CC’s Sarah Yardley, preaching earlier this year.
Those who are wondering about the Calvary Chapel Association’s announcement of a split from CC Costa Mesa and its pastor, Brian Brodersen, must understand that this has been coming for several years now.
For instance, one of the many reasons that Calvary Chapel pastors were upset about the new direction taken by Brian Brodersen and others is the advent of women teachers in the pulpit.
Traditionally CC doctrinal distinctives have held to the teaching from Paul: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man,” in 1 Timothy 1:12.
Here is Sarah Yardley, preaching at the 2016 Calvary Chapel Missions Conference in California in January. She’s not just telling stories from the mission field, she is teaching God’s Word to men. And not only is she teaching them, she is telling them about her 33 personal prophecies she received directly from God Himself. (37:39) She wrote them in her Bible. One of them was that God made her life like glitter, and He was going to send that glitter out. Another was that there would be a wave of destructive emotion that would overwhelm her and that Jesus would stand with her and keep it from destroying her. “When God gives us a prophetic Word to carry, he doesn’t remove the painful things that come, but says ‘My presence goes with you.'”
Pastors were also alarmed when Brian’s wife Cheryl (Founder Chuck Smith’s daughter), taught Scripture to men at CreationFest 2015:
Of course, there were many other signs that a split was coming. Here are a few more related articles:
Pattern of concern:
- Calvary Chapel: Another Wave Of The Spirit Or A Wave Of Deception?
- Calvary Chapel’s Brian Brodersen instructs pastors to “Tone it down” for youth
- The Calvary Chapel Movement and the Sinking of the Titanic
- Calvary Chapel’s Brian Brodersen: His Influence and control
- Fed up with false teaching: Calvary Chapel church says “So Long” to the CC Association.
- Greg Laurie, Calvary Chapel, and New Catholic National Shrine for Marian Apparitions
- Calvary Chapel Leader Exhibiting Cult-Like Mentality
- Calvary Chapel, Bill Hybels, and Jesuit Mysticism
- Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa Pastor, Brian Brodersen, Says Sometimes It’s OK to Attend a Homosexual Wedding
- Connecting the NAR dots: Gumbel, Brodersen and the Neo-Calvary emergence
- Brian Brodersen and Greg Laurie’s “Big Picture of Christianity”
- Greg Laurie and the SBC: “Surely Becoming Charismatic”
In all apostasy it seems this always comes to fruition. It is not that women have nothing valuable to say. I mean, look at our hosts Amy and Marsha as examples of that. It’s just that as Paul taught, there is never a time a woman is to usurp authority over a man in the church. No exceptions.
When they are allowed in this position the apostasy of that group has usually become very clear already.
Blessings:-}
This is 2016!!!!!!!!!!! It isn’t apostasy to support women being strong even as a pastor! WAKE UP PEOPLE! I’ve been away from CCCM many years.. but the idea that women must always be submisive is nothing more than CRAP! NO MORE! Seems like more of a cult to me if its willing to keep women suppressed. Now it makes sense to me why when my marriage needed help back in 1985 that all I was ever told was that I must submit to my husband! I never went to another church counselor again. This idea that women do not belong in the pulpit is just plain crap! So out of date for today 2016. White Christian men don’t know everything. White Christian men are not better than everyone else. They are just men just like other men. They need to get down off of their high horse and quit trying to control everything and everyone with their holier than thou attitudes and get real.
Joanne,
Either what the Bible teaches us matters today as it always has since God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, or it doesn’t. It’s plain to see what you think of what the Bible teaches. But, for the true Christian the Bible is the final court of arbitration regarding any theological discussion. And for real life questions like this one too.
spoken like someone in a cult. There are many bible teaching churches out there that are very inclusive and it really is such a disappointment to see CC as more of a cult today. Really sad. It is 2016 NOT biblical times. There is a stark difference in culture and times. Are you teaching people that they will go to hell unless they interpret the bible exactly like YOU PEOPLE are preaching it?
Joanne,
There is one way to heaven and that is through faith in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus said
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” John14:6
And He also said this “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:….” Mt.7:21-24
Do you even know what that will is?
So if I were you I would quit interpreting the scriptures through a “modern” filter, and believe what the scriptures have always said. Read it for yourself and believe what the Holy Spirit tells you. Because it is He that leads Christians in the truth.
And definitely not modern culture.
Joanne I for one am pleased to see these changes. I’m not exactly sure why the woman being “easily deceived” would prevent them from teaching the bible. Theres not one person that could argue that when Cheryl, for example, teaches that shes not being biblical with what is taught. Ive listened to MANY studies from Cheryl and they rival her moms and her dads teaching. She is truly gifted and in fact there are already many men that love to hear her teach.
Its pretty clear that the men posting here want to dismiss her because shes a woman, not because shes an incompetent bible teacher.
Hi Amy, just wondering if you’ve ever read this article by President Jimmy Carter? I’ve put a link here. I have always considered him to be one of the most honorable and real men ever. http://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/04/jimmy-carter-losing-my-religion-for-equality/
you have a HARD heart , sorry to say! JIMMY CARTER HAS BEEN ONE OF THOSE RARE CHRISTIANS WHO LIVES HIS FAITH EVERYDAY!!! YOU are the one who will have to answer to God for such hatred!! I can’t believe how some of the so called Christian churches are like the cults I learned about so many years ago!! Listen to yourself!!! Unbelievable!
It’s not white Christian men, it’s God who lays down the law, if you don’t like it, don’t blame man, ask God why He says it is to be so. And Ed is correct, God’s word is everlasting. Everyone today wants to mold God to fit their pet peeves. For a Christian the bible is the final word, not a counselor, not a pastor and not a committee.
