Pastors, it’s time to audit what your women are studying

screen-shot-2016-10-29-at-4-51-15-pmMany, MANY churches have latched on to some of the most dangerous teachers in Christendom, and you’ll find the worst of the worst in the studies your women are doing.  We’ve been warning women’s ministries about several such teachers, which you can read more about in the links at the bottom of this article. One in particular is Jen Hatmaker. This past week, the famed author made a huge public affirmation of homosexual relationships. In the days that followed, LifeWay Christian Books pulled all of Jen and Brandon Hatmaker’s products from their shelves.

The Southern Baptist chain stated Thursday that the author’s statements “contradict LifeWay’s doctrinal guidelines,” and it has discontinued selling her books in its 185 stores or online. Spokesman Marty King said:
In the past, LifeWay Christian Resources published several resources with Jen Hatmaker. In a recent interview, she voiced significant changes in her theology of human sexuality and the meaning and definition of marriage—changes which contradict LifeWay’s doctrinal guidelines.
I wonder if LifeWay has similar guidelines for the false doctrine pushed in other popular books it sells?   After all, is Hatmaker’s gay affirming stance worse than misrepresenting the nature and character of God, and obliterating Sola Scriptura, as so many other authors do?

Hatmaker’s statement was made in a recent article on RNS, in which Hatmaker was interviewed by Jonathan Merritt, who asked, “Politically-speaking, do you support gay marriage?”

Her response:

From a civil rights and civil liberties side and from just a human being side, any two adults have the right to choose who they want to love. And they should be afforded the same legal protections as any of us. I would never wish anything less for my gay friends.

From a spiritual perspective, since gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, our communities have plenty of gay couples who, just like the rest of us, need marriage support and parenting help and Christian community. They are either going to find those resources in the church or they are not.

Not only are these our neighbors and friends, but they are brothers and sisters in Christ. They are adopted into the same family as the rest of us, and the church hasn’t treated the LGBT community like family. We have to do better.

And almost immediately, this:

Matthew Vines

Matthew Vines

“Big news today: Jen Hatmaker, a bestselling Christian author and a leading figure among evangelical women, has announced that she affirms same-sex relationships!”

That’s the big headline from Matthew Vines, author of God and the Gay Christian, this evening. In an email to his Reformation Project friends and supporters, Vines points his readers tothe biggest endorsement of all: That Hatmaker believes LGBT relationships can be holy.

Hatmaker came out months ago in support of homosexuals in the (visible) church. See, Jen Hatmaker: “Christians should open wide their churches to LGBT community”.  Matthew Vines is excited not because Hatmaker affirms sin, but because she has now stopped calling homosexuality sin. Vines says that’s a big change from two years ago, when Hatmaker wrote her widely-shared blog post articulating her compassionate but non-affirming stance on same-sex relationships:

“While clearly loving in intent, it still hurt for many of us to read that she saw our relationships as sinful. But in recent months, Jen has become increasingly outspoken about her passion for LGBT dignity and inclusion, and with her statements today, she becomes one of the highest-profile evangelical leaders to affirm same-sex relationships.”

screen-shot-2016-10-29-at-4-57-03-pmHatmaker is the darling of many a Christian women’s conference, and is the author of some very troubling books that have found their way into women’s ministry. (See: 4 Concerns about Jen Hatmaker’s Teachings, and another slew after reviewing her “bible study” book that dips into sorcery: 7: An Experimental Mutiny Against Excess”).

Matthew Vines’ Reformation Project is a grass-roots effort to get all churches to affirm homosexuality, by campaigning for loving discussions with unsuspecting church leaders – who often soften their positions when they befriend these members. (See: Matthew Vines’ Reformation Strategy: Will it reshape the visible church?)

“This is a very big deal,” Vines says of Hatmaker. “I hope and expect that we’ll hear more from her in the weeks and months to come, and that she’ll explicitly affirm bisexual and transgender people as well. She’ll likely get a lot of blowback for her statements affirming same-sex relationships today, so let’s thank her for standing with us.”

