In his piece “Crisis at North Point,” Todd Pruitt, one of the co-hosts of Mortification of Spin, denounces the raunchy stage act that was performed at Andy Stanley’s church during a Sunday morning worship service. To enlighten his readers, Pruitt included a video of the all boy band’s performance. However, the video is no longer available for viewing. According to Steven Kozar who posted the video on Museum of Idolatry on July 25th: “North Point Church is making it more difficult to view their “boy band” video (since we published this a few days ago), so we’ve made this video to remind everyone of it’s questionable and foolish content.” Following is a much shorter version of the performance:
Click here and scroll down to see more of the boys in action.
We urge you to read Todd’s Pruitt’s blog post below which has been posted in its entirety:
There is a crisis at North Point Community Church. North Point is the super duper mega church in Atlanta founded and led by Andy Stanley. Stanley has enormous influence through North Point, his books, and conferences. For many, Andy is the go-to guy when it comes to effective communication and leadership. But there is a crisis at North Point. This crisis is dishonoring to God, destructive to God’s people, and threatens the churches influenced by the Atlanta mega church.
If you were expecting some salacious detail or breaking news then this will be rather disappointing to you. The evidence is readily available. Indeed it is supplied rather proudly by North Point. The sickness at the heart of North Point is on full display in the following video which captures the goings on at a recent worship service.
Perhaps I’m naive but “Love The Way You Turn Me On” should have been a tip off to those in leadership at North Point that something was not right (at this point I don’t expect those who continue to attend to have sufficient discernment to recognize what is wrong).
Honestly, I am tired of hearing about good intentions and great results when it comes to garbage like this. This stuff does nothing, absolutely nothing to “reach” anyone. It only confuses. I would not care so much except for the fact that I once served as pastor of a church in Philadelphia where Andy Stanley had influence among some of the top leaders. And there are many other churches whose pastors, youth ministers, and children’s directors are influenced by Andy Stanley and North Point. I don’t know who has influence in Andy Stanley’s life but I hope that among those who do, someone will have the courage to call him to repent of such foolishness. This sort of thing is destructive to the people of God. When imitation of the world is allowed to flourish in a church it is clear that the shepherds have become predators.
As a side note, you may remember Andy Stanley famously saying in a sermon earlier in the year that people who go to smaller churches are “lazy” and don’t care about their children because those churches cannot provide the same sorts of experiences as do big churches like North Point. When I watched this video one of my first thoughts was, “How lazy it is to go to a church like this.”
Published in Mortification of Spin
See our White Paper on the Purpose Driven, Seeker Sensitive, Market Driven Church
A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.
– C.H. Spurgeon
We went to NorthPoint Church years ago with my family, once.
I recall this (self-proclaimed) pastor praising a woman in the audience who had cancer. I remember thinking that there was no power for this woman to believe for any kind of healing. It made me sad. Mainstream churches like North Point are a part of the harlot church talked about in the bible. A harlot begs for money and has sex with more than one partner FOR MONEY. The harlot church begs for money and has adultery with the world and it’s influence so that she can keep making money. She is not one with her Lord, intimate, nor does she hear His voice.
Proverbs 7: 24 Now, then, listen to me, O sons, and attend to the words of my mouth:
25 Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways; do not go astray in her paths.
26 For many are the wounded she has caused to fall
I don’t think I have ever witnessed such criticism on a fellow Christian as on this website. What a joke.
A wolf in sheep’s clothing – somebody who is publicly proclaiming and demonstrating a false understanding of God’s Word – is not “a fellow Christian”, but rather is an enemy of God and a danger to the true church. To call him out is not to attack a fellow Christian, but rather it’s an effort to protect genuine followers of Christ from being deceived by false doctrine.
Amen Josh! Amen! This is one of the reasons false teaching has propagated so furiously……..the sheep will turn on you if you call out their favorite rock star-idol-preacher. Sad days, but foretold to happen. We are all familiar with the verse…… “In the last days men will heap teachers that say what their itching ears want to hear.” Not what God says, but what they want.
if you think anyone in this church is a fellow believer; you are NOT A CHRISTIAN
Just because someone uses the name Jesus does not mean he/she follows Jesus. Do some research of your own to decide whether Andy Stanley is really following Jesus. Just Google ‘Andy Stanley false,” and you will come across many, many sites that expose him for what he is.
I agree with Michael. It is time to stop criticizing Andy Stanley and his ministry. In many cases, believers need to worry about their own daily walk with the Lord.
