The Body Politic Is Queer

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On the heels of the U.S. Supreme Court’s disastrous decision to legalize same-sex “marriage,” Peter Jones of truthxchange penned a piece with this warning: You cannot introduce into society a life style, now considered legal, without it redefining what the culture must receive as morally and spiritually acceptable. Putting blue dye in one end of the pool affects the color of the water in the whole pool.

LGBTQ

Ironically, this claim [“the body of Christ is queer”], by an ordained bi-sexual female, Layton E. Williams, in the PC(USA), appeared the day before the decision of the USSC to legalize same sex marriage in all fifty states.

Culturally, this legal decision represents an historic moment for the United States. The Declaration of Independence, declaring that rights and laws are endowed by the Creator, has been rendered meaningless by a fake redefining of marriage, with no reference to the Creator or to any objective standards. The charade is over. This decision indicates that what has been happening for some time is finally here for all to see: the USA is clearly a “godless nation.” Let public figures supporting this decision no longer say or sing: “God bless America.” or “Amazing Grace.” It is just as worthless as their view of marriage.

This is a victory for “progressives,” though we have not made much progress. Augustine in his City of God vividly describes the 5th century pagan “games” offered in honor of Tanit, the celestial “virgin” and mother of the gods. He also describes the public display of the goddess’s homosexual priests. “They were seen yesterday, their hair moist, their faces covered in make-up, their limbs flaccid, their walk effeminate, wandering through the squares and streets of Carthage, demanding from the public the means to subsidize their shameful life.”

We still have such parades. The difference is that often at the head of our parades are ordained “Christian” ministers. In some ways the apostate church is leading the culture. Indeed, it is the homosexual “theologians” who really understand the logic behind this cultural movement. Episcopal LGBTQ advocate Marie Alford-Harkey stresses the need for more bisexual-friendly churches, which celebrate sexual diversity through the mediums of preaching and worship, proposing “the Queer God who challenges the oppressive powers of heterosexual orthodoxy…[in order] to liberate God from the closet of traditional Christian thought.” In other words, inclusive churches are not simply accommodating practice but developing a whole new theory of theology and community.

The formulation of Presbyterian Layton Williams is even more radical. It is not enough for churches to “admit” LGBTQ people into church membership and then keep them there at arms length. Such members must apply their morality and theology as “a vital component” of the church’s identity and teaching. “What God calls for isn’t inclusion of queer people, but for the church to “name and embrace its own queerness.” This requires a radical rethinking of its entire belief system. She goes on: “The body of Christ is queer because it isn’t defined or bound by human constructs or binaries. It transcends and subverts norms and boundaries. It contains multitudes.” Theologically, she is demanding the removal of the “binaries” including ultimately the removal of the Twoist doctrine of Creator/creature binary and God the Creator’s replacement with the “god within” which is full-blown paganism. Such “vital components” for the church’s message necessarily will include all kinds of “pan-sexual” activities.

Hopefully places like City Church in San Francisco, who have recently embraced same sex marriage will realize the full implications of that decision before queerness starts to define their entire belief system.

In some ways, apostate Oneist churches are showing the way for the culture. If the body of Christ is queer, so will be the body politic. Just as apostate churches are seeking total integration of “gayness,” so must the culture. You cannot introduce into society a life style, now considered legal, without it redefining what the culture must receive as morally and spiritually acceptable. Putting blue dye in one end of the pool affects the color of the water in the whole pool. So the USSC’s legalization of same sex marriage as the legalization of affective relationships, means there will be no logical end-point as to where such affective attachments could lead—transgender mating, incest, sado-masochistic homosexuality, polygamy, endless polyamorous permutations and eventually zoophilia, and everyone will be obliged to conform. There are already few, if any, sexual moral standards, so a generally amoral view of life will be communicated in nationwide curricula to the nation’s children. Homosexuality will also be encouraged in perfectly “legal” gay clubs in Junior and senior high schools. There is much more to be said. As churches and individual Christian believers, we will begin to discover how much the Oneist state intends to control our public and perhaps even our private speech and massively promote pagan religion.