Pastors, can we finally once and for all purge Hatmaker’s anti-biblical influence from your women’s ministries?

Related Reading:

  1. The Christian Woman’s Guide to Conversing With Bereans
  2. “Woman, just try harder!”
  3. War Room’s Priscilla Shirer’s Contemplative History, and Why It Matters
  4. Leaving Lysa: Why You Shouldn’t Be Following Lysa TerKeurst or Proverbs 31 Ministries
  5. Need help exchanging “whispers with God”?
  6. Evaluating Beth Moore’s Upcoming Live Simulcast
  7. Six reasons not to follow Christine Caine
  8. Complementarian John Piper shares teaching duties with a woman?
  9. Oleo on the buffet line is not what your women’s ministries need.
  10. In Case You Were Wondering: Are Female Bloggers Violating Scripture by “Teaching” Men?


20 Responses to Pastors, it’s time to audit what your women are studying

  1. noel October 29, 2016 at 6:49 pm #

    Hi to every one who BELIEVES.????? Christ talked about the leaven of the Pharrises / Saduces ITS IN THE AIR. Mt24 says lo he is here BELIEVE IT NOT. For many will come in my NAME decieving many…Nothing new. History doesnt change anything. It just repeats itself .IN a larger mass of humanity. Solomon asked God for WISDOM.and GOD gave it to him.+++++++++ but by the end of his life journey an interesting OBSERVATION was stated in the last few vrs of ECCLESIASTE. It goes like this. And further my son be admonished by these All the vrs before .OF MAKING MANY BOOKS THERE IS NO END and much study is wearisome to the flesh . .PROFUND words here for last days TIMES.///////VRS13 Where is this REVENTIAL RESPECT FOR GODS WORDS .There seems to be more to MANS BOOKS AND WORDS than GODS….As it was in the beggining LUCIFER used WORDS to decieve.. .Also as CHRIST answered him after 40 days of fasting in the wilderness. THE DEVIL still used THE WRITTEN WORDS OF twist and turn CHRIST away from the FATHERS WILL for man kind. How much more today MUST we be discerning on what many write today??? For money. Thus being only HIRELINGS .The type who will flee when the WOLF comes not sparing the FLOCK. We the BELIEVERS are in this whether we like it or not.The hour is now come and NOW IS Where the TRUE WORSHIPPER MUST WORSHIP IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH. The letters state hard fierce and perilous TIMES ahead Take heart my BRO and SIS. And HAVING DONE ALL STAND. Shalom.

  2. Edwitness October 30, 2016 at 10:52 am #

    I find it incredible that a Christian can have in their repertoire this sentence; “I would never wish anything less for MY GAY FRIENDS.”
    Is it possible for a Christian to have as friends homosexuals? Or any other obviously degenerate types? No!
    If you are really a Christian, they will have nothing to do with you. Anymore than they had to do with Jesus. Your witness and testimony will do what God says His word does. It will not return void. It will accomplish what it is meant to do.
    They will either repent and receive Jesus, or they will reject Him and you. As Jesus said “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.” Mt.12:30
    If you find that you are comfortable having friendships with degenerates then you need to check your status as one that belongs to the house of faith.
    James 4:4 “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”


  3. Manny1962 October 30, 2016 at 12:23 pm #

    Amen Ed! Jesus said He came to divided. As I always say, God seperates. If one is living a godly life, you will be shunned, avoided and spoken evil of. Jesus said if you are hated by the world for His name’s sake consider it a blessing, as the world hated Him first! We can reach out to homosexuals, pagans, heretics and even the wolves behind the pulpits as those that need the gospels, but friends…….NO.