I agree. I have never listened to the music from his church and he may not be perfect. None of us are. But the vast majority of his teachings are biblical, and very helpful. It believe Andy says that Northpoint is the church for non church people. He is trying to bring people to Christ in a loving way. The approach on this website is not going to bring anyone, who is not already a believer, to Christ but re- enforce the belief that Christians are self-righteous hypocrites
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Whenever wolves like this come forward do any Christian send correspondence to them to call them to repent? Or do anything to call the congregation to come out of the church? Just curious
I did send Pastor David Uth, at FBC Orlando, and email pointing out the fact that he was hiding he gospel from the LBGTQ community by not lovingly calling them to repentance during the prayer service for them following the shooting. I encouraged him to be willing to give up everything, including his job, in order to honor the simple truth of the gospel…Jesus Christ paid for our sins on a hard wooden cross, naked, humiliated and in agonizing pain…for our sins. If you aren’t preaching that to those living in unrepentant sin, then you aren’t preaching the one and only gospel, and you aren’t loving them. I did not receive a response. We have emailed in the past.
Since this is anonymous I am not bragging and thus, don’t mind sharing my email to him.
It is obvious that Pastor Stanley is trusting in numbers and humanistic ideas and NOT on the Lord as he SHOULD. Shame on Pastor Stanley because he should know better!!!
How could anybody be a serious student of Scripture [ which a pastor is required to be ] and think that these tactics are acceptable in church ministry? It is disturbing to see so many flock to ‘churches’ where such things are used to ‘worship God’ or to ‘win souls’. False methodology is the result of false theology. Andy ought to shut down the big circus act and study the Bible and then preach it thoroughly. That was the pattern of Paul and Timothy and is to be the pattern of all Pastors/Elders. 1st & 2nd Timothy, Titus. How can a Christian minister fail to understand this? Could this be a case of the blind leading the blind? The test of ministry is not being big, it is being Biblical. If people want amusement let them go to Six Flags!
I believe this is just another result of the purposely designed direction of the emergent church away from sound biblical doctrine, in favor of a “faith” that is experiential. If not grounded in the truth of the Bible, what are the limits these leaders will go to? I use the word “leaders” and not “pastors” because they are not doing their job as biblically defined. Andy Stanley’s model is of a leader/CEO and not a pastor/shepherd.
To Thad Boyd: You have said everything very well, and I agree with your viewpoint 100 percent.
I feel so because Dr. Charles Stanley must be hurting over all of this.
Sorry, for leaving off a word. I feel so bad because Dr. Charles Stanley must be hurting over all of this.
Amen. I pray his dad is bringing counsel. But I wonder if he will submit?
I know that what I am about to say is not going to be well received. Is Dr. Charles Stanley separating himself from Andy Stanley? Is he calling his son out for false teaching? If not, why not? They are both very influential pastors who should be held to a high level of accountability.
2 Cor. 6:14-15, “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?”
If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t there a photo showing Charles sitting next to Andy during the service at Andy’s church? If so, this is showing support for Andy’s teaching. I don’t care if it is one’s son, there is guilt by association. Again, what communion hath light with darkness?
You are correct David, false teaching is false teaching, Charles Stanley cannot be part of that church unless he himself has become compromised. This is part and parcel of the great apostasy unfolding before our eyes, I’d say more than 90% of so called Christendom is compromised. The day grows closer.
Lighthouse Trails did an article in July 2013 that Charles Stanley’s In Touch magazine was continuing to promote contemplative/emergent names and that Charles also supported the “Be Still” DVD which promotes contemplative prayer.
Lighthouse Trails considers Andy Stanley, being part of the emerging church, to be a bridger between the emerging church and evangelical Christianity.
Kinda sounds like both father and son may be bridgers.
I really that the worst of the Jimmy Swaggart 1990s preaching of hell fire and brimstone were over and that we had all learned that the bible was to be used against satan and his kingdom. Apparently I’m finding some bitter Christians who would rather attack a brother over the smallest of things rather than the true enemy of the church. While you’re busy sniffing through the entire catalog of “fill in mega church” of church sermons, bulletins, magazine, mission statements, christian get togethers, etc. just looking for something to condemn, Satan’s kingdom has marched right into your church and divorced half of the congregation, got your son’s addicted to pornography, got your daughters to put their self worth on their outward appearance and got the rest of you on a life long crusade to be, as lighthouse trails puts it “Gospel protectors”. First of all, God can protect his gospel just fine. Second, do you really think that there’s a special reward in heaven for those who pointed out all the inconsistencies of every christian who lived? 3). Your apostate church is the part of your church that fails to live up to the impossible standards you put on everyone in it. So before you bash every christian over the head with a bible who doesn’t follow every single requirement you have for a perfect christian and a perfect church, please look inside and ask yourself why you have the need to do that.
If one preaches Jesus Christ crucified for sin, repentance and separation from the wicked culture we live in, then they are good. If they don’t, and gladly lead the masses down the broad road to hell with silly, humanistic sermons that are geared toward building the business of church and their own personal brand, then they are bad and must be called out – and publicly. See Galatians 2, where Paul calls out Peter publicly.