All this should not surprise us, and if we can face the inevitable opposition to biblical truth the way the early church did, with courage and joy, we can eventually hope for a great spiritual revival. Certainly, if our culture continues to “evolve,” it will one day implode. May faithful believers be there when that happens.

Source: truthxchange

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17 Responses to The Body Politic Is Queer

  1. Ivette S. June 28, 2015 at 5:49 pm #

    Unfortunately, this situation has gone beyond being appalling. It has now gone beyond the pale (to coin an old fashion turn of phrase)…It has now reached extreme levels of depravity and defilement. This situation has become comparable with the levels of deprivation and defilement that were demonstrated in the sister cities of Sodom & Gomorrah….

    • Lisa June 28, 2015 at 10:51 pm #

      I think that this just the tip of the iceberg. The world gets worse than this.

  2. Eric Hupf June 29, 2015 at 11:18 am #

    I am confused as to what your point is. Are you saying that society needs to change? Because that is a very broad statement.
    Are you just trying to bring more awareness to the issue?
    I am trying to understand what you are actually trying to say and your purpose behind it.

    Are you saying that because we are accepting the gay community that we are going to accept “transgender mating, incest, sado-masochistic homosexuality, polygamy, endless polyamorous permutations and eventually zoophilia”? Why can’t it lead to better relationships, people sharing how they actually feel and not hiding it, and a more loving church body? You cannot stereotype gay relationships; they are not all the same.

    And did you see her point about the church being queer? The church is a place where the only requirement is that you believe and follow after Christ. There is not a set of rules that must be followed. ( And for the record, I have found no scripture against the gay when they are celibate. ) The church is a body of people, each with different views, backgrounds, ideas, skills, etc. If the church cannot see that the gay community is meant to be part of the body (and is already part of it), then they should not be hating. Look inward first, then start to look outward. And once you see what you are looking at, which is a child of God, love them, don’t show them hate.

    • lyn July 1, 2015 at 10:11 am #

      Eric

      If it is your understanding that a sinner can lust in their heart and still be a follower of Christ, then you are in error. Christ proves you wrong in Matthew 5:28- “But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Sinful thoughts are just as damning as sinful actions.

      As for your comment that the only requirement is to believe and follow, I’m afraid you’ve forgotten the need to walk worthy, i.e., in obedience to God’s word {John 14:15}. Those who’ve been born again by God the Spirit are new creatures in Christ, meaning we no longer partake in the sins we used to cherish. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 we see this…
      “Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, or thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.”
      It is essential that you look closely into verse 11, ‘such WERE some of you’- the verb is past tense, meaning you no longer indulge in the sins you once loved. This is what many fail to preach and many fail to understand, you must forsake your sins and that is only possible IF the Spirit of God has supernaturally re-birthed you.
      The Apostle Paul tells us we are to mortify sin, or put it to death…

      Col 3:5 Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry;
      Col 3:6 for which things’ sake cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience:
      Col 3:7 wherein ye also once walked, when ye lived in these things;
      Col 3:8 but now do ye also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, railing, shameful speaking out of your mouth:
      Col 3:9 lie not one to another; seeing that ye have put off the old man with his doings,
      Col 3:10 and have put on the new man, that is being renewed unto knowledge after the image of him that created him:

      Fornication includes all sexual immorality outside the covenant of marriage of a man and a woman {Genesis 2:24} as well as within the marriage – adultery. Again, take note of verse 7, ‘wherein ye also once walked’, and note the past tense. The bondage to sin is broken by Christ and His cross, those who’ve been born again are no longer enslaved to sin {Romans 6 is worth reading concerning this subject}.
      Now, if there is someone within the true church who is caught in sexual sin, church discipline must be implemented…

      1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in my epistle to have no company with fornicators;
      1Co 5:10 not at all meaning with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous and extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world:
      1Co 5:11 but as it is, I wrote unto you not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no, not to eat.
      1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging them that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within?
      1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Put away the wicked man from among yourselves.