    • noel rochford October 30, 2016 at 3:15 pm #

      To see you say that his Word doesnt return void it will do what he has sent it to do. Then we must stay with what CHRIST said in Mrk16 . He that believeth and is baptised to he that BELIEVETH NOT .Definetly a great seperation here for a reason? Christ here doesnt identify seperate social types or behavours but sinners. You said// they will repent and will recieve JESUS or they will reject him. JHN3 is a very good example of a leader of the Jews not knowing what CHRIST was saying .YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN. I look every where in CHRISIDOM to find any one saying these words any more in their doctrines and statements of FAITH. The only true reference on the day of PENTECOST was Peter quoting JOEL. then David +++++++ to verses36 through tovrs47 .Peters summanary in vrs 38 was the first salvation doctrine stated on what to do to be born again.Not the Romans road to salvation in chp 10.Nicodemus was not there yet but he was there on Pentecost. I wonder what the cross section of believers were on that day .I do know what the reaction of non believers was harrasment and persecution on their part but seperation and santification and justification for any who dare to believe even to. the degenerate ones. And yes i do agree that to have freindship with the WORLD is a NO. But then WE ARE NOT OF THIS WORLD. WE are the ECCLASIA.praise the LORD. A request. Would you please read 2 cor 6 for me a reply would be good .Shalom.

      • Edwitness October 31, 2016 at 9:53 am #

        Noel Rochford,
        2Cor.6 explains our relationship with the world. Paul begins with the treatment he has received since his conversion.
        In vs 6-12 he explains his response to this treatment.
        In vs 11-13 he makes it apply personally to those at corinth to whom he is writing. The explanation makes the main point that they are to avoid friendships with the world. They are not to yoke themselves together with unbelievers. Because light has no fellowship with darkness. Friendships with the world is enmity with God.
        And if you are living as a witness for Jesus the world will reject you anyway, just as it rejects Him.

  4. Andy November 1, 2016 at 6:36 am #

    Wonderful responses: misspelt, capitalized and grammatically mangled. Most of all they’re entirely without compassion. Didn’t Jesus say ‘judge not that ye be not judged’? Oh my, yes he did (Matthew 7.1). Good job his commands are optional.

    • Stephen James Schneider November 2, 2016 at 2:31 am #

      Reply to Andy on his post dated November 1, 2016:

      I hope that you are checking back on this forum to see if any new posts (including replies) have been made. I choose to ignore spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, as I understand that some of us are better writers than others –we all have our strengths and our weaknesses — and that posters can be in a rush to share their opinions on the article being commented on. Zeal for the Lord is not a bad thing! It’s the ideas being expressed that count, not the spelling and grammar.

      I advise you to reread the comments that have been made. I believe several do show compassion, but also conviction of belief. Look them over, study them a bit, and I believe you’ll see what I’m talking about.

      With respect to quoting Matthew 7:1, that’s a bit like waving a cape at a bull for many Christians. Ms. Marsha Walsh wrote a very interesting article on the subject that you can find at:

      I submitted two REALLY LONG posts positively criticizing her article that (I believe) refute some of her conclusions, but they are SO LONG and detailed that they are not on the forum at present, because they need to be edited so that they will appear the way I intended them to post.

      I don’t know how long it will take to tidy up the posts and put them back on the forum (but I trust the folks at Berean Research will do so as soon as they have the time) so that anyone who wants to read them can. That way they can evaluate both sides of the debate.

      If you like, contact me at and I’ll send them to you. Just read (or reread) the article and the other posts made concerning the article first.

    • Manny1962 November 4, 2016 at 9:03 pm #

      Hello Andy,

      Sometimes the technology cause errors, in my case my iPad’s keyboard sometimes puts in its own words.

      This is not why I’m replying.