Manny, I suppose you also believe in the stoning of women?? Let’s be literal! You are so brainwashed into being so superior to women that you can’t fathom a woman being as smart or as Christ-like as your superior self. Shame on you!! Grow up and get over yourself, sir! I’ve been around longer than you I’m pretty sure and I can tell you that men are not always the smartest or the wisest. You’re just men like women are just women. You, sir, are not better or wiser than women just because you’re a man so get over your superiority complex and grow up. Men who are secure in themselves don’t need to prove to anyone that they are. I’m fed up with those who still think they are the God-given leader of their roost and that the woman walks 3 steps behind instead of shoulder to shoulder. There is no reason for such arrogance in today’s world. Sorry to break it to you with sensitive egos…but you don’t know everything. And you’re wrong when it comes to Christian women and your interpretation. God’s words are good and unfortunately, they have been butchered over and over again by man to sooth their own egos. Manny, it’s men who have twisted Gods word to keep women in line. They have done it for decades, centuries, to keep blacks in line, they are still doing today to keep anyone who doesn’t fit in their little tiny mold out! Thank God that not all Christian denominations are as ignorant as you seem to imply. You don’t fool anyone, least of all, another Christian. Yes, another Christian. It’s extremely disappointing to witness it happening today. I can say that I am extremely disheartened by the kind of Christianity I see being practiced. Not inclusive and still trying to keep women down as well as blacks and even LGBT. It’s caused me to become more of an advocate for those who are being marginalized because of people like YOU. Grow up!!! OPEN YOUR EYES GOD is BIGGER than you and your small minded attitude toward those people like you see as inferior to your superior self. GROW UP AND GET REAL. YOU’RE NO BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE
Wait, I am not white but believe in God’s words.
Jung, I am white and a woman and guess what? I believe in Gods words but I don’t have faith or believe in some of mans interpretations of Gods words! There are many under the banner of Christianity and if I have to chose , then I’ll pick a church who chooses to be inclusive as opposed to exclusive. At the end of the day, God knows MY HEART and I have complete faith that HE can decifer my true belief in his promise and because of that faith of a mustard seed, I am saved. Not all white men are narrow minded bigots. But , many so Christian men seem to lean that way and it’s rediculous. We are all Gods children no matter what gender or color or sexual orientation one is. People need to grow up and think for yourself and question your pastors about what is meant by Gods words and basically call them out when they speak and teach about certain people as being inferior, whether it is a woman, or a man or woman of color or another race or someone who happens to be LGBT. This is where some of the hate is being learned people! Right in our churches. It has to stop!! WAKE UP
Joan,
You’re one angry, militant, confused person. You “abhor” judgement yet you’re the first to make assumptions and throw stones, that’s hypocritical. You’re a very liberal angry person that has a problem with scripture and what the apostles wrote, symptomatic of what the false church has become…..? The don’t judge paradigm you so vociferously argue for stands squarely against what the Bible says. Homosexuality is a sin no matter how rosy you try to paint it. You also seem to have a problem with Christian men, or just men in general. Madam the one the needs to get over herself is you. This is not about you or women this is about a simple reading of the Bible. You don’t like hat scripture says because it does not fit with your ungodly, liberal, world view! So my advice to you is, instead of bloviating false assumptions and spreading innuendos, do yourself a favo, ask God for forgiveness and read your Bible. You have to get over your hate of men. Jesus is a Man and God is our Father, I hope that doesn’t irk you! God bless and hope you get yourself under control!
Excuse me but you are making an assumption about a woman who dares to question interpretations of the bible. So, let me get this straight…if I dare to question and also disagree with exclusive interpretations of the bible written by men, that means I hate men? You just don’t get it. Has nothing to do with men per say…but I can tell you that just because a man tells me something doesn’t mean I have to agree with him or submit to his opinion just because he thinks he’s right and I’m wrong. However, you sound like a man who may be a little full of himself and is trying to put me in my place because maybe you think women should be seen but not heard??? Is that it? Maybe you need to do a self check of yourself.
this is not spam. it is an artical I find very interesting by our President Jimmy Carter and he wrote it in 2009.
[[THIS ARTICLE HAS BEEN REMOVED. WE WILL NOT BE PROMOTING THE UNBIBLICAL VIEWS OF PRESIDENT CARTER HERE.]]
You, Joanne are rebellious and full of pride, you will stand before God for these abominations. Repent and submit to the biblically ordained hierarchy. Your SJW, racist garbage has got to go, it is repugnant to truth plus completely seditious Traitors talk like you. I do not expect you to relent though, so a Proverbial Helicopter ride might be necessary for you, sadly. You are why the church is apostate. Being unAmerican is disgusting. Patriotism and True faith go hand in hand.
Women should be silent in the Church. This is going against the Bible. This is demonic.
Wow…quite a few satanic comments on here. Little demons arguing how good and right it is to reject Gods Word. The Bible says a woman is not to teach or have authority over the men in Churches. Those who are part of the prophesied falling away and rebellion are saying it is good to reject Gods Word. The spirit of Antichrist is thriving and it is very obvious by reading the apostate comments on here. In essence…these people who reject the scriptures are not Christians at all. If they were….they would stand on and for the scriptures….not in opposition to them. Itching ears and demonic spirits of rebellion have taken over the Church. The age of Antichrist is at the doors….and is already here.