All that matters is that people are called to repent and believe so that they don’t burn in hell forever. Few preachers care anymore because it won’t get them but speaking engagements, book and DVD deals, and it sure as heck won’t bring rich yuppies into their pews.
Ok. A couple of things. I think the sticking point with the churches who get targeted would be questioned on “separation from wicked culture”. I don’t think Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, and a few other notable mega church pastors never “gladly lead the masses down the broad road of hell”. Everyone has to take accountability for their beliefs. Every christian has full access not only to the bible but a mass amount of christian doctrine but hundreds of ministers. There is no excuse for any christian to be lead astray these days. If you haven’t bothered to form your own opinions about your faith and can be misdirected to a false relationship with Christ, I don’t think there’s any finger pointing that can go on. As many Protestant believers that believe some Catholics are saved in with believing in the Virgin Mary and other Catholic doctrines, how can we point to a Christian church who profess 90 percent or more of what you believe as say that the church is fully leading people astray? I’m not talking about the emergent church who reject the fundamental aspects of christian faith. I’m talking about the Joel Osteens, the Andy Stanleys, and other big name ministers who are preaching salvation. If you’re not edified by their message, you can move on. But some people are edified and not every christian of faith is going to have hundreds and hundreds of faith doctrines worked out in their lives. Some of them are busy working and raising families and doing God’s work.
I don’t know what you’re pointing to in Galatians 2, Paul never calls out Peter, only alludes to the similar ministry that they have. The whole dialogue servers my point actually.
You mentioned that people don’t “burn in hell forever”. You mean the Lake of Fire right? Because death and hell are thrown into the Lake of Fire at the end of Revelation. I really reject the notion of “few preachers care anymore”. From where I stand I think the majority of fundamental churches preach the same gospel. But if you’re going to split hairs about church music, the presentation of all aspects of church doctrine and other variations and say that salvation depends on those things, well then I think we need to read the bible together and talk about what’s necessary for salvation.
bitter Christian attacking a “brother”. Which brother? You truly, with an honest conscience in light of scripture, do you call this church displayed above as a brotherly Church? You have every reason to doubt that you’re a Christian if you truly believe andy stanley is a christian;
a fundamental lack of Spiritual discernment is evidence of false conversion. Our LORD said His sheep will recognize His voice, and will also RUN AWAY FROM STRANGERS. If you cannot recognize strangers, false teachers, you ARE PROBABLY NOT A TRUE CHRISTIAN
Sometimes you find the true enemy of the church being preached from a pulpit, under the guise of unity, entertainment and tolerance. Beware of those that espouse it doesn’t matter what the bible says of these wolves, after all we are all brothers and sisters, right? And calling out obvious error and apostasy is tantamount to being divisive, unloving, and unkind……….well this is why Churchianity grows by the day, and the Great Apostasy is being fulfilled as much of the church has lost discernment and the ability to judge wisely. Jesus said broad is the way……few find it, it’s getting harder to follow Christ with each passing day, if not for His protection we would all be carried away in the great deception. We have been warned, in the last days men will gather teachers that will say what their itching ears want to hear. Many within the ranks will turn on the faithful. So here we are.
Political Correctness (PC) has entered the church. Those who preach truth and warn the brethren of false teaching and deception will be vilified by many who profess Christ. The slogan in today’s church is “love and unity.” Unfortunately, truth has been REDEFINED. In fact, that is what we are seeing in the world today…the redefining of words. What’s up is now down, what’s right is now wrong, what’s good is now bad, what’s white is now black. Those who do not embrace this lie, this deception, are now the problem within and outside the church. When it’s all said and done, it’s about the compromise of truth. Many do not want truth today because it causes discomfort and perhaps fear, so they settle for the lie because it is comfortable and non-threatening to their way of life. And this is the falling away – the apostasy that we are seeing via the emergent church, dominionism, social justice, mysticism, etc. May we be found faithful and obedient at our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ’s SOON coming.
FALSE TEACHERS: (there are more)
2 Timothy 4:3-4 – For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
1 John 4:1 – Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 Timothy 6:3-5 – If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, [even] the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
Jude 1:4 – For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:1 – But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Deuteronomy 13:1-3 – If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 – For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2 Timothy 3:5 – Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Ephesians 5:11 – And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
1 John 4:1-6 – Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 2:26-27 – These [things] have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
Joel Osteen does NOT preach salvation, he preaches a false doctrine of demons:
That’s just one tiny example.
Any “Protestant” that believes anyone is saved by trusting in The Vatican, The Virgin Mary or the Pope is deluded, just ask Rick Warren. According to the fools that believe this we all worship the same god, including the Islamic demon, all roads to lead to Rome all worship the same god.
The apostasy being unfolded in Christendom does not agree with the sentiment that churches are preaching the basic tenets of the bible, much less the more intricate passages. What we have in general today is Aposasy, error and lack of discernment to see the lies.