      I highly recommend you read the entire chapter. Paul spoke of sexual sin and instructed the church how God states we should deal with it – they must be removed from the church.
      Your human wisdom cannot be supported anywhere in the Bible, those who truly belong to Christ MUST repent, they must forsake their sins and spend the rest of their days mortifying, or putting to death, sin. If excuses are made to justify sin and relish in it, as you are doing, then know this – God’s word says you will not enter His kingdom.
      1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.
      1Jn 3:7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;
      1Jn 3:8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
      1Jn 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
      1Jn 3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

      To speak this truth to homosexuals is not hate, to withhold biblical truth as most do is in fact hate. Yes, there are a ‘set of rules’ to follow, but those who belong to Christ do not see them as rules. Walking worthy, striving for holiness, ‘for without holiness no one will see the Lord’, mortifying sin, dying to ‘self’, battling the flesh, the devil and the world, not loving the world, not being like the world but walking contrary to the world, and seeking to bring Him glory are desires of the true regenerate follower of Christ. All this is done under the power, guidance, instruction and wisdom of the Spirit.

      We must be hearers AND doers of the word, as James states. Not so we can be saved, BUT because we ARE saved!

      If a homosexual is still lusting in their heart for the same sex, they must be warned from Scripture. IF they refuse to forsake their lust, they must be put out of the church so as to keep Christ’s church ‘pure’. Sadly, most churches in America have no understanding of biblical truth and embrace sinners who are not born again, who make mere verbal professions- as if that were enough. You need to understand this, it is not hate to proclaim the whole counsel of God to sinners. Your humanistic views on what you think the church should be and include go directly against what God states. You are clueless to the holiness of God and His absolute hatred of sin. He WILL judge all who walk in disobedience and rebel to His truth. True hate is to deny His truth and disobey that truth.

  3. Eric July 1, 2015 at 1:34 pm #

    I am sorry that the world has clouded your eyes. There is so much I could comment on in your post, so many isolated verses, so much scripture being misused. I am going to hold my tongue.
    Here is an analogy:
    If you don’t believe in drinking alcohol to get drunk, then congrats. That is what the Bible says. It is truth. But you need to be smart about where and when you say that truth. If you go up to someone nursing his mug and say “drinking is wrong”, how do you think he is going to react? We are causing more harm by stating what we believe then by standing by the person as he tries to recover. Your language in your post suggests judgment on those in the LGBT. If you can honestly tell me that there is no sin you struggle with, then you are as holy as Jesus. The truth is that we are not perfect. Everyday is a new battle against sin. Our desire is what marks us different from the world, it is not our actions. Our actions display our beliefs and our desires. And we are not called to force those onto others.

    You have missed my point about homosexuality. Sure, there are those that struggle with lust. There are also those that don’t. You cannot lump all of them into one group. I know that there are some that are studying the Bible right now and following after God. If a gay couple can grow closer to God by being in a relationship, which they definitely can, then you have no right telling them they are sinning. Everyone comes to the cross in humility. If you believe you are better than someone else, go reread your Bible. You do not have to compromise what you believe to love someone. That is what I am trying to say. They are human and made in the image. Do not belittle God’s children.

    If you want a better explanation, check out this post. It sums it up pretty well.
    http://tkoalas-hope4tomorrow.blogspot.com/2015/06/lovewins-stopthehate-apology.html?m=1

    • lyn July 1, 2015 at 3:55 pm #

      Eric,
      Where does the bible state we should not point sinners to their sins? So, was Christ out of line when He pointed the woman at the well to her sin of adultery by telling her this, “Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.”
      Sinners react on one of two ways upon hearing God’s truth, they will either be like those in Acts 2:37, ” Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
      Or, they will respond in this manner, ” When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.” Acts 7:54
      It isn’t the messenger, it is the message unregenerate sinners hate to hear.

      Can you show where this comment from you is warranted -“I am sorry that the world has clouded your eyes”? Please, back your accusations with proof and scripture.
      Also, can you show from scripture where it’s okay to lust for any length of time and not mortify your lust, as Paul speaks of in Colossians 3? Do you understand that if you have been born from above you will NOT desire sexual perversion of any kind in your heart? Why? Because as God’s word states, “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” 1 John 3:9

      Where did I state I was sinless? If you are going to accuse me of sin, then you’d better have a direct quote from me pointing me to my sin and scripture to prove your accusation. Otherwise, your attack is unwarranted.