If any need clarification on Women in leadership over Men in the church. The ? raised in scripture. It was EVE who was first decieved then ADAM when addressing the first ERROR / SIN / TRANSGRESSION???? . How did GOD address them all including The DEVIL . Who now was their lord GOD or the DEVIL. THe first prophecy on CHRIST determined arrival and dominion and victory over the 2 seeds carnall /spiritual. . SARAH ? ABRAHAM. addressing him as LORD.an example to modern days women in the CHURCH. Please read prov31 about the VIRTIOUS WOMAN and her role in raising her HUSBAND to sit in the company of the ELDERS of the city gates. .Just 1 more Queen VASTHI was taken from her position as QUEEN and given to ESTER a pagan nation dealing with I believe the first WOMAN libber.. SARAH allowing HAGAR to raise up a seed to her. DEBORAH a judge of ISRAEL still needed a man to go into battel with her the LORDS BATTEL NOT OURS.. So many examples of WOMEN used by GOD for his WILL. Now many will say i am MALE CHAUVENISTIC here but the SCRIPTURES are applied to many situations showing you could say CONTRARY in many points of contex. BUT in the letters who is the HEAD CHRIST / the MAN / then the WOMAN. IT was in the BEGGINING so will it be at the end mt24. For many will come in my NAME decieving many Women with ITCHING EARS so also with MEN having a FORM OF GOD but denying the POWER. Gods word is not going to CHANGE FOR ANYBODY. Where he sends his WORD it will not return VOID unto him it will do what he SENT IT TO DO . Also the APOSTACY in the last days there will come first a GREAT FALLING AWAY. Then the son of PERDITION shall be REVEALED. Hey just like in the GARDEN GOD dealt with it so also NOW.As DAVID said SELAH. EVE was taken from MAN for GODS PURPOSE. Then MAN came from EVE. Who was in control. then?????????
It was only Eve that was deceived. “And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” 1Tim.2:14
“Who was in control. then?????????” God.
Blessings:-}
If what you are saying is true then Adam committed the greater sin for despite knowing the truth he STILL sinned against God whereas Eve being deceived did not fully grasp the truth.
You just shot yourself in your Exegetical foot.
“If you want to enter life, keep the commandments”
-Jesus
snooop1e,
How does that make Adam’s sin greater than Eve’s? “Exegetically” I mean.
great reply to superior Edwitness. I hate constantly being hit with the reality of how superior so called Christian men really see themselves. Somehow I thought it might get better after 50 years of such attitudes.. But I guess that was expecting too much. It’s too bad.. Another generation of hate filled teachings of bigotry and superiority. That is not true Christianity. I’ve known real Christian men who honor all kinds of people and backgrounds who don’t waste time pointing out their own superior selves over others they consider lesser and it doesn’t include people with YOUR attitude towards women.
This brings up something I have been thinking about lately. It’s (been) almost a given, in CC and other churches, that it was okay for women to teach other women and children at church, bible studies, etc., but not allowed to teach men or be in a position of authority over men in church, bible studies, etc., and I have accepted that understanding or position.
1 Timothy 2:11-15 (NASB) – reads –
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
The accepted understanding of these verses has been that a) women are not allowed to teach or exercise authority over men, and b) women are more easily deceived than men.
If women being more easily deceived than men is the correct meaning and is one of the two reasons (vs 13 & 14) given for not allowing women to teach (preach, exposit scripture) would it make sense for women to teach (preach, exposit scripture) women?
Why would it be okay for the more easily deceived to teach the more easily deceived?
Wouldn’t that be even more dangerous?
And wouldn’t that make vs 12 two subjects, 1) I do not allow women to teach (preach or exposit scripture) – nor – 2) do I allow them to exercise authority over men.
Titus 2:3-5 encourages older women to teach younger women “to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored.” Which lines up with 1 Timothy 2:15 “But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. But Titus 2 does not encourage preaching or expositing scripture.”
Iv’e been thinking that many have taken this verse in Titus 2 and mixed it with other verses on the topic to start women’s bible studies, etc.
Should women teach (preach, exposit scripture)?
I know the egalitarian views so I am not really looking for thoughts from that point of view but are there any thoughts from the traditional view that CC and others have held?
Q, these are good questions. I’m of the persuasion that Paul was speaking in the context of the church assembly, so that women are not allowed to teach in that setting due to men being present. A woman must not force a man to either sit under her authority or have to leave the assembly.
But then we see that Priscilla took the lead in teaching Apollos. Notice that this was not in a church assembly but seems to be in private, in the home of Aquila and Priscilla.
Given these Scriptures, it would seem that Paul’s command to not allow female teachers in the church assemblies is not necessarily because they are more subject to deception and, therefore, “ignorant,” but because Eve was the one who transgressed God’s command in the Garden, thus leading to women being subjected to men, in general. It is a position to which women have been assigned (Genesis 3:16), just as the man is subject to the cursed ground (Genesis 3:17), having to toil.
berlorac,
Good point about church setting vs home setting discussion.
My point wasn’t that women or more “ignorant” but being more susceptible to being deceived to false teaching, maybe through their emotions and their for shouldn’t exposit scripture in an official setting?
The bible says women can prophecy but that would’t be them teaching but God speaking through them and women can pray but then again that’s not teaching.
Q, yeah, I didn’t mean “ignorant” as in “stupid,” but ignorant of the truths of God. I don’t see where women are not able to know and understand and exposit the Word, but that they are assigned to the role of subservience due to Eve’s sin.
Your point about prophecy bears that out, I think. Women were used of God to speak forth His Word, but were not permitted to be pastor-teachers. Speaking the Word is not necessarily a usurpation of a man’s authority. A pastor is never a pastor alone, but a pastor-teacher. The Greek in Ephesians 4:11 will show this. The assemblies are to be headed by pastor-teachers, but women cannot be “over” men; thus, they cannot be pastor-teachers.
Paul says women are not “to teach, nor have dominion over a man…” Does he mean women are not to teach at all, nor have dominion over a man? Or, does he mean women are not to teach men, nor have dominion over men? I think the latter, given the context, which is the order of the assemblies that are populated by men.
Your reference to women being more susceptible to deception is well taken, but I’m noticing that these women are those who are “silly,” and “laden with sins” (2 Timothy 3:6). Does this mean that all women are silly and laden with sins and are therefore easily deceived? Or, does this mean that silly women laden with sins are those who are easily deceived? That latter, of course.
Good discussion, Q.
berlorac,
Thanks for the discussion.
Iv’e got your point about women not being able to teach or have authority over man because you believe it’s part of the curse, egalitarians would argue that and would say it no longer applies after Christ i.e., restored to pre-fall. This is not correct.