      Jesus was speaking of personal, hypocritical judging, such as the plank in the eye example. Righteous judgement is demanded of Christians, how else can we know what we are being taught jives with Scripture? Or how can we know if someone is false or true, a wolf or a shepherd? We must be careful of not loving a person straight to condemnation, because we are afraid to be labeled unloving, unbrotherly or the favorite of apostates everywhere, “judgemental.” Many can’t bear to have their hypocritical egos bruised, so they accept sin, compromise, look the other way while the poor soul languishes in sin and slides straight into hell. What did Paul command? Preach in season and out of season, preach the truth and be aware that many will not believe and many might become violent toward the truth. Something that is very common today in Churchianity, its trademark: coddling, non-confrontationist, non-judgemental, inclusive, compromising, heretical, and mostly non-discerning. All these Paul warned about……….many will come in Jesus name, having a form of godliness, but denying.

  5. Stephen James Schneider November 1, 2016 at 7:03 am #

    Hello everyone:

    Before I begin, I would like to point out that I have been a Christian (Roman Catholic) since only January 2016 and have (thus far) read approx. 2/3 of the (New American Version) of the Bible. I therefore request that anyone commenting on this post not jump down my throat as I’ve noticed some folks posting on these forums have a tendency to do.

    To be clear, none of the posts above are the sort of posts I am referring to. These posts are very well-stated and positive, and explain the Bible’s (and therefore God’s) position on LGB relationships.

    I ask posters to please provide me with detailed positive criticism, along with biblical verses that support your feedback, if you feel anything in this post is incorrect, as I believe that this will help me progress in my faith as a Christian.

    Also, when posting, could folks INCLUDE what denomination they are, whether they read the Bible and how often, and whether they are saying what they have read in the Bible WITH THEIR OWN EYES or whether they are saying what they have BEEN TOLD by someone else the Bible says? This is very useful info as it tells others where you are coming from.

    In my case, I’m a Roman Catholic (as I’ve already said), I read the Bible almost every day, and (of course) with my own eyes.

    I can understand that Christians that are in LGB relationships want to have a relationship with God, and that is a wonderful thing, but are not YET able to separate themselves from the relationships/behaviours that are in turn maintaining a separation between God and themselves. In other aspects, these Christians may be very devout. However, that cannot make homosexuality O.K., although I cannot pretend to know the mind of God (even though I have the mind of Christ, who is God consubstantial with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit).

    One thing that is clear to me is that Jesus died for ALL of our sins, and that includes homosexuality. However, the Bible clearly states that it is not what God intended. Indeed, had Adam and Eve not sinned, I believe that nobody would be born with these urges.

    Since salvation comes through faith in Christ Jesus, I believe that Christians in LGB relationships may well be saved. As to how they will be judged by Jesus with respect to their not being able to put an end to the LGB marriages that they are in, that I do not know.

    I can certainly see how harsh it must seem (from a human perspective) to be told that you must live a completely celibate life in order to grow in your relationship with God. Imagine how difficult it would be for heterosexual Christians if we were told that we had to live completely celibate lives in order to grow closer to God!

    Jen Hatmaker said:

    “From a civil rights and civil liberties side and from just a human being side, any two adults have the right to choose who they want to love. And they should be afforded the same legal protections as any of us.”

    I agree completely. While I have died to the world, I can see how this makes sense for those who do live in the world. As Christians, it is not for us to try to fight for the moral issues we believe to be correct. Getting involved in politics and public policy is not being dead to the world.

    However, then Jen Hatmaker states:

    “From a spiritual perspective, since gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, our communities have plenty of gay couples who, just like the rest of us, need marriage support and parenting help and Christian community. They are either going to find those resources in the church or they are not.”

    This is where her reasoning crumbles. Gay marriage being legal in 50 states has no bearing on a spiritual perspective.

    I do believe, however, that LGBT Christians should not be barred from worshipping God in one’s church. To do so would be to pass judgement on who is fit to come before God and who is not. And, make no mistake, there are already many LGBT Christians attending church in every Christian denomination. They’re just not advertising that they are LGBT Christians.

    I should point out that yoking oneself to unbelievers involves a lot more than a simple fellowship/friendship. God created both the day and the night. And let’s not forget that someone in a homosexual relationship/marriage who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Saviour is NOT an unbeliever.

