“52 Congressmen made decisions for Christ” – Rodney Howard Browne


There are 435 members of our U.S. Congress. Apparently 52 of them said the sinner’s prayer with (NAR) New Apostolic Reformation pastor Rodney Howard

Rodney Howard Browne

Browne during Celebrate America 2016

Browne, during the recent Celebrate America 2016 event in Washington, D.C. If you’re a numbers person, that’s roughly 12 percent of our U.S. Representatives who are reportedly “baby Christians.”

“We visited every office of the House & Senate and were able to pray the prayer of salvation with 633 at the Hill. We had 52 Congressman and 4 Senators that said the prayer of salvation with us,” says Browne, calling the event a “Great Spiritual Awakening.”

Wolf, run!

As a reminder, Browne’s version of spiritual awakening includes jerking, falling over and writhing on the ground, barking like a dog and laughing uncontrollably. Browne is famously known as the Holy Ghost Bartender for getting people “drunk in the spirit,” but it surely is not the Holy Spirit of God.  Browne is considered to be the father of the Holy Laughter phenomenon at the so-called Toronto Revival.

He is a prominent figure of the false Word of Faith Prosperity Gospel. and also the New Apostolic Reformation/Latter Rain Movement.

As pastor Phil Johnson writes,

In reality, those who tout false prophecies, obscene bodily gyrations, and drunken behavior as gifts of the Holy Spirit are the ones blaspheming Him. In fact, no one is more notorious for that than Rodney Howard-Browne himself. For him to decry blasphemy and pretend to know anything about the fear of God is the very height of arrogant irony.

If you think that sounds unduly harsh, watch this video of a typical Rodney Howard-Browne “ministry” binge:

© Berean Research, 2016

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40 Responses to “52 Congressmen made decisions for Christ” – Rodney Howard Browne

  1. Manny1962 July 13, 2016 at 4:00 pm #

    “The prayer of salvation” …………stunning! Another wolf spreading lies!

  2. Darrel July 13, 2016 at 4:55 pm #

    That means none of them were “saved” because praying this blasphemous “prayer” will save no one.

  3. Manny1962 July 13, 2016 at 6:08 pm #

    Given the sad state of DC, is it any wonder? Is there any discernment left?

  4. Faith July 13, 2016 at 6:21 pm #

    Sadly, the joke is on them!

  5. lyn July 13, 2016 at 7:12 pm #

    This is the ‘fruit’ of American churches as they continue spreading Charles Finney’s heresy. Just say the magic words and presto! Instant Christian! Nevermind that you must be born again, that God must gift you with faith, repentance and salvation. Nevermind that it’s a supernatural work of the triune God in the saving of a sinner. In-depth biblical teaching departed from this nation long ago. We now have a shallow, superficial feel good type of religion that saves NO ONE!
    The goats are multiplying like rabbits while the true remnant sits back and awaits our Savior’s return.

    • Manny1962 July 13, 2016 at 10:03 pm #

      Amen Lyn! Rightly said. These days Churchianity is characterized by cheap grace, easy believism, name it and claim it and shallow feel good apostasy. We await our savior from heaven as the days grow darker and darker…………. God bless!

  6. Sheila Beers July 13, 2016 at 7:38 pm #

    I am not so sure that Charles Finney was spreading heresy, but I will have to read more on the matter. However, I do remember that faith, repentance, salvation, and being born again were the key parts in my accepting Christ as my Savior many years ago.

    I do realize that people need time for discipleship as they learn to leave their old life behind and that the salvation experience touches not only the spiritual but the emotional, psychological, social, and mental aspects of their being. There are some people whose lives change instantly and dramatically, and yet there are others for whom spiritual victory and spiritual growth are a struggle.

    I agree the above-described “feel-good” evangelist is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and it is such phonies and kooks who give the Christian faith a bad name. I hope and pray some sound believers can deal with the Congressmen who made the professions of faith and can explain salvation to them in a way that is sound and true to the Bible.

    • Darrel July 13, 2016 at 8:22 pm #

      “… and yet there are others for whom spiritual victory and spiritual growth are a struggle.” Hog wash! To believe that shows a blind ignorance of the New Testament, the power of God as He saves a person and the age-old excuse to continue in one’s favorite sins. God DOES NOT LEAVE HIS PEOPLE IN THEIR SINS, but intervenes in their life to the point that their old nature, their old love of sin is now repugnant to them. The above quote is the basis of Finney’s teaching, that it is man’s choice to be saved (which it IS NOT) and that if he wants to continue in his favorite cherished sin that he may do so without penalty or blame—-again, hog wash!

    • Maggie July 13, 2016 at 11:24 pm #

      It is really worthwhile to study church history. It explains a lot of the origins of various church doctrines–the good, the bad, and the ugly–including Charles Finney’s teachings. It made me appreciate how remarkable the Reformation was in making the study of the Bible available to everyone.