Also the silly women do not come to an understanding of the truth so of course they would be excluded from teaching etc., and would not need to be mentioned in this context.
I think there is more to it and perhaps because women are more easily deceived and that forbids them from teaching. Paul gave two reasons 1) Adam was created before Eve (before sin and the curse) and 2) Eve was deceived, not Adam.
And if pastor and teacher are the same person in verse 11 then by the same grammar rule so are apostles and prophets in Ephesians 2:20.
Q, I don’t see the egalitarian argument, i.e., restored to pre-fall because we are now post-cross. Instead, I agree with you that Paul gives those two reasons. 1) Adam was created before Eve. And 2) Paul says that the consequence of Eve’s sin is still in force.
But again, this rule is cited in the context of the assemblies, so far as teaching goes. It would seem that if Apollos was pleased to receive teaching from Priscilla in a private setting, then that was between them and God. In fact, God is the one who set up the meeting.
As to the construction of pastors and teachers in Ephesians 4:11, see also 1 Timothy 3:2, where the bishop (pastor, elder) must be able to teach. But there is no thought that all who have the gift of teaching must pastor. In Ephesians 2:20, we see the exact same Greek construction. All apostles were prophets, but not all prophets were apostles.
berlorac,
I agree with the context of assembly…
I also agree you can have the gift of teaching without being a pastor.
Pastor appears to also be a gift, elder appears to be an office with qualifications.
berlorac,
“And 2) Paul says that the consequence of Eve’s sin is still in force.”
No, I said – “2) Eve was deceived, not Adam.”
Paul said – “And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.”
berlorac, I understand your position.
Again if women being more easily deceived is the reason that Paul does not allow them to teach then why would it be okay to teach women…in an assembly or official position.
Why let the more easily deceived teach the more easily deceived?
Anyone?
Amen Q,
I think you have nailed it.
Blessings:-}
Q, I agree with you that Eve was deceived; therefore, women are disqualified from teaching in the assemblies. My statement about the consequence of Eve being deceived is that women are disqualified from teaching in the assemblies; that is, this position to which God has placed the woman is still in force, not having been changed post-cross.
It seems that you are inferring from 1 Timothy 2:14 that all women are more easily deceived, therefore no women are allowed to teach, period. But Paul doesn’t say that. Again, he’s talking about a woman’s position in relation to men in the assemblies. You do state this, but you also say that because women are more easily deceived then they shouldn’t be teaching other women, presumably in any setting.
I agree that it is rare that a woman can properly exegete the Scriptures and I don’t think that the churches should automatically have “women’s ministries” in which women are encouraged to become teachers and lead Bible studies. This has so often led to disaster. But given that Priscilla had the gift of teaching, I think we have to be aware that God has made exceptions. Not in the assemblies, of course, but in other settings. If I am incorrect in this, then it would be hypocritical to keep coming to this blog to read Marsha’s teachings.
Q, I think we both agree that some women were given the gift of prophecy. I see this as the same thing as the teaching. Some women were given the gift of teaching (apparently Priscilla), and some had the gift of prophecy, but they weren’t allowed to use those gifts in the assemblies. I believe this is due to the position to which they have been assigned by God, not necessarily because they are more easily deceived. Otherwise, why would God have given these gifts to women at all? “Ladies, I’ve given you these gifts but you can never use them because you are all so easily deceived.” Hmm… No, from the context, it would seem that these gifts are/were to be used in the proper setting; that is, not in the assemblies where men are present.
If women shouldn’t be teaching women because women are more easily deceived, then what was the use of the gifts given to women?? I suppose they could teach their husbands at home, if the husbands are willing. Otherwise, they could teach other women and/or children.
Thanks for the discussion, Q.
berlorac,
We agree that women should not teach in a public assembly where men are present, I’m implying they should not teach in a public assembly at all. That women should not teach in a public meeting – And – a woman should not have authority over a man.
Okay, we can agree that in public meetings a woman is to learn in silence with all submission and that this is consistent with the rest of scripture?
(1 Timothy 2 11; 1 Corinthians 11: 3-15; 1 Corinthians 14: 34-35)
When Paul say “I do not allow a woman to teach” it is inspired of God and it means in a public meeting or assembly (what we call church)?
So women should not seek to have a public teaching ministry in the church?
Today we have a lot of church meetings so their is a program for everyone and one of those church meetings is women’s bible study, many times with a women teacher.
Now if people are having a public meeting to hear teaching, why would it be okay for a women to teach just because the meeting is all women?
Now Paul gives two reasons a woman should not teach in public meetings. The first reason, “Adam was formed first, then Eve”. So the order of the creation was significant, by God creating Adam first he intended him to be the one to exercise direction and Eve to be in submission.
The second reason proves the first, Eve didn’t seek direction but was deceived and transgressed, Adam was not deceived. That is probably why cults visit homes when women are more likely to be home alone.
If Paul meant women should not teach because they are more easily deceived it would be consistent with the above.
Women should not seek to teach in public meetings even if it is all women assembling. That would certainly fix the whole Beth Moore, Joyce Meyer, Christine Cain, Priscilla Shirer, et al., problem.
This is what I have been considering lately…
Thoughts anyone?
Q,
I agree with all that you said and the reasons/scriptures you gave for believing them. The scripture is clear on this subject if you believe it literally. Something I strive for as much as possible.
Blessings:-}
Thanks for the discussion berlorac and your thoughts Edwitness,
berlorac had a good point about the gift of teaching e.g., how would a women practice that gift outside the assembly?
Perhaps the gift of teaching to women would not be to exposit scripture in the assembly but to teach younger women to “love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored”.?
I can’t think of a solid public woman teacher?
Assemblies of God went with the idea of gifting rather than scripture and ended up ordaining women based on what they perceived as a gift. This is also the argument from Christian feminism (perceived gifting).