    Let me conclude that I have clearly identified LGBT Christians as Christians because ONLY God can say who is a Christian and who is not. We all are imperfect and fallible. Not being homosexual doesn’t mean that we all don’t have many sins that need to be forgiven (and, by the grace of God and the death and ressurection of Jesus, can be so forgiven).

    • Edwitness November 1, 2016 at 11:49 am #

      Stephen James S.,
      You have come to some wrong conclusions because of your misunderstanding of the scriptures. Here are a few suggestions.

      1st, Homosexuality is a choice to worship idols. To be homosexual Paul says, presupposes the choice to worship that which is not God. Which is idolatry. Rom.1:21-23.
      “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
      Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
      And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.”

      The homosexual is then by definition an idolater. He worships corruptible man, the genitals. Someone who worships idols can not worship the true God at the same time. Mt.6:24- “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”

      2nd, Paul says the homosexual is filled with the things in Rom.1:29-31. These things are “….all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:”
      When a person is filled with these things as Paul says the homosexual is, he is not filled with the Spirit. The Spirit of God does not dwell in this environment.

      3rd, When Jesus told the Jews not to judge lest they should be judged, He wasn’t saying they were not to judge. He was telling them that when they judge someone else they will bring judgment upon themselves also.

      For the Christian this is not an impediment to judging. Because the Christian has already come to Jesus to be judged when he repented from his sin and turned to Jesus in faith. And Jesus has already pronounced him righteous. Rom.3:22- “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:”

      And since the Christian has been judged already and found righteous, he does not fear the judgment of God. Because God’s perfect love casts out fear. 1John4:18- “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”
      1Cor.2:14-15- “14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
      But he that is spiritual JUDGETH ALL THINGS, yet he himself is judged of no man.”

      So you see Stephen, judging is part of what God wants us to do as Christians. Not something to fear. Because we have already been judged by God and found righteous. And we are now spiritual and therefore able to judge righteously.

      But, as far as the homosexual is concerned, his idolatry is worthy of death.
      Rom.1:32- “Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
      The latter part of this verse deals with your homosexual who doesn’t forsake his/her homosexual relationships. They continue to “have pleasure in them that do them.”

      This then is the New Testament Biblical view of homosexuality. No matter what your Pope says, it is idolatry. It is a choice. And is worthy of death.
      Therefore they are not to be received as fellow believers until they have repented/turned from it and turned to the true God.

      4th, Homosexual marriage was not made legal by the SCOTUS ruling on DOMA. All that ruling said is that the law that said marriage was only recognized by the gov’t as being between one man and one woman, DOMA, was not Constitutional. This in no way legalizes homosexual marriage. The SCOTUS has no authority to make laws. Their Constitutional authority is only to interpret the laws the Congress passes as to their Constitutionality.

    • Mike November 25, 2016 at 8:40 pm #

      When we become a Christian we do so too erase all previous sins. So if we go forth and continue to sin but not repented of our sins and said we really accepted Jesus Christ?

      When we find Christ we repent in doing so we make the conscious decision that we don’t want to send anymore because every one of those things that we commit after we have found Christ it’s basically saying Christ wasn’t enough.

      So when the Bible says that homosexuality is immoral it is a sin it says so from Leviticus all the way through Romans homosexuality is a sin it is a gross perversion does Jesus love us less for Christ loves us regardless of what our sins are. So this is where we have to love the sinner hate the sin and that’s the point of the Christian church hating homosexuality I don’t hate a homosexual I hate the sin of homosexuality.

      So Jen hatmaker sits there and says that homosexuality is ok is going against biblical teachings and the Bible itself we have to remember that John 1:1 says that the word is God so the Bible is God this is God speaking to us as God’s holy commandments so when Jen hatmaker says that homosexuality is ok she is literally saying what God Said is wrong and if she’s trying to rewrite the Bible or try and do a new translation of the Bible or something along those lines to change it it says in Revelations that we cannot add to or take away from the Bible.