Also, being edified does not men saved. The common thread in all these false ministries is the “feel-good” false gospel, it doesn’t save, there’s enough leaven mixed with truth to make it sound “right” to the undiscerning, non-bible reading proselyte. 90% of something is not 100% it is incomplete, Colossians 2 deals with such a heresy, Paul clearly says “see that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.” Worldly practices and philosophy is what the mega-church apostates use to make their “church” grow, not the word of God. Stanley, Osteen, Hybels, Warren and their ilk will have a greater condemnation as they trample the word of God underfoot for their gain.
The word of God is 100% complete, if they can’t teach it, they have no business handling it. It seems like too many are willing to take that 90% as long as they are entertained, feel good and their life stays the same, how many will come to this realization when they face Jesus for the first time? What are they going to say……..I’m a good person, I went to church, pastor so and so said his is the way to salvation? I wouldn’t want to be in the shoes of any of the above named false teachers.
Anyone not preaching islam is okay by me.
I believe that is most important today.
Focus on the true subversion.
Submission can not be an option.
Man, Andy Stanley is so brilliant. As a life long atheist I never would have found Jesus without him. I hated Jesus, I hated God and I hated Christians. Now I am transformed thanks to this man. God has given him a real gift and has given me a real gift in letting me find him. Sometimes I feel like he is one of the only people who truly understands the bible as it was intended. I feel Lille 99 percent of Christians have been misled or are just fake. The only true Christians I have ever met go to Northpoint. You guys should really open your heats and minds to what the Holy Spirit is doing here.
As soon as I read ‘I was a pastor…’ this lost all credibility.
I disagree with all the criticism. It’s not Andy Stanley’s church, and God is using NorthPoint’s efforts to accomplish His purposes!
Years ago while attending a church leadership conference at a NorthPoint, I recall hearing Prince’s “Little Red Corvette” playing over the sound system during a break. At first I thought the sound guy was playing the wrong playlist. Then I realized what was going on… NorthPoint Church was modeling a welcoming environment for us. That song is familiar to a lot of people inside and outside church culture, and hearing a familiar song helps people feel welcome, accepted, and comfortable.
Does every church have to play ‘Little Red Corvette’ before or after services? Of course not. But if every church was as intentional about reaching the lost and real heart change, rather than looking perfect and judging others who aren’t, Christ’s purpose would be accomplished in His church.
Do any of you know Andy Stanley? Bless him, Father, for trying to reach people and reconcile them to You.
All the critics above are the main reason most people in the US don’t go to church. Many people say they believe in Jesus, but His so-called “followers” aren’t anything like Him. I agree. Traditional church is failing. Call it what it is. And most critics don’t have a heart that cares enough to even try to do anything about it. Sad.
Seems to me this site is trying to do something about it. “Going” to church today has become a social event, such as the link Ronald posted…..they might as well drag out Madona and let her do a routine. Where do we draw the line indeed. I don’t recall reading in scripture where the apstles had to stage productions or entertainment to bring people “closer” to God. Church is not for unbelievers, once a person comes to Christ he’s in the congregation, not the other way around and frankly an unbeliever attending these kinds of “worship” extravaganzas comes away with the view that “church” is like the rest of the world, entertainment and feel good, none-judgemental, serving a watered down unsavng worldly gospel.
Skewed. Here is the whole thing: http://blog.northpoint.org/90s-opener/
Please watch, Pharisees. Is it okay to open with Beatles “Here comes the sun” after months of bad weather? Where is the line drawn?
5 words you will never hear Andy Stanley say:
“please turn in your bible” (no one takes a bible to North Point? Why?
They dont need it – the word is not being taught there!
Message you will never hear from Andy:
It’s wrong for a man to sleep with a man
What is Hell and how do you get there?
What is judgement day?
Any message on titheing
The Fruits of the Spirit
I read with interest each of the comments above. And while Christians get so caught up in “how we should do church”…..people perish. I don’t know about the videos, as it’s quite obvious you can’t see them now. For me that’s neither here nor there. Christ lived and teached what he wanted his followers to exemplify. A lot of the above comments are calling out all that may be wrong and yes, I agree, when necessary should be addressed. However, the command was “go ye into all the world” not just the part you agree with.
He bled and died for everyone painfully, so I’m quite sure he’s absolutely enamoured with the energy each of you have put forth in the feud above while 151,600 people currently pass from this life everyday according to statistics as of 6/15/17.
Having grown up in the church……meaning explicitly, being there more days than not during the week till I was 18, I know full well that even the most Godly people are “still” human, born into sin, but offered amazing grace. I’d say we need to see the world thru the “eyes of Christ” and our mission “making fisher’s of men” as opposed to splitting hairs. When you can say the number of feet you’ve washed is greater than the number of unrighteous you’ve called out, then we probably have something in common.