Also berlorac made a good point about the women running this blog… This isn’t an official assembly yet it is public…is it okay because it’s main purpose isn’t to worship but discuss?
Q,
The scripture emphasizes the point of not usurping authority over the man. For me this is the defining factor for determining if the scripture is being adhered to.
The only teaching that women are instructed to do in scripture is in Titus2:3-5,
“The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.”
Acts18:26; This verse in Acts gives the biblical example of Priscilla who, along with her husband Aquila, explained the doctrine of Christian baptism to Apollos. As far as I can see, there is no reason to believe that Priscilla is usurping authority over Apollos or her husband.
I also see no attempt from the women here to do anything but share Biblical views about the apostasy going on in the church today. Many of these articles come from other writers. I have nothing but respect for the way Amy and Marsha manage this site. As I’m sure you do as well.
Blessings:-}
Thoughts ^^^ anyone?
Amy, Marsha?
Thanks Edwitness for your reply.
Yes I respect Amy and Marsha. I’m sorry if it came off differently.
I was hoping to get their understanding on the subject and thread as well as others.
I’d like to sign this with – Blessings – but the greater blesses the lesser and I don’t want to presume.
That probably came off wrong too. 🙁
Q,
My respect for Amy and Marsha statement was not a reflection of something you said. It was just a comment that I thought applied in this context. You conveyed no disrespect as far as I could tell. And it has been interesting reading your conversation with berlorac. You both made some very good points and covered the topic quite well.
Blessings:-}
Hey guys, I appreciate the respect with which you’ve both addressed the subject.
Edwitness, you said, [I also see no attempt from the women here to do anything but share Biblical views about the apostasy going on in the church today.]
I agree that this is what occurs most often, and many times these are merely links to other articles. However, even those links sometimes direct to women teachers, such as Michelle Lesley and others. These are often exegetical in nature. Also, Marsha sometimes posts her own teachings and these are sometimes more lengthy expositions of Scripture.
I don’t have a problem with this because I don’t see this as usurping a man’s authority. This isn’t an assembly. We can’t extrapolate Paul’s teaching on the order of assemblies to what we have today, like blogs. But if you feel that Paul’s teaching to Timothy includes the idea that women are more easily deceived and, therefore, should not teach (at all), then it would be hypocritical to continue to partake of this blog. This is not meant to be disrespectful to you, but I can’t help but feel that if you are so strongly opposed to women teachers, you probably need to reconcile this issue between you and God in light of your participation here. I mean, either rebuke the ladies here or not, but at least be consistent.
Berlorac,
Do you think that these women sharing here is usurping authority over a man? I don’t. That is the context, at least as I understand it, that would place them in the wrong. Are they writing their thoughts and sharing here with anyone who wants to read them? Or teaching from a position of authority those who read them, and exercising authority over them?
All the instruction Paul gave regarding this subject is to be considered when making a decision about this. And when you put them all together the issue that is paramount is authority.
Is Amy or Marsha exercising authority over you when she tells what she knows about the apostasy that is happening in the church today? I certainly don’t see it that way. In fact, in this comment stream we have great latitude in our agreement and disagreement with what they have written. Try that in a church you attend. You will be out before you know what happened.
Could the women who own this site ask someone to leave if they chose to? Sure they could. But, that is the result of the fact that they own this site. Much like their house they might own. If they asked you to leave their home you would surely go without giving one seconds thought to her usurping authority. Because it is her house.
This site, and any other for that matter, is in my view then consistent with what the scripture says about women and usurping authority over the man through teaching. I have no king but King Jesus. I answer to Him.
But, it seems that you do have an issue with them in this. So it seems it is you that should discover if your remaining here is right in God’s eyes. You have read my understanding of it. Not a problem.
Blessings:-}
Edwitness,
Q said, [If Paul meant women should not teach because they are more easily deceived it would be consistent with the above.
Women should not seek to teach in public meetings even if it is all women assembling.]
Then, you said, [Q, I agree with all that you said and the reasons/scriptures you gave for believing them.]
Ed, that sounded to me like you were agreeing with Q that women should not have a public teaching platform. If that’s not what you were agreeing to, then maybe you should re-phrase your response to Q.
My contention all along has been that women were given gifts of teaching and prophecy and, while Q and I agreed that the exercise of these gifts does not extend to the church assemblies (where men are present), we disagreed when considering other avenues of teaching. Q seems to think that women should not engage in any public teaching, while I believe that if women were given the gift of prophecy (speaking forth the Word of God) and teaching, then there needed to be an avenue to exercise those gifts (apart from the assemblies). When you agreed with Q, I took that to mean that you did, indeed, agree with Q.
It’s really very simple,
women should not teach or have authority over men and should remain silent in church BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO.
It’s just that simple, all of this discussion and analysis of the scriptures is silly. It is so because God said it is so,period. There is nothing to discuss.
It’s only pride that seeks an explanation from God. God owes no explanation to anyone. A true Christian needs no explanation from God, the mere fact that God said it is explanation enough.
All of you Protest-ants keep Protesting and see where it lands you…as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
“If you want to enter life, keep the commandments”
-Jesus
who interpreted that scripture?? and how many centuries ago?? or today?? I see you must be one of those non protestants. That is really the height of ignorance. Did you knowthat there are bible colleges that teach budding pastors and at a certain point they are faced with picking a denomination , if you will, to specialize in. When I found that out I had to laugh. When are people going to wake uprealize how much time they waste in bashing other denominations who have different customs within their style of worship and preaching. So what!! get over it. I cling to John 3:16 the rest of those complaining need to just concentrate on their own journey and quit sqawshing those who question and seek answers . Otherwise , you’re no better than a cult.
The issue is not is a woman teaches, it is if she has removed herself out from under the headship of a man that makes her unfit to teach other women and children. Indeed she should be teaching others how to live underneath that headship, much like a man that has not submitted to the lordship of Christ is unfit to teach in public setting.