      You state this, ” Our desire is what marks us different from the world, it is not our actions. Our actions display our beliefs and our desires. And we are not called to force those onto others.” Can you back any of that with scripture? What makes true, born again believers different from the world is the indwelling Holy Spirit, the new birth, and the walking in obedience to His word. It is our actions, desires, and way of living that distinguish the true from the false – I highly recommend you read 1 John chapter 3.

      You also state this, ” If a gay couple can grow closer to God by being in a relationship, which they definitely can, then you have no right telling them they are sinning.” Chapter and verse please!
      Here’s what God’s word says, ‘repent, or perish’ Luke 13:3
      There is no such thing as a homosexual Christian, and God’s word has already been given to you to prove you wrong. You refuse to hear, you suppress the truth, just like Romans 1 speaks of. If you cleave to sin, you will perish. You remain under God’s wrath and will face His judgment. Are those words harsh? They are to those who refuse to acknowledge sin and flee from it. If anyone truly studies the bible, then they will see God calls this sin an abomination, and states that this sin defiles. Christ taught that in Matthew 15:19,20 when He said “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.These are the things which defile the man” ‘Fornications’ is defined by Thayer’s Greek Definitions as
      Greek- porneia
      Thayer Definition:
      1) illicit sexual intercourse
      1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
      1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
      1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman;

      Take note what Christ says, the sin of homosexuality ‘defiles’ or makes unclean. Now, heed the warning found in Revelation 21:27, ” And there shall in no wise enter into it {heaven} any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.” So, if you are lusting after the same sex, you are NOT going to heaven. This is the truth of God’s word; it is not me you have a problem with, it’s God’s unadulterated truth. ‘Whatsoever worketh abomination’ is noteworthy as well when compared to Leviticus 18:22 – ‘Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.’

      Now, you also claim ” Everyone comes to the cross in humility.” Those who God has broken over their sins are the ones who truly come to Christ, that doesn’t mean everybody and it surely doesn’t mean those who still lust for the same sex. Lusting is NOT a sign of brokenness, nor is it a sign of true humility. ” The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” Psalm 51:17 I encourage you to read Psalm 51, it’s a display of what true repentance looks like as David confesses and cries out to his God.

      If you want to debate, then do so biblically and not with links to some post you penned. Use God’s word, and not your opinions laced with unwarranted false accusations.

    • Eric July 1, 2015 at 3:55 pm #

      Sorry, posted the mobile version. Here’s the desktop:
      http://tkoalas-hope4tomorrow.blogspot.com/2015/06/lovewins-stopthehate-apology.html?

      • lyn July 1, 2015 at 4:15 pm #

        I won’t read your posts, I can already tell from your comments you are void of biblical truth. You seek to cover over sin and disguise that cover as ‘love’. Those who adhere strictly to the bible and speak God’s truth plainly are labeled as ‘hate’ and ‘homophobes’.
        God saved me out of the sin of lesbianism, so by His saving grace and because of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection – I know the true truth and I know the damnation that awaits sinners like yourself who seek to disguise your filth as ‘love’. I know that all sin is a bondage that you cannot free yourself from sin, and that unless God has mercy on you and you are born from above by God the Spirit, you will never rightly discern and you will continue to cleave to your sins because all sinners love darkness more than light. You are making a ‘god’ of your own understanding – a ‘god’ that is okay with your lust and will accept you with your sin baggage. However, that ‘god’ is not the same thrice-holy God the Bible proclaims. God is exalted high above His creation, separate from it, pure, undefiled, too pure to even look upon sin {Habakkuk 1:13} He is not kidding when He says “The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty” Exodus 34:6-7

        • Eric July 1, 2015 at 8:14 pm #

          Okay, obviously we have a bit of different views. Let us start from the beginning. How does one become a Christian? Is there anything you can do to earn your salvation? What if I have done really bad things? Will God still love me? Can he forgive all of that? And if I go to church every weekend, and I go to youth group, and I volunteer at a camp every summer, that is good enough for God, isn’t it?

  4. Eric July 1, 2015 at 4:51 pm #

    You upset me. You take verses that are not talking about the topic, homosexuality. When you refer to others as sinnners, you are identifying yourself as better than them. Until we get to heaven, we are stuck in the flesh. That includes our sin nature.