      I suppose what I’m trying to say homosexuality is a sin accepting it is not in our power to do so that says that it’s a sin. We cannot sit there and say that anyone that is worse than the other because in God’s eyes all sins are equal so homosexuality is on the same scale as murder it’s a sin. So as a new Christian you have to realize that if the Bible says it’s a sin it’s just sent not even the pope can sit there and say did anyone send is in a synonym or because if the Bible says it’s a sin it’s a sin and no man can change that the Bible is the truth of God.

  6. Edwitness November 1, 2016 at 12:09 pm #


    You said
    “Didn’t Jesus say, ‘Judge not that ye be not judged’? Oh my, yes He did. (Mt.7:1) Good job His commands are now optional.”

    I answered Stephen with this;
    When Jesus told the Jews not to judge lest they should be judged, He wasn’t saying they were not to judge at all. He was telling them that when they judge someone else they will bring judgment upon themselves also.

    For the Christian this is not an impediment to judging. Because the Christian has already come to Jesus to be judged when he repented from his sin and turned to Jesus in faith. And Jesus has already pronounced him righteous. Rom.3:22- “Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:”

    And since the Christian has been judged already and found righteous, he does not fear the judgment of God. Because God’s perfect love casts out fear. 1John4:18- “There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”
    1Cor.2:14-15- “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    But he that is spiritual JUDGETH ALL THINGS, yet he himself is judged of no man.”

    So you see Andy, judging is part of what God wants us to do as Christians. Not something to fear. Because we Christians have already been judged by God and found righteous. And we are now spiritual and therefore able to judge righteously. And God expects us to.

    • noel rochford November 1, 2016 at 2:08 pm #

      Hi every one.Please bear with me a littel here. I am a novice on comp and internet debate .the first time at this. I see in these replys that we are dealing with last days The GREAT FALLING AWAY.????? from what the WORD ? GOD ? THE WAY????? IN mt 24 . The LOVE of many will wax COLD and INIQUITY will abound ..,LAWLESNESS, last days prediction by CHRIST himself. I dare to say now JUDGEMENT and DISCERNMENT latter Spiritual for a reason CHARISMA / SPIRITUALS /ENDOWMENTS in the body of christ supposibly functioning in the CHURCH.? for protection of each other in sound DOCTRINE from GOD not MANS oponions. Please read 1PT 3 vrs8 through to 1PT4 all through to vrs 17 V. I .P . for US today it explains itself plainly. JUDGEMENT here or DISCERNING.Hard fierce TIMES lay ahead>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for his PEOPLE. O.T.>>>> NEW TEST Believers / Non Believers God judged ISRAEL then how much more for us the CHURCH today. P. S . ? Communion with GOD .He that judgest himself. 1 Cor 11 how he or she stands before him .??????????? now that is discernment.

      • Edwitness November 1, 2016 at 2:16 pm #

        Noel rochford,
        I am not sure what you are trying to say. If you would speak in complete sentences like you would in a conversation maybe I can pick up what you are laying down:-)

        Are you saying that when we judge ourselves we are being discerning?

        • noel rochford November 1, 2016 at 4:52 pm #

          Thank you for being patient with me Edwittness as i said previously may be too much trying to get to a point of mutual understanding concerning what all the scriptures in contexual instruction are teaching us. First after reading some points on how to communicate here on BEREAN RESEARCH yesterday. Am i talking with some one in this Order /Community or with an individual talking privately so to speak. The reason i have chosen to do this on here is to find a people to fellowship with NOW. As i have been in a very solo journey now for a long time after>>>>>>>>>> losing fellowship with a group of fellow believers for the past 33yrs.including my ex wife and family who dont follow CHRIST any more. DIVISON being the main culprit for the chaos.and we know who the author of that is HEY. The hardest part has been the past 8 yrs and the only way i can explain that is LONELY///but not ALONE maintaing i think with fellowship in the spirit and his WORD .For i placed myself to study his word unhindered for some yrs now one who should be accurately Dividing the word of God not just following a man made organization and its rules. Now to your ? yes if we ignore what is taking place in communion collectivly as a fellowship Discerning the LORDS BODY no wonder we have the many divisions in the known fellowships world wide. A littel LEAVEN what will it do? This my freind is my observation at this point in time and i am making myself open for correction here if needed. Maybe i have become like the one in scripture NOT FORSAKING FELLOWSHIP TOGETHER but the one seeing the hastening and coming of the day of the LORD and and and and.SHALOM.