Of 1 Timothy 2:11-15 J. Vernon McGee says: These verses have to do with the learning and teaching doctrine. Keep in mind that the women led in the mystery religions of Paul’s day, and were sex orgies. Paul is cautioning women not to speak publicly with the idea of making an appeal on the basis of sex. Paul strictly forbade women to speak in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14:34. It was the sin of Eve that brought sin into the world. Now every time a woman bears a child, she brings a sinner into the world-that is all she can bring into the world. But Mary brought the Savior into the world. Don’t ever say that woman brought sin into the world, unless you are prepared to add that woman also brought the Savior into the world. MY friend, no man provided a Savior: A woman did. However each individual woman is saved by faith. She is to grow in love and holiness just as a man is. My comment is this: It’s the men who are allowing the Jezebel’s to infiltrate the church! And, on the far opposite scale treating women like they are beneath them, servant slaves such as in the cults and in homes by abusive men who demand obedience to them. Just sayin’.
Hi thanks for your JUST SAYING comment. Yes the the position of the created man was to watch over the helpmate WOMAN /WOMB of MAN.. Yes today has a problem in role plays in the church and watching for the JEZEBEL spirit which SEPERATES. Thus always causing confusion so it was in the GARDEN between the man / woman ? who gave them the nudge the accuser which showed up. All the transgressors the 3 of them GODS presence made the DIFFERENCE and he had to deal with it there in the garden all pointing the finger at each other. .So now the Woman was going to bear CHILDREN for GODS plan of REEDEMPTION for all the living souls of mankind the woman now had a example of headship as long as both were SUBMISSIVE to GOD and his PLAN for a SAVIOUR coming from the WOMAN .2 seeds in the garden 1 was going to bruise his head 1 his heel. Did not CHRIST say we would have POWER over the ENEMY our feet shed with the GOSPEL. How beautifull are the FEET of them who bring the GOSPEL. CHRIST died for us leaving us the EXAMPLE for husbands / wives. HIM being the HEAD over the CHURCH paul said this was a mystery. HUSBANDS / WIVES . If you read pr31 on the VIRTIOUS WOMAN and her role in raising her family++++++++++ many other roles especcially paising her husband to sit with the ELDERS at the city GATE for protection of all therin. A very GOOD ex after the fall in the GARDEN hey. Women do have a part in the CHURCH thank GOD for that . The man should LORD over GODS INHERITANCE nor have DOMINION over their FAITH .BBBBUUUTTT be helpers of there JOY . THY KINGDOM COME LORD. We are paitently waiting LORD .Thank you for the COMFORTER. P. T. L . SELAH. SHALOM to all who call on EMMANUEL / CHRIST / MESSIAH our SAVIOUR.and REEDEEMER.
Nannette –
Interesting… “Mary brought the Savior into the world” and “woman also brought the Savior into the world” and “no man provided a Savior: A woman did.”
Silly me! all this time I was lead to believe that it was God who provided the savior, using Mary as His tool in the same way He used people like Noah, Jonah, Abraham, Moses, Rebecca, Peter, John and Paul to do His bidding on earth.
If you believe that the bible is truly God’s word you wouldn’t be saying things like this because it’s abundantly clear in Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through ONE MAN, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because ALL SINNED
(Emphasis mine) and the word man here in Greek was anthrōpos which means “human being” not man and not woman. In other words, all of us, blame wasn’t assigned to Adam or Eve, but to God’s greatest creation, mankind.
You are right when you said “It’s the men who are allowing the Jezebel’s to infiltrate the church!” Truest statement you made. the following sentence however is a bit off the scales, unless you’re talking about the religion of peace.
The roles of men and women in the church are clearly defined in God’s word as a prayerful and thoughtful study of the subject will show. People like Brian Brodersen and Tony Campolo believe that it’s correct to put God’s word in the context of what they believe the times to be, even though neither is a student of history. I personally believe that the word of God is to be put in the context of the word of God. And as Dr. John MacArthur says “I’m not God’s editor”
Douglas, Of course GOD brought the Savior, Jesus is God, but He used Mary who is not His mother, but the vessel. Don’t get the idea I was elevating women. I was not. McGee’s point was how men treat woman, that is what I was getting at. I’m a business woman, I know what I’m talking about in that field of how men treat women. On the other hand women have elevated themselves above men which is a travesty. I guess you could call it women’s lib or Jezebel.
oh my gosh!! Here is a perfect example of brainwashing and men making sure this woman is not elevating themselves above men??????? are you kidding me??????????? Nannette, I find that a travesty!
who interpreted that scripture?? and how many centuries ago?? or today?? I see you must be one of those non protestants. That is really the height of ignorance. Did you knowthat there are bible colleges that teach budding pastors and at a certain point they are faced with picking a denomination , if you will, to specialize in. When I found that out I had to laugh. When are people going to wake uprealize how much time they waste in bashing other denominations who have different customs within their style of worship and preaching? So what!! get over it. I cling to John 3:16 the rest of those complaining need to just concentrate on their own journey and quit squashing those who question and seek answers. Otherwise, you’re no better than a cult.
So now the scriptures are null and void, men’s and women’s opinions overule God’s Word doomed.
It’s called Protesting, that’s how Protestant- ism was born
Ignoring 1 Timothy 1:12 is bad enough, but this woman flaunts Proverbs 30:5-6, but The Church of Brodersen wouldn’t know that part, Brian has banned the Old Testament from his goat pen
To the Law and to the Testimony. Isaiah 8-20
Grace is grace but not license to do what you feel is right,
feelings will always fool you.
Sorry you feel that way
And you are a blessing too Amy/Marsha.