    Romans 7:14-24
    14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
    21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

    Paul is not saying that we stuck in the flesh and can do nothing about it. But he saying that while we are still in the mission field, we are still going to be tempted. And because one is tempted does not make it sinful. Giving in to the temptation is sinful. I am saying this to clarify in case I didn’t make that clear.

    Jesus did not point at the woman. Pointing is offensive, shows you are better than them. Jesus called her out because he knew she was open to listening and he cared for about salvation. But he is also asserting his authority as the messiah. We are not Jesus, and to pretend to be would be wrong. We are broken people.

    Romans 3:23-24
    23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;

    Anyone can receive this gift if they have not. There is no criteria for it, it is free (John 3:16). If your goal is not to bring them to God, then why are you pointing out their sin? What I have seen too much of is Christians shoving their beliefs down other peoples’ throats. This I do not stand for. I am trying to make sure that you are not doing that.

    I do not like the translation you used. It only confuses me. While they will either receive what you say with an open or closed heart, there are so many ways they can display how they feel about it. They could put up a mask, or they could be honest. You do not know. You need to be willing to teach them the meaning of what you are saying, and you also need to be willing to show them Jesus if they do not know him. But if someone were to come up to me and start accusing me, I would not be open to listening. Maybe that’s a personal reaction, but I have dealt with enough people to know it is not. People will naturally defend themselves when they feel attacked.

    Why do you need a verse to show you that two people can grow closer to God in a relationship????? Their flippin’ gender does not matter! They feel things just like straight people do. If you can find me a verse that shows that they are any different than a straight person, then do it. I have found none.

    And your comment on porneia makes me laugh. It proves my point even more. The only thing the Bible condemns is sex between the same gender (and by extension, lust). Another word used is arsenkoites, which I think I mentioned above.

    Do not blind yourself into thinking that a gay relationship NEEDS to be sexual or that it is based on lust. It can be based on feelings, love, and all the other things a straight one can be. Why do I need to make the clarification between a straight and gay relationship? I really shouldn’t need to. They are that close to each other.

    But If you want to go there, I can just as easily make the same derogatory statement about straight relationships. The only difference is that the scripture does talk about straight relationships and does not talk about gay ones. When I say “does not talk about them”, I mean it. God never talks about them. No “in their favor” or “against them” verses in the Bible. If you can find one, show me. He wants us to analyze the scriptures for ourselves and make the connection. The connection I have made is that if the relationship can bring them closer to God, in any way, whether it be helping them with the past, assisting in tough times, or by reading scripture, then there is fruit in the relationship. And if there is fruit, can you tell me it is bad for them to be together? Do not jump to conclusions or take it further. In this situation they are celibate. Find scripture to tear that one down.

    I never said they come to the cross in lust. I said humility. My point was that you come to the cross, I come to the cross, Joe-Shmoe down the road comes to the cross. Whoever comes has to let go of any pride they have. Everyone is at the same level and no one is better than the other. What I have seen when reading your posts is you feel superior to the gay. If I am wrong, correct me. But if I am not, why? No sin is greater than another (James 2:10).

    And on your last point using Revelation, if we have accepted the free gift of grace, then our slate is wiped clean. We have no sin in God’s eyes. It does not matter how dirty your board is or has been. As long as we are pursuing a relationship with God, than we are sinless and blameless. If they pursue the same sex for other reasons than lust, and if they accept the message of Jesus and follow him, then they are going to heaven. No doubt about it. If I need scripture for that, I am sorry, but open your Bible and your ears.
    I can see a counterpoint you might make. “you can’t just say the words. you need to mean it.” If they are actually saying the words and actually wanting Jesus, than it will change their lives. It does not matter their past.

    • lyn July 1, 2015 at 6:01 pm #

      First of all, telling sinners they are sinners IS biblical, and second of all, NOWHERE did I state I wasn’t. Prove your accusations, and if you cannot, then stop falsely accusing. You cannot know what my thoughts and intentions are/were, so stop acting like you do.

      Yes, we still battle the flesh, however, that doesn’t mean we make excuses for lust does it? Romans 7 is a teaching concerning the battle between the flesh and the new, redeemed nature. It isn’t to be used to excuse sin.
      Can you show me a scripture that states it’s okay to continually, habitually lust and never mortify that lust? I await your response.