          • Edwitness November 1, 2016 at 5:34 pm #

            No problem noel rochford.
            We are all pilgrims traveling through a strange land on our way home. I hope you are able to find Godly fellowship with true Christian brothers and sisters again close to where you live. In the mean time there is fellowship here. And the careful examination of what is Biblical doctrine or not.
            If it’s not too personal, what happened to your wife and family that they no longer want to follow Jesus? We see this happening more and more as we see His return for His bride getting closer every day.
            God bless you noel.

          • noel rochford November 1, 2016 at 6:42 pm #

            Hey thanks for a quick reply really needed at this time. Why the left is a very good ? only God their heavenly FATHER knows that…I think it all started when i stepped down from a leadership role in fellowship it being a concience decision on what was being preached to the congregation. No the LORDING over GODS heritage . We the leaders were suppose to be helpers of their JOY /FAITH not presumpusly dominating over them. I think the founding men apostels were originaly military men after the2nd world war…The revival that started in DUNTROON MILITARY COLLEDGE in aussie was quickly delt with by the army chaplins etc etc.kicked out so to speak. Now civilians they started what was called REVIVAL CENTERS INTERNATIONAL. what was preached was a gospel of power and demonstration with signs following MRK16 basic base doctrine. A radio talk back show a tent and baptismal tub on the back of a truck. It all started from simplicity many converted from religeon to being BORN AGAIN many assemblies every where even internationallywere set up. Me i came into association by a younger sister being converted the fellowship at the time was mainly ex hippies druggies broken families alcholics+++++++ it took 2yrs for me to follow her example. At this time i was in a relationship with Sally my ex wife now .She had been born again a couple of years before in a SYDNEY fellowship of Brian Houston.HILLSONG . But the father had baptized Sally it was a small church then and she fell away. I met her when i had my trawler being a fisherman most of my life..WE married in theREV CENT.fellowshipped untill the split 1n1995 .Not a good time of life i think by taking the role of a leader over a few who came out of the split.was the turning point of what i thought was a good was only a matter of time my efforts of trying to my business alive didnt help either .From a fellowship of3oo to 10 quite daunting as for the division of now 2 REVIVAL fellowships a lot of broken families and troubles left and right all i wanted to was walk with GOD in his fellowship of his SON and LIGHT. But others i think became offended for the WORDS SAKE so also my family a wife and 3 children all raised in the CHURCH. but now in the world. I am still findind this very hard to deal with without fellowship. And i have to say this divorce is not a nice thing to deal with. You question yourself in where did i go wrong and why i didnt see it coming.And also it takes 2 to cause it. The VOWS we take in the beggining are no longer there. So as many vacate marriage today why should we be supprised in the GREAT FALLING the church. It was not i that chose divorce but Sally or was it meant to be .Predestination.That my freind is in GODS hands. Hoping for a JOB ending double blessed by GOD it would be wonderfull. Shalom to you.Once again thank you for bearing with me.

          • Edwitness November 1, 2016 at 8:40 pm #

            Hey noel rochford,
            No problem. I was curious what happened there. You are right about not lording it over God’s heritage. Jesus told the disciples when they were arguing about that; “And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
            And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
            BUT YE SHALL NOT BE SO: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.” Luke22:24-26. Leadership is to serve.