And blessings:-} to you
Keep up the good work 😀
i see that you’re ok with Amys posting since she has made sure to distinquish herself as a reporter and not a teacher over men! How arrogant can you men be that you would let a woman believe that YOU are BETTER and WISER than she??? Disgusting…. just disgusting
You can read an article showing CC’s views on this by Sandy Adams on the Calvary Chapel Association website, calvarychapelassociation.com under From the Council and one by David Guzik on calvarychapel.com under Articles and I am sure you can pick Calvary pastor’s and listen to their teachings on this to obtain the viewpoints held by Calvary.
Why read unbiblical sources when you can go straight to the Bible? Also it’s rather ironic that CO’S website has a woman teaching people about the biblical command against women being teachers. Just saying.
Snoop1e, This was a reply to the one asking what Calvary’s stance was about women preaching. The stance that I am aware of within the majority of CC is in line with the Bible hence the reference to the articles.
Silence woman! 🙂
Thanks for your reply.
If you look at ceremonies of homosexual ‘marriages’ you’ll notice 99% are presided over by females. The heart of a mother leans extraordinarily toward grace – even grace that violates God’s law; hence the ‘easily deceived’ part.
There is no such thing as “grace that violates God’s law” God is the origin of all Grace. God cannot violate Himself.
P.S. If salvation is by “faith alone” doesn’t God overlook/forgive/ignore incorrect doctrines and works? If not then salvation requires BOTH faith and correct doctrines/works. Which is it? Can’t have it both ways. Why are ALL heterosexual sins (including future sins) covered by belief in Jesus alone but a homosexual who accepts Jesus must also abstain from sin? That is contradictory.
For example when a heterosexual Christian uses drugs and/or surgery to reverse the way God made them for the sole purpose of engaging in sterile sex that will not result in conception Protestants agree that is acceptable to God BUT if a homosexual uses drugs and/or surgery to reverse the way that God made them for the sole purpose of engaging in sterile sex – that will not result in conception those same Protestants condemn the homosexual.
Both the heterosexual and the homosexual are doing the exact same thing but the heterosexual is still “saved by his/her faith alone while the homosexual is not. Hypocrisy.
“If you want to enter life, keep the commandments”
-Jesus
snooop1e,
“If salvation is by “faith alone” doesn’t God overlook/forgive/ignore incorrect doctrines and works?”
YES!!
Romans4:15- “Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
And Paul taught in Rom.2:15
“Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;”
And
“If you want to enter life, keep the commandments” Said Jesus to the Isreaelite for only Israelites to keep because only they were given the law.
Grace: unmerited, unearned, undeserved favor.. you know, like Jesus on the cross? I’m sure you will let him know how his grace is a violation of Gods law.
I’m sure most of you read your bible once, and now, because youre a man, you think youre an expert.
I see nothing wrong with one missionary (weather femal or male) speaking to a gathering of other missionaries. This is not a church service. The congregation is not present. This is clearly a meeting of missionaries. Yes, they are holding their meeting in the sanctuary of a church. Would there be the same criticism if they had held their meeting outside?
I know Sarah and I know her family. Sarah is a very Godly woman. She is doing an amazing work (by the Holy Spirit) over seas. She is the same person in this video as she is in person. There is nothing fake about her. She has a real love for the lost. God is doing an incredible work through her life. It really is okay for her to share with others. It’s a shame for someone to try to use her, talking to and sharing with other missionaries, as an example of breaking God’s law. I really hope she dosn’t see this. Please prayfuly consider taking her off your list of grievances you hold against Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa.
How is a woman who is violating a clear command of God in Scripture a “Godly” woman?
I suppose we should put aside God’s words in Scripture and trust your words instead huh?
Jesus said that people will cast out demons and do miracles in His name despite the fact that they NEVER truly knew Him and they will be cast into the eternal fire.
Just because God’s will is done DESPITE a person’s sinfulness does not in any way nullify God’s commands or mean we can accept sin in the body of Christ and knowingly reject God’s clear teachings in the Bible.
“If you want to enter life, keep the commandments”
-Jesus
P.S. John Wayne Gaycee made a lot of kids happy by being a clown at birthday parties but he also killed 30 boys and buried them beneath his home. Should the authorities have ignored all of the murders that he committed because he made a lot of kids smile along the way?
Wow and you see nothing wrong with drawing an equivalency to women teaching and a mass murderer? smh
are you kidding me????????? Unbelievable.. just unbelievable! and You think you such a comparison is valid???????????? You are unbelievably stupid Snooop1e. I cannot believe you even made such a comparison about Women and John Wayne Gaycee.
This whole argument is part of the reason why the church is becoming a laughingstock. Going at each others throats over something not central to the Gospel, rather than uniting over the core stuff and going after the gates of hell together as one body with Christ as our head. Truly shameful here.
This whole argument is part of the reason why the church is becoming a laughingstock. Going at each others throats over something not central to the Gospel, rather than uniting over the core stuff and going after the gates of hell together as one body with Christ as our head. Truly shameful and fruitless here.
I would like to say that the head of Jesus is God and the head of man is Jesus and the head of women is man. There’s a big difference. Everyone has a role for them and it’s clearly outlined in the Bible. When we go outside those roles we enter into trouble. It’s not complicated. The main question is, are you spending time with Jesus. Listen to Hanswaldvogel sermons at Hanswaldvogel.com. Thanks,Will
Gosh, I am shocked, it will lead to disarray. I am speaking as an ex female senior pastor. Sticking a woman in a pulpit, as a pastor is a bad idea.
I used to attend a cc Fellowship, left, then went back it was under the leadership of another couple, very kind and decent people. However he let this woman become an assistant pastor, I know this woman, gosh what a disaster. She was running the fellowship trying to tell me what to believe, trying to run my life. I only attended a couple of meetings.
However she would get up in the middle of the service and spout utter nonsense.
you know Mrs Clark, I attended CC for a few years and the one I attended had a make preacher that did the same thing you claim a female preacher did!! So, since you witnessed this one female pastor do something not to your liking, then that means that women are inferior and should no way be aloud to be a pastor and preach??? That is the dumbest most ignorant thing you could say about such a situation!!! You just painted all women with a broad brush while at the same time basically throwing them under a bus. What is wrong with you???