      Now, Paul also says this, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:1-2
      We are in a spiritual battle against our flesh, the world and the devil. That does NOT mean we can make excuses for the same besetting sins and cry out how we ‘struggle’, especially when it comes to sexual sin.

      You ask this, “Why do you need a verse to show you that two people can grow closer to God in a relationship????? Their flippin’ gender does not matter! ” However, you left out some very important details from your original comment, so let me refresh your memory – ” If a gay couple can grow closer to God by being in a relationship, which they definitely can, then you have no right telling them they are sinning. ” You are saying that a homosexual couple can grow closer to God as they stay in their sin of abomination, and I have no right to tell them of their sins? Really? Can you point to scripture that backs your opinion? Where does the Bible say you can remain a homosexual and enter heaven?

      As for your humanistic view that prompted you to say this, “Do not blind yourself into thinking that a gay relationship NEEDS to be sexual or that it is based on lust.” What does the word of God say? “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another” Romans 1:27a. You see, God says your perversion is based on a burning lust and not love – who is correct, you or God? Repent of your perversion Eric, or you will die in your sins and face God’s wrath. You seek to go down rabbit trails to justify your abomination, which God detests. You are in sexual sin, and God must punish all who refuse to repent of their sins, even in their THOUGHT LIFE! As was already pointed out from Matthew 5:28, even if you never have sex with a man, and if you are a homosexual, you will have sex with men – if you even think of men in your thought life, you are guilty. Christ taught that as I stated in my previous comment.

      My comment on porneia was straight from the word of the Lord and included the definition of the original language of the New Testament – koine greek. You laugh at God’s word? Very telling….

      It is very obvious from your responses you have no clue what being born again means and why it is essential if a sinner is to be saved. You are void of the Spirit of God and cannot discern spiritual matters, so you resort to your opinions and personal unwarranted attacks.

      No sin is greater than another? Really? Then why did Paul state this- ” Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body” 1 Cor. 6:18
      It’s apparent, sexual sin is worse than others because it entangles the mind and body – the whole ‘man’. Once again, the word of God proves you to be in error.

      You accuse me of feeling superior, so again, where did I state this? Please, stop with your false accusations and fall on your face and plead with the thrice holy God of heaven to truly save you. Those God saves will flee sin, even in their thought life. You have no understanding of 1 John 3 and apparently refuse to read it – too bad. It would prove you are still in your sins.

      You claim ‘if we have accepted the free gift of grace’ – that phraseology cannot be supported by scripture. If you assume you are a ‘Christian’ based on a mere verbal profession, you are in error. This is the danger of the accursed gospel that says you can accept Jesus or invite him into your heart. Nowhere is that found or taught in God’s word. The Gospel goes forth, and those whom the Father draws {see John 6:44} will come. Those that have been born again by God the Spirit will respond {see John 1:13 and John 3:3-8} Do heed this, ‘For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that {grace plus faith} not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.’ Ephesians 2:8-9
      So, salvation does not rest on your decision, it rests totally upon the Lord and His mercy, mercy available only because of Christ’s atoning work on the cross and His resurrection.

      Lastly, you make this outlandish claim, “If they pursue the same sex for other reasons than lust, and if they accept the message of Jesus and follow him, then they are going to heaven. No doubt about it. If I need scripture for that, I am sorry, but open your Bible and your ears.” Yes ! You absolutely DO need to back your view with scripture, and if you cannot, then you are obviously wrong. I can save you the trouble, nowhere does God condone homosexuality…period.
      May this warning cause you to tremble with great fear…
      Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
      Mat 7:22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
      Mat 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’
      If you are with the same sex, you are in sin. If you are thinking continually about the same sex, you are in sin – read Matthew 5:28 on the thought life and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 on men with men. Your refusal to call homosexuality sin, even if you are celibate and yet still desire men in your heart – will send you to hell. That is the truth as found in the holy word of God.