Had their been a larger population in the garden of eden, I’d bet they would’ve called Adam and Eve the Jim and Tammy Faye of their time. Just saying.
and while there are some “scripturally” compelling cases above, please be reminded:
1. Let him without sin cast the first stone.
2. My Bible says this is exactly how the righteous group of Jesus’ time treated him as well. We all know how that turned out.
3. Jesus met people where “they” were…….not where he wanted them to be. he led them there “after” he met them there.
4. His words to his disciples were “follow me” and I “will make” you fishers of men…..he never said, “you can follow me “only if.” He “asked.” Then he taught. Then he forgave.
Exposing false teachers is not ‘casting the first stone’. Warning others of heretics like Andy Stanley is what we should do. Christ himself warned about the wolves.
Point 2- Christ had the harshest of words for who? The ‘religious’ of his day. The Pharisees treatment of Christ has not one thing to do with exposing wolves.
Point 3 – Christ makes it clear, you must repent. You cannot remain in your sins and follow Christ. Pointing sinners to their sins and proclaiming what Christ proclaimed, ‘repent and believe’ is what Christians should be doing. Not sure what this point has to do with exposing false teachers. No one is saying you have to ‘clean up your act’ before you can become a Christian; however, repentance must be proclaimed to all.
Point 4 – same as point 3. How do any of your points make reference to exposing false teachers?
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Take note of verse 15, ‘beware’ – Christ warns…and you claim Christians shouldn’t warn?
From the article, you have no problem with a band singing a sexually explicit song? Bear in mind, this is supposed to be a ‘church’. Here’s the problem – this church appeals to the sinful flesh. They haven’t a clue who the God of the bible is, nor are they aware of all of His attributes – mainly ‘holy, holy, holy’. The vile display of their form of ‘worship’ proves so.
Many are biblically illiterate and clueless to the God of the bible, this garbage is passed off as ‘worship’. Man centered religiosity is a stench to a sovereign, thrice holy God.
Lyn, thank you (I mean this) for your very determined study of the scripture and it’s meaning. You’re to be commended for that! Please keep bearing that fruit my friend and brother/sister in Christ (the name Lyn can be confusing, sorry)
My intent was to spark a conversation about how we connect with those who don’t attend church and/or those who have never attended church. Our mission should be to reach out to the lost and dying, “all day….everyday.” Not just Sunday.
Humor me for just a moment. I’ve searched relentlessly to tie this aforementioned video to Stanley’s church. So far unsuccessfully. Please if you can provide me with a fact based link I’d appreciate that in the sincerest way. (know i neither endorse Stanley nor do I refute him at this point as I’ve stated, I can’t verify the video in question)
Also know that I’m not a fan of going to church on Sunday for the sake of “being seen.” and living the other 6 days “in the ways of the world.” (bear with me)
I am a fan of “not forsaking the gathering of yourselves together,” along with living a life that makes people began to take notice. In other words I want to hear one say, “Wow, He/She treats me like they care for me,” and then “Why do they care for me.” That opens the door for conversation that hopefully leads to believing, receiving, and ultimately repeating the cycle. You’d call that witnessing. I’d call that being what Christ called me to be.
You’d also get my concurrence on your quotes of Matthew 7:15-20.
With that said, (and again I sincerely concur) please address the whole of Matthew chapter 6 and then chapter 7 verses 1-14. What is the message that precedes 7:15-20?
I’m openly asking for your take on this. I’m in no way admonishing. We learn by sharing and I’m about learning here.
I’ll wrap up with this and a final thought and then rest as I don’t believe as Believers we should be arguing amongst ourselves.
We should be having this kind of conversation amongst ourselves to be all we can be for a lost and dying world. We should be about helping one another along this thing called life in a “giving” effort to reach out to those as is our command. Not reprimanding publicly per se as if these actions on our part cause only one soul to miss out on heaven……..that should be heavy on our hearts.
So, please digest this with my sincerest apology if I offend as that is not my intent at all. The church as it was shortly AD is not the church “exactly” as it was in the 1940’s 50’s 60s, or 70s. I’m quite sure the churches in the several hundred years AD never sang “Amazing Grace” or “Blessed Assurance” yet both were adopted, foundationally the doctrine was kept in tact, and I’m quite sure there were multitudes of people who began a relationship with Jesus on what these songs “in that time” brought to their lives. I think we can agree on that.
However, it’s my humble opinion that the writers of the same hymns were blessed with the divine wisdom to write something that gave meaning to those believers in that era and were cause for many conversions.
again, don’t confuse this as agreement or non agreement with the video that initiated this thread. Let’s have an awesome conversation about how we really can reach a world that the church has largely failed. I believe we can do that. However, we must trump what the “world” has to offer, much in the same way that Christ did with the woman at the well. Not bells and whistles, lights and cameras and flashy in your face stuff…..but rather “Empathy” with a capital “E” my friend.