Joanne
It was only an example. You seem to be very angry, your posts are full of rant and venom. I am sensing the Church has hurt you.
I was a Pastor, I stepped down, because I don’t believe God allows women Pastors. It cost me a great deal. I have been to Bible College, I have four degrees I am not a stupid women.
However God is a God of order, he does have an order for the home and the Church.
God The Father, Jesus,HUsband, wife and children.
I am in no way inferior to my Husband but he is my spiritual head. I am blessed because he practises servant leadership.
Submission is not being in a position of inferiority.
Regardless the LGBT Community, the Church has done wrong, sometimes, the gay community has been treated like Lepers. However we cannot endorse a behaviour that is contrary to God’s word. Any sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman isn’t in God’s plan for us. WE need to love everyone and help everyone. However we cannot endorse a sinful lifestyle.
I am not throwing any women under a bus.
Well, this would make me reconsider attending CCCM. It was my home church for a LONG time. I love pastor Chuck, but I felt that he was leaning too heavily against gays/the LGBT community and overly concerned about politics. Regardless, I held and continue to hold him in very high regard. I miss him terribly.
Does anyone remember that Lonnie Frisbee played a BIG part in building up Calvary Chapen CM? He was gay and God had a job for him to do and he did it right there at Calvary Chapel. This is one area that I finally took a stand against. I will never again attend any church that is NOT INCLUSIVE of ALL people without exception. That is what Jesus would do. It isn’t anyones job except Gods , to judge those who many Christians show utter disdain . I will not attend any church that teaches our children over time that God doesn’t consider all of us equal enough because we are gay or a woman or a person of color or of another religion that doesn’t quite mesh with yours … I won’t have it and refuse to be part of that kind of bigotry and hatred.
Joanne
It appears you’ve found a forum to rant against any who disagree with you.
Concerning homosexuality, what does the word of God say? Read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, paying close attention to verse 11, ‘such WERE some of you’.
It is not possible to be a homosexual and a born again believer in Christ. You seem to be ignorant of repentance, and the command by the Apostle Paul to flee from sexual immorality.
Your anger and venom are nothing more than your opinions, for you provide no scriptural support.
Are you aware that God hates? Do you know He hates sin? Your ‘god’ is one you’ve created in your own mind, the God of the Bible looks nothing like your ‘all inclusive’ god.
Lyn, there’s no rhyme or reason, militant, gospel twisting, social justice proponent….doesn’t care for veracity or defending God’s word, only what she thinks is right. I call these social gospelists………… And you’re right they can’t prove their swill with scripture so they appeal to social justice and politics, in her case she adores Jimmy Carter, as anti Semite as they come, willing to divide God’s land and Jerusalem for his worldview of what’s “fair.”
Joel 3:2
“I will also gather all nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land”
I hope Calvary Chapel keeps moving forward, throws out the silly prooftexing, understands the bible as a whole and has women pastors in the near future.
Women pastors are unbiblical, so don’t throw out the “silly” prooftexting………too much ignorance when it comes to scripture, too many that want their notion of what the Bible should be, not God’s word, but man’s. It fits their world view very efficiently.
You are entitled to your opinion. This is mine I’m certain of mine.
https://christianity9968.wordpress.com/2017/06/01/phoebe-dont-plant-that-church/
You can no put Christianity in a box there are nonessential doctrines and God uses them.
https://christianity9968.wordpress.com/2017/04/01/put-away-the-box-please/
I don’t have to put God in a box. He already put Himself in a box. It’s called the Holy Bible. Remove Him from that box at your own risk.
To honour means to elevate the status of, so when people are ashamed of a women they are dishonoring her, that is not biblical. Context and history in interpretation. Interpreting on the up in other words not pulling out bits to use as negative subjection of half your congregation i.e. women. Read my blog post we are not Gnostics or intoxicated Delphi Priestesses or followers thereof Paul was not talking about us so unless a women is teaching false things she can say what she wants where she wants end of discussion. How would you like it is someone was ashamed of you just cause you are a man.
If a position needs to be foiled if a women fills it that’s not usurping. Get a dictionary and thesaurus. I think this page is a fundamental cult type of Christianity the women Paul warned about didn’t seem to have a position from the pulpit neither do these women hmmm.
If a position needs to be filled if a women fills it that’s not usurping. Get a dictionary and thesaurus. I think this page is a fundamental cult type of Christianity the women Paul warned about didn’t seem to have a position from the pulpit neither do these women hmmm.
“How would you like it is someone was ashamed of you just cause you are a man.”
How many times are we going to point this out! This is not about theology, scripture or Paul! This is simply the root of your anger! It’s a woman vs man issue! Women do not preach, women are not pastors, cut out the feminist angle! It’s not going to work! The bible is clear! Paul was clear! Paul was used by The Holy Spirit to write down God’s words!
“You are entitled to your opinion. This is mine I’m certain of mine.”
In a nutshell this is the basis for your unbiblical argument! It’s your OPINION! The bible is NOT God’s opinion! It’s His commands!
You obviously have an issue with God’s order in HIS church!
Wow, this is sad. I like interesting view points with scriptural bearings. I honestly believe the condemnation statements need deleted and or flaged, this is not loving. May our Lord heal our in ability to properly shape Iron.
Steven
Wow…quite a few satanic comments on here. Little demons arguing how good and right it is to reject Gods Word. The Bible says a woman is not to teach or have authority over the men in Churches. Those who are part of the prophesied falling away and rebellion are saying it is good to reject Gods Word. The spirit of Antichrist is thriving and it is very obvious by reading the apostate comments on here. In essence…these people who reject the scriptures are not Christians at all. If they were….they would stand on and for the scriptures….not in opposition to them. Itching ears and demonic spirits of rebellion have taken over the Church. The age of Antichrist is at the doors….and is already here.