  5. Eric July 1, 2015 at 8:16 pm #

    kay, obviously we have a bit of different views. Let us start from the beginning. How does one become a Christian? Is there anything you can do to earn your salvation? What if I have done really bad things? Will God still love me? Can he forgive all of that? And if I go to church every weekend, and I go to youth group, and I volunteer at a camp every summer, that is good enough for God, isn’t it?

    • Eric July 1, 2015 at 8:17 pm #

      “okay” is what I meant to put there.

    • lyn July 1, 2015 at 9:04 pm #

      It doesn’t matter what my opinions and views are, or yours. The thinking of God’s people must line up with His word, the mind must be renewed by the continual feasting upon the word {Romans 12:2}. With that said, let’s look at your questions and then at God’s word….

      How does one become a Christian? By believing on the Lord Jesus, which includes a confessing of and forsaking of sin. Now, how does one believe? Is this a work of man or of God? What does the word of the Lord say?
      “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” John 6:44a
      “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9
      “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3
      True followers of Christ will repent of their sins, and they will no longer practice those same, besetting sins day in and day out. That does not mean we do not battle sin, for we do. However, we are no longer enslaved to sin and have power through Christ to be free from sins’ bondage.

      From what you say, it seems you are trusting in your own works to save you. Your comment sounds a lot like the prayer of the Pharisee…

      “The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’
      See the similarities? He was pointing to his good works as a means of being right with God. God has to accept our works as good enough to be declared in right standing with Him correct? Wrong. Look at Isaiah 64:6, “But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags” Here is the problem with trusting in your own works as being good enough that God must accept them…you are negating what Christ did on the cross. Plus, you/we are all sinners and all fall short of the glory of God. With that said, how can your/myworks justify us before a thrice-holy God who is too pure to look upon sin? There had to be a sacrifice for sin, the only acceptable sacrifice was the sinless Lamb of God. When you start trusting in church attendance and church ‘busyness’ as a means to be saved, you need to meditate upon Ephesians 2:8-9.
      Can God forgive sinners? Yes, of course – after all, Christ died for the ungodly and NOT the self-righteous ‘look at my good deeds’ type. Now, let’s go back to Luke momentarily; I ask you to ponder the tax collector’s prayer…
      “But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I will add this commentary from Matthew Henry for you to consider – ” Here is the publican’s address to God, which was the reverse of the Pharisee’s, as full of humility and humiliation as his was of pride and ostentation; as full of repentance for sin, and desire towards God, as his was of confidence in himself and his own righteousness and sufficiency.
      1. He expressed his repentance and humility in what he did; and his gesture, when he addressed himself to his devotions, was expressive of great seriousness and humility, and the proper clothing of a broken, penitent, and obedient heart. (1.) He stood afar off. The Pharisee stood, but crowded up as high as he could, to the upper end of the court; the publican kept at a distance under a sense of his unworthiness to draw near to God, and perhaps for fear of offending the Pharisee, whom he observed to look scornfully upon him, and of disturbing his devotions. Hereby he owned that God might justly behold him afar off, and send him into a state of eternal distance from him, and that it was a great favour that God was pleased to admit him thus nigh. (2.) He would not lift up so much as his eyes to heaven, much less his hands, as was usual in prayer. He did lift up his heart to God in the heavens, in holy desires, but, through prevailing shame and humiliation, he did not lift up his eyes in holy confidence and courage. His iniquities are gone over his head, as a heavy burden, so that he is not able to look up, Psa_40:12. The dejection of his looks is an indication of the dejection of his mind at the thought of sin. (3.) He smote upon his breast, in a holy indignation at himself for sin: “Thus would I smite this wicked heart of mine, the poisoned fountain out of which flow all the streams of sin, if I could come at it.” The sinner’s heart first smites him in a penitent rebuke, 2Sa_24:10. David’s heart smote him. Sinner, what hast thou done? And then he smites his heart with penitent remorse: O wretched man that I am? Ephraim is said to smite upon his thigh, Jer_31:19. Great mourners are represented tabouring upon their breasts, Nah_2:7.
      2. He expressed it in what he said. His prayer was short. Fear and shame hindered him from saying much; sighs and groans swallowed up his words; but what he said was to the purpose: God, be merciful to me a sinner. And blessed be God that we have this prayer upon record as an answered prayer, and that we are sure that he who prayed it went to his house justified; and so shall we, if we pray it, as he did, through Jesus Christ: “God, be merciful to me a sinner; the God of infinite mercy be merciful to me, for, if he be not, I am for ever undone, for ever miserable. God be merciful to me, for I have been cruel to myself.” (1.) He owns himself a sinner by nature, by practice, guilty before God. Behold, I am vile, what shall I answer thee? The Pharisee denies himself to be a sinner; none of his neighbours can charge him, and he sees no reason to charge himself, with any thing amiss; he is clean, he is pure from sin. But the publican gives himself no other character than that of a sinner, a convicted criminal at God’s bar. (2.) He has no dependence but upon the mercy of God, that, and that only, he relies upon. The Pharisee had insisted upon the merit of his fastings and tithes; but the poor publican disclaims all thought of merit, and flies to mercy as his city of refuge, and takes hold of the horn of that altar. “Justice condemns me; nothing will save me but mercy, mercy.” (3.) He earnestly prays for the benefit of that mercy: “O God, be merciful, be propitious, to me; forgive my sins; be reconciled to me; take me into thy favour; receive me graciously; love me freely.” He comes as a beggar for an alms, when he is ready to perish for hunger. Probably he repeated this prayer with renewed affections, and perhaps said more to the same purport, made a particular confession of his sins, and mentioned the particular mercies he wanted, and waited upon God for; but still this was the burden of the song: God, be merciful to me a sinner.” – Matthew Henry