As I read and reread the new testament more often than not Christ was “asking his disciples” and others to follow and along the way he taught them how and in turn, they did the same.
Final thought: if the aforementioned video is actually fact. And we make the assumption that one or both of the Stanley’s (father and son) were at one point sincere in their endeavors, why then did this thread not start from:
“Berean Study Bible”
Brothers, if someone is caught in a trespass, you who are spiritual should restore him with a spirit of gentleness.
and then this:
“Treasury of Scripture”
Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.
Empathy, Meekness……and that line: “lest you be tempted.” Please bring that line into the “whole” of the context in which it was portrayed in the scripture.
Very Humbly Yours,
you didn’t read this did you – piratechristianDOTcom/museum-of-idolatry/2016/7/love-the-way-you-turn-me-on-north-point-community-church. To say you do not know if this video is true is to essentially accuse the author of the original post of lying. The article does give evidence the video is in fact very real, and if that isn’t enough, this is from the church’s blog – http://blog.northpoint.org/90's-opener/. Take note of the lyrics, ‘you got the right stuff baby .. you turn me on’. And you take no issue with that? That is telling.
Concerning the videos, you state ” For me that’s neither here nor there.” You have NO PROBLEM with illicit sexual content being sung at a worship service?!? Do you understand what it means to say God is thrice holy? This is a vile display of sinful vulgarity, and at a ‘church’ no less.
You assume Andy Stanley is a ‘brother in Christ’….the fruit he bears says otherwise.
Go to piratechristianDOTcom/messedupchurch/2016/8/the-andy-stanley-cornucopia-of-false-teaching-postmodern-ambiguity-fast-talking
You quote scriptures concerning true brethren being overtaken, that isn’t even the case here. Christ pulled no punches when He confronted the Pharisees, pronounced woes on them, and called them hypocrites and white washed tombs. According to your views, Christ should have been rebuked right then and there – how unloving!
Stanley is among those whom Christ warned concerning wolves in sheep’s clothing. He is double tongued, compromising, and would be rebuked by Christ himself ” Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” He tickles ears and has no boldness to proclaim God’s truth. – go to pulpitandpenDOTorg/2015/05/11/4752/
Your comment is filled with fluff and opinions and a few verses taken out of context. Opinions are fine if you are discussing politics, the weather, etc. However, when it comes to upholding God’s truth and exposing wolves, opinions are worthless. Christ had great disdain for the ‘religious’ of His day.
The ‘church’ that has ‘failed’ is the worldly church, the fluff they partake in like we see in this video. This worldly ‘church’ is Laodicean and cannot save others because it is in dire need of salvation as well. This describes the visible churches all over America, and the world for that matter, that cater to the flesh and tickle the ear. Christ has removed His candlestick from these dead churches a long time ago. We now have hucksters like Stanley in the pulpits, and the masses love to have it so because they are left comfortable in their sins. Church today is nothing more than an hour of entertainment with food and beverages being served, like you are at the movies – what a stench in the nostrils of the sovereign God of the Bible!
The true church of Christ is doing as the Lord would have it do – walking worthy, mortifying sin, living for Him as we journey through this land and onto a better country. The Gospel the true church gives speaks of the vileness of mankind, the wicked hearts of sinners that rebel against a thrice holy God. We point sinners to their sins and to the Savior and His finished work. We tell them God is merciful and speak of the tax collector who cried out ‘O God be merciful to me, the sinner!’ Sin and repentance are proclaimed, just as it is written.
Lastly, you state “I’m quite sure there were multitudes of people who began a relationship with Jesus on what these songs “in that time” brought to their lives. I think we can agree on that.” No, we do not agree on that at all. Songs do not bring sinners to Christ – the proclaiming of the Gospel does – Romans 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
If you think lyrics like ‘you got the right stuff baby’ are glorifying to God and will bring a sinner to Christ, you need to examine yourself. This rubbish is an abomination to God! Something is seriously wrong with your ideology and I make NO apologies for stating that.
Is it any wonder Jesus told Nicodemus ‘unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God’?
Lyn, nevermind. it’s those like you who just don’t get it. who are not willing to listen “in an effort to love”. note I did not say forsake your beliefs or doctrine. you are however so caught up in being right that here’s what you can’t see that I’m saying to you:
When I go to church on Sunday, even maybe your church, I want to know how I can get this thing called life right and have the ultimate walk with the Savior. I want to know there’s is someone there that’s supportive of me and there to help me walk the walk.
Neither of your replies did you seek to understand where I was. You’ve called out everything that you think I got wrong about all of this but you missed the critical things I needed:
I asked for a conversation to learn and understand: You are very condescending my friend.
I asked to have a conversation about how we can reach the world in the right way: you missed that one being so caught up in calling out others failures
Christ did have great disdain for the religious sect in His day as you stated: You remind me of that religious holier than thou sect the he rebuked and ultimately killed him.