    • berlorac July 14, 2016 at 10:41 am #

      [There are some people whose lives change instantly and dramatically, and yet there are others for whom spiritual victory and spiritual growth are a struggle.]

      Sheila, I get what you’re saying there. Perhaps you have in mind the Corinthians whom Paul referred to “as carnal” (1 Corinthians 3:1-3). There are two spheres in which we experience salvation: our standing and our state. Our standing refers to what God has done; He has justified us; He has declared us righteous; He has placed us in the Body of Christ; He has created us anew. In Christ, we are perfect new creations. But then, with regard to our state — our walk in this world, in these bodies of flesh — we often stumble. Some of us grow and mature faster than others. This, however, does not mean it’s okay for us to stay “as carnal,” or “as babes in Christ.” The Holy Spirit is relentless in His work to bring us to maturity.

  7. Nellie July 13, 2016 at 9:05 pm #

    Someone hasn’t fully grasped Charles Finney. He agitated people to the point where they needed to make a decision. Finney never collected money like WoF and never mentioned the “sinner’s prayer” to anyone. His complete theology may have arguments among us but nowhere does it compare with today’s puppet pulpits.
    That being said, Tozer believed that there must be a sincere guilt and people would know they received the Holy Spirit, the sinners prayer does none of this.
    Lastly, I wonder if any of us have it “right,” since we have countless divisions and denominations. The Church is a mess, and until we clean ourselves up and get rid of our own filth, we are not showing we are doing much better.

    • Maggie July 13, 2016 at 11:36 pm #

      Please remember there is a big difference between the visible church and the true faithful church/Bride of Christ. Hasn’t the visible church been generally a mess during all the ages? I believe a forum such as this encourages us in our Christian walk, and I like to think that “iron sharpens iron” as we discuss these important issues.

  8. Sheila Beers July 13, 2016 at 11:11 pm #

    My response to Darrel is this, if people instantly leave their old lives and weaknesses behind when they accept Christ, then why and how did Peter deny knowing Christ? In the same vain, why and how did Peter take matters into his own hands by cutting off Malchus’ ear, in an attempt to save Jesus from the cross? It would be wonderful if everyone instantly did become perfectly Christ-like, but believers have the old nature with which they were born and the new nature given by God, and the two natures sometimes struggle with each other. Perhaps you, Darrel, believe in sanctification, that believers reach a point where they are perfect. I must disagree with you because my Bible does not teach this. Yes, we are to be new creatures in Christ, but we still have to learn to leave our old lives behind and grow in Christ. Sin should be the exception and not the rule, but Christians do sin and should confess their sin and repent and seek to grow closer and more obedient to the Lord as they mature in their Christian life.

  9. Lyn July 14, 2016 at 12:16 am #

    Concerning Charles Finney’s teachings and influence, I highly recommend this – http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue53.htm

    Those who claim to have made a decision for Christ are using the kind of terminology Finney would use. Nowhere in the Bible does it state we make decisions. God chooses us, we do not choose Him. We come as we are drawn by the Father – see John 6:44.
    Consider this from 2 Thessalonians 2:13 – “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth”

    We must not use terminology like ‘accept Christ’ because it cannot be supported by God’s word. The Bible states we are saved by grace, through faith, and that {grace and faith} is not of ourselves. It is a gift of God, not of works lest any man boast. {Eph.2:8-9}. To state one accepts Christ is to say they’ve done a ‘work’. This is contrary to the text I just gave. We come because we are drawn by God’s marvelous power, regenerated by the Spirit, having our spiritual ears and eyes opened so we can see our wickedness.
    Most churches no longer teach rightly on soteriology, so many believers are wrongly informed as to how they are saved. This is such a tragedy, for God is not receiving the glory He alone deserves. A right understanding of how you are saved fills the heart with a deep sense of gratitude.

  10. Sheila Beers July 14, 2016 at 2:10 am #

    Some of you have said the terms “accepting Christ” and “making a decision” are not in the Bible. However, it seems these terms mean the same as “believing” or “choosing to believe.” Although the actual terms may not be in the Bible, the “meanings” are found in scripture. I agree the “feel good” and “easy believism” evangelism are not sound and are not scriptural because they are shallow and make no demands on a person’s life or lifestyle. In fact, they are rooted in emotionalism and may have little to do with faith. Throughout history various groups have stressed one point of doctrine or another and have used the doctrine as the foundation of the group or denomination. Instead of splitting hairs on “who believes what” or “what tactic a certain evangelist used,” why not just study the scripture and the examples of people who professed faith in Christ in the Bible? God’s Word goes forth regardless of the imperfections of the messengers because the Word is what is important..