      Take note, the tax collector was utterly dependant upon the mercy of God to save him, he never spoke of any of his works, for he knew they were not good enough. Your works aren’t good enough either Eric, and neither are mine. To trust entirely in what Christ has already done in atoning for sin is what’s needed. Your greatest need is to cry out just as the tax collector did – ‘God be merciful to me a sinner’.

      • Eric July 2, 2015 at 1:31 pm #

        Can we continue this through email, lyn? My email is “tkoalas@gmail.com” if you are willing to.

        But in case you don’t want to continue this over email, I will include the following for clarification. The questions I asked were not actual questions that I needed the answer to. I already know how to answer those. What I was doing was targeting the response. I wanted to know an answer to the first question I asked, “how does one become a christian”, without letting you go off on a side-tangent not answering the question that I was asking (rather you would be answering the question as you think I was asking it). It was to provide direction and clarification to my question so you knew what I wanted to know. I wanted to make sure that you and I believe the same thing, and for the most part, we do.

        • lyn July 2, 2015 at 1:51 pm #

          Sure thing. I am on my way to work and will be home around 11:30 tonight. I would LOVE to continue talking with you, so please, e-mail me at laurielynbern@hotmail.com.
          Have a nice day Eric 🙂

  6. BERRY FARMER October 26, 2015 at 4:19 am #

    All this babble! The LGBT issue is often a distraction to divert attention away from other falsehoods. It can understood simply like this. Is homosexuality a sin? Does the Bible say “male and or female He created them”?Should any sinner or group of sinners get special recognition for their specific sin? Should those putting forth lust for women get special recognition for their sin? How about murderers? Do each of us want special recognition for our sin? Let your yes be yes and your no be no. No buts. What is the basis of God’s love? Psalm 5:5 states ‘The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity.’ We must understand our depravity! We must understand who our natural father is! This is why adoption is our only hope! This is why God had to carry this out before the foundation of the world, before sin and sinners existed! See Ephesian 1! Most churches have taken predestination and ruled it controversial for teaching and preaching. They have turned it into an argument about being chosen or choosing. It is about our sinful nature, depravity and who are natural father is; contrasted with God’s nature and who He is. Of course we can not understand sin when this is avoided. What do we get preached and taught instead? PEACE AND SAFETY! Does everyone who proclaims Him Lord enter the kingdom of heaven? Many pastors correctly state that LGBT issues are sinful and many in the congregations shout “amens” and wave their arms around. That is fine. But when did you hear a sermon preached on eschatology, predestination, spiritual gifts or some other “man deemed controversial subject” from the Bible. Beware! Are we exempt from prophecy? Does our own “peace and safety” trump God’s word? Wake up! Beg God for mercy! Watch for His Son! Believe His words!

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