Jesus washed the disciples feet, he asked them to show the same respect to others, the same love. You’ve shown me neither here.
I wish you well.
You can debate me at the email address below if we can have a respectful conversation but nothing further here.
Yes, never mind is quite accurate. Your fluff is a waste of time. You only came here to defend what God hates, you presented no biblical proof concerning the filth that passes as ‘worship’. Your agenda will always fail when it comes to the elect of God.
Instead of addressing the topic at hand biblically, you simply spew out more ‘fluff’.
Call me what you will, I could care less. I will always side with God and His truth and expose all that is false. Your compromising ways are typical of today’s modern ‘christianity’.
Your accusations are typical of someone who has no discernment and cannot defend with scripture. You accuse me of being a ‘pharisee’ and being unloving, all because I pointed out the obvious. Biblical love is NOT an emotion, it is an action- like standing against what God hates. Songs with suggestive sexual content is what God hates, even more so when its presented as ‘worship’.
Again, Christ stated one must be born again or you will not see the kingdom of God. May God have mercy on you and re-birth you. Being deceived and deluded is a horrific thing. Pulling verses out of context in an effort to support a ‘god’ who is only love is tragic.
“God hates man for sin! It is not only sin, but sinners that God hates–and that for sin! It is said of God, that He hates the workers of iniquity (Psalm 5:5); not only the works of iniquity–but the workers of it.It is because of sin, that the merciful God says, “Their Maker has no compassion on them, and their Creator shows them no favor!” Isaiah 27:11
This is the worst that can be spoken of the venom of sin, that in a sense, and to speak after the manner of men–it has put hatred into God Himself! Sin has made the Lord hate and destroy His own workmanship!” Ralph Venning, from his sermon ‘plague of plagues’ available at http://www.gracegems.org/31/venning_plague_of_plagues.htm
Kevin, if I may…
You said, [When I go to church on Sunday, even maybe your church, I want to know how I can get this thing called life right and have the ultimate walk with the Savior. I want to know there’s is someone there that’s supportive of me and there to help me walk the walk.]
That’s great, but what is being pointed out in this post is that a Christian is not going to grow and learn in a place where the truth of God is not being preached or taught. When the “worship” is nothing more than fleshly desire, you’re not going to grow. When the teaching is contrary to the Scriptures, you’re not going to learn the truth that would otherwise help you to walk with the Lord.
Find a place where the Word of God is being properly taught and where the elders are already walking with the Lord. Too often, assemblies like those of Andy Stanley, are full of people who are walking after the flesh, not the Spirit and you won’t learn or grow there.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you would have been like the accommodating Corinthians who thought they were being mature and loving by allowing the incestuous man to continue in fellowship. 1 Corinthians 5. Yes? No?
WAIT! one last thought:
Noah……built an ark to save the world…..got a little drunk and did some questionable things near the end of his story. FALSE PROPHET!
Moses……I remember a murder in there……FALSE PROPHET
King Saul……litterally cowered to goliath and was upstaged by a teenager named David. And later spent a considerable amount of time trying to have him killed. FALSE PROPHET.
King David……adultery, deception, and murder FALSE PROPHET
Solomon…..sexually explicit as he speaks of his wife, FALSE PROPHET
Father of the prodigal son……that father should’ve been rebuked for allowing such a son to come home. How wrong was it that he seen his son coming home from a distance and immediately ran to him with the finest clothing, rings, killed the fatted calf and celebrated. Instead he should’ve stopped him for trespassing and called in the community and let them watch while he berated him for his sinful ways. FALSE PROPHET
Peter…..blatantly denied Christ not one, not two, but THREE time…..FALSE PROPHET
Paul/Saul…….how many Christians did he kill before his conversion? Yet if I’m not mistaken he wrote most of the New Testament?
I have to believe that if Lyn lived during certain times in each of the persons lives above, Lyn would’ve certainly called each a “false prophet.” And it makes me wonder if Lyn might have led and entire flock away from Paul’s teaching back then because surely his conversion would’ve been considered the ultimate sheep in wolves clothing for sometime after his conversion………..
again, more out of context quoting of God’s precious word. More false accusations…..none of what you spewed out is relevant to the topic at hand. You only desire to attack me for pointing out the obvious. You seek to justify sin and point to ‘examples’ in the bible – here’s one you missed –
Psa 51:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came unto him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Psa 51:2 Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Psa 51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
Psa 51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Psa 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Psa 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
Psa 51:14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Psa 51:15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Psa 51:18 Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
Psa 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
This is what true biblical repentance looks like. Now, what are the ‘false prophet’? Someone who speaks words that do not come to pass.
well ya got one of them…..
It’s time to move on Kevin.
May God regenerate you, may you be born again by His Spirit and elected unto life.