            Do you agree with Revival Centers International’s emphasis on Mark16 teachings? Because as far as I can tell Mark16 is directed at the disciples, right? These were signs that would follow their teaching.
            Which is not to say that God does not do miracles today. It’s just that this is specifically for the jump starting of the church age, That is, someone being able to heal every time. I don’t know of anyone like that since the apostles. Do you?

            In regard to the split in your marriage, it would seem that a caring person would question themselves when a relationship breaks up. I could see how you might wonder about that. But, I believe people make choices sometimes that have nothing to do with their environment. In other words, you did not have to mess up for her to leave. It could be that she simply made some very bad choices.
            We can never really know what goes on in another person’s thoughts. But, I am glad you are able to know the presence of God and His peace, joy, and hope in all of it. And as God says He hates divorce, I can’t imagine a scenario where God would predestine any marriage for that.

            I don’t take it as “bearing with you”. In God’s family we all need each other. More at some times than others. I will hope for you a JOB ending as well:-) God bless you Noel.

            PS Do you surf there? Or only fish commercially?I grew up surfing in California.

  7. noel rochford November 2, 2016 at 6:58 pm #

    Surfing is not one of my favourites…I travelled through CAL in the 80s not my scene at all but went to BIR SUR to have a look saw how many were there frightening to see the coming and goings of so many people. Here in Queensland aussie .FRASER ISL.was so much like big sur.bue 40 yrs later it has become like what i saw then aTourism MECCA for the world.Not the same any more. But there is spots now i can still access by boat and still catch fish Hellaluea hard work but enjoyable .No longer a Pro Fisherman just recrevational endeavours still have to pick the times out of school holidays for nealy no human contact serenity times. I need to say when i came to the LORD i had my trawler it was where i met my wife Sally. The trawler and her and my sister Judy played a big part in my conversion over2 yrs. The trawler set up a conflict of concience which hasseled me for those yrs.When she asked me to take her to her baptism in Bundaberg me being the oldest brother and father type in my family i saw her go into the water confessing CHRIST repenting of her sins when she came up speaking i tounges litteraly confused me to what had happened ther and then. She had 2 wks previously lost a premature child a very broken woman thus her conversion . Me i bolted being a good baptist boy wanting to have nothing to do with her or CHURCH..But she did prophise the word over me saying What will it profit you to gain the whole world and LOSE YOUR SOUL. well that took 2 yrs that is when i met Sally.she came and worked on the trawler with me another BORN AGAIN. So to answer the ? about whether i cared for her i did with the best of my given ability. And yes i was asked by her to leave the marriage bed for reconcillation was 2 yrs to long. I tried a lot of things for reconcillation some good some not good counselling +++++++ to no avail i am sorry for using predestined for ordaned .IT was not so in the beggining. But MOSES said about divorce. I dont know if you are married. What could i do when Sally went back to dope smokes and alcohol. how do you fix that . Her choices not mine. I couldnt take that path with her she also condoned it with 2 of my children .What a mess from i thought a good start to now. ONLY ONE GOOD and he is in heaven. Once again thank you for listening to me.Lonely but not ALONE P. T. L. I will hold to ALL things WORK for GOOD.

  8. Lydia December 27, 2016 at 9:15 pm #

    Yes!!! I live in a large metropolitan area and have been a church ‘refugee’ for years looking for a God fearing church, I’ve literally been through hundreds within a few years, both in person and online searches. I finally found 1 (one) church, and it is not perfect either. But one of the most prominent apostasies is that of heretical women’s studies, mostly using books by Beth Moore. It is all the rage and the pastors are just as guilty as the women’s ministry leaders because the church leadership answers to the pastor, it’s all under him, and with that responsibility of leadership comes accountability, and guilt in sin for not being a good shepherd. I have brought this up to them but mostly received a shrugged shoulders reply. Is that the same reply they will try to give God when they have to answer to Him as His Word says? Not good, not good… !

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