Can any of the critics of Any Stanley posting in the comment section claim to have watched one of his entire series? Anyone?
Andy and North Point churches don’t even promote rows but circles and that is how Jesus intended for us to meet. Not in a church (since there was no ‘church’ during his time) but as groups of fellow seekers and followers.
Could the director of music at the particular location where the song was performed made an ill-advised decision based on the lyrics alone? Could we show that person some grace? I’ve been attending one of the satellite churches for over 8 years now with my wife and two children, and am very conservative, and not once has any facet of material including song, performance or content made me feel like it was inappropriate to any degree.
Scripture is CONSTANTLY reviewed during his sermons, and it has brought the Bible to life for me. No one has ever been able to do this for me. If 8 years ago you would have told me that some day I’d be able to recount scripture verbatim and understand passages with such a significant depth, I would never believe you.
My kids have amazing leaders in their small groups while we attend the sermon and it was their small group leader that gave my son his first full length Bible. My 7 year old son (at the time) then proceeded to read the entire Bible front to back within just a couple months. Through his journey we and his leaders supported and encouraged him and we also learned many things along the way.
We are surrounded by THE most giving people I’ve ever known and not just with their money but also their time. The North Point churches give back to everyone in our communities, whether they follow Jesus or not, whether they like our churches or not and also promote community service and linking up with local businesses to drive servant leadership. The church runs a zero balance sheet, meaning it donates what it receives at 100% and runs one-off campaigns to maintain or expand.
So in sum, I now love Jesus and follow him more closely than I ever have in my life, I am part of a small group who learn from each other, love each other, give, support and speak the word of God, I and my family are more giving than ever and now pray daily and read scripture daily, and it all began with North Point churches.
For those of you who don’t feel this is our great God’s hand at work, then I truly feel sorry for you but do hope you will find peace. Thank you for your time reading my post.
We don’t care about your experiences, we care about the clearly written holy word of our LORD JESUS CHRIST. Do you suppose that we now use your experience as a standard to test the character of andy Stanley and his false church? That’s ridiculous and unbiblical. Based on scripture, Andy stanley is a false teacher, he has disobeyed god’s word and propagates false doctrines. From the very beginning he was disqualified to be a minister of the gospel, because he is not even a Christian to begin with.
The image of Andy Stanley preaching in this story is photoshopped. NPCC doesn’t have stadium seating. Why would you do this? Why do you have to deceive to make NPCC look bigger than it is. A super mega church to make your point? Use the truth when you try to lead others.
I don’t think it’s photoshopped, just not North Point Community Church. It must be from a conference or something. Good catch.
Everybody seems to have an opinion and you are all trying to fit everything in your own little box. Majority of the people today consider them to be Christian…even if they don’t believe. Christ told His disciples to whatever it takes to win people to Christ. Why back in that culture, Christ ate with the low-life…it was taboo in their culture. He commanded us to love !!! Besides that…I don’t want to shock you all, but there is a huge difference in being a Christian…and being a Christ Follower !!! He gave us a free will.Shame on those who stand in Judgement. If you want forgiveness for your equities, than you better stop judging unless you want Christ to judge you. Better yet, shut the TV off and read your Bible. Disappointed…no wonder Jesus said…what did you not understand (Billboard)
wow…just wow….nearly all of these graceless, holier than thou comments are (probably) written by tulip planters….and their attacks are always the same. More pity than scorn to them. Jon, your comments are exactly why NPCC was created… to the others who have have heard or witnessed in person the messages of Andy, I am in agreement with you. sadly, the many know it all’s in this comment section seem to only want to puff their chests out and thump their 10 lb KJV to make a point to show the online courses they passed were worth the investment. Lisa C, you are spot on…but according to David,
“If you think anyone in this church is a fellow believer; you are NOT A CHRISTIAN”..LOL…is that is in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd David? I’m so glad you made it simple for us…and just curious, where were you again when the world was formed and created? Never mind, already knew the answer tiny tim……Grace to all
The critics of Andy Stanley need to face up to exactly what THEY are doing to win people to Christ and also what they SHOULD be doing. Andy presents wonderful messages on his TV program, and he is a great blessing to me in that way.
This, for me, is incredibly sad! I was saved in 1989 and it was after hearing Andy preach. He was preaching at FBC Atlanta. I benefited tremendously from his father’s ministry. Sad, that he departed from his fundamental moorings.
Not defending any one…. This was part of a 90’s themed program they had.
Yes.. I agree.. it is not something they should be doing for a sunday morning program…
but The songs were about the 90s boy bands… the program in question was 5 years ago (July 2016)
Perhaps the person who made the decision to do a 90’s themed morning service should be the one who needs to questioned. I cant find any info on rather Andy was behind all of it or not .
YES I know he has had some other questionable bands and music at his church. NOT defending any one.