    • Lyn July 14, 2016 at 8:45 am #


      I think we need to stick with scripture alone. There is nothing in the bible that states sinners make decisions or accept Christ. This is a product of Finney. I encourage you to read the link I provided concerning DeWaay.

      The Apostle Paul warns of an ‘accursed’ gospel. Anything added to the Gospel, such as invitations and decisions, makes it accursed. The bible states ‘repent and believe’ {Mark 1:15}. This is not an invitation, it is a command. The verb ‘repent’ is in the present imperative active mood in the Greek grammatical construction of the sentence. The imperative mood means ‘ a command or instruction given to the hearer, charging the hearer to carry out or perform a certain action.’ The present tense means it is a continuous kind of action – it is ongoing.
      The verb ‘believe’ is the same as ‘repent’. Both are a command, NOT a choice! This is the danger of false teachings like that of Finney. If we tell sinners they can make decisions or accept Jesus, we are going outside Scripture.

      How important is it to study the doctrine of soteriology? It is extremely important. Because many no longer preach correctly, we have multitudes who think themselves saved because they came forward, made a decision, invited Jesus into their heart, etc. None of these methods are in the bible; rather, we have a command by God to repent and believe.
      If we repent and believe it is not because we accepted Christ or made a decision, rather, it is because we have been drawn by the Father {John 6:44}, we have been born again {John 3:3, 1:13} and gifted with all that is necessary to save us by God. It is grace that saves us, not our deciding for Him. We are all dead in sin {Eph. 2:1,5; John 5:21} unable to discern spiritual matters {1 Cor. 2:14}. It is because we’ve been born again and our eyes opened that we flee to Christ.
      If we use methods to entice or coerce sinners, such as repeating prayers, making decisions, etc. we have added to the glorious Gospel. We are commanded not to add to nor take from His word {Deut. 4:2}. Let’s not make light of this command and think we can. It is essential we remember this from Romans 1:16 – “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” The power to save comes from God and His Gospel, and not man and his decisions, etc. The cry of sola scriptura needs to go forth once more.

    • berlorac July 14, 2016 at 11:02 am #

      [Although the actual terms may not be in the Bible, the “meanings” are found in scripture.]

      Hi Sheila, I think I get what you’re saying here. We are not robots. God doesn’t just push a button one day and make us saved without some interaction on our part. The question is, what is our part and when does it occur?

      It may SEEM like we “make a decision” for Christ, but that’s not really true. First, God has to open the heart of the sinner, as He did with Lydia (Acts 16:14). Now, once Lydia’s heart was opened by God, she could comprehend Paul’s words. The opening of her heart was not her decision or her choice. Notice that God opened her heart specifically so that she could “give heed” to the things spoken by Paul. Again, this is not her decision. God has orchestrated this whole thing.

      Now that God has opened Lydia’s heart so that her spirit can receive the Gospel, the things spoken of by Paul, she is saved. She believes only because she is compelled to believe; she cannot do otherwise for God has seen to it that her spirit has received the Gospel. And the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16). The only way we can believe the Gospel is that God has not only enabled us to do so, but has caused us to do so, for His glory.

      But now, she has the choice whether to be water baptized and whether to invite Paul into her home, etc. Now, her walk is a cooperation between her regenerated spirit and the Holy Spirit (and the fight of the flesh). These are the decisions we make IN Christ. We are not saved by making a decision FOR Christ because the only way anyone is saved is due to the Father’s will, drawing men unto Himself (John 6:44). And the word “draw” there is “helkuo,” which is akin to “drag.” It is not a choice we make, but an overwhelming knowledge on our part that we are compelled to come.

  11. Jess July 14, 2016 at 8:52 am #

    52 very high level prominent members of the political world, have believed in Jesus Christ as Savior? 52 people that have the worldwide media at their disposal at all times?

    Great. So I now fully expect to hear at least ONE of them say that Jesus Christ is God, that Jesus is the only way to heaven, that all other ways lead to eternal torment in the lake of fire, that Jesus died on the cross as the full payment for all of our sins, and that Jesus resurrected from death.

    Just ONE out of 52 should say that at some point, right? I mean, if they are all born again, then all 52 should be saying it. But we should expect to hear at least ONE say it, right?

    If not, then Rodney Howard Browne is a fraud and a liar that doesn’t preach the true Gospel. I’ll save you time. Browne has always been a fraud and a liar that doesn’t preach the true Gospel. Don’t hold your breath for even one of the 52 to say the truth of the doctrines of Christ Jesus.

  12. Darrel July 14, 2016 at 9:22 am #


    Charles Finney, the creator of the “altar call” which has no basis, nor precedent, nor pattern in Scripture. It is a purely emotional appeal to generate followers.
    He also invented the “sinner’s prayer” though it has morphed into today’s version, it was nonetheless CF’s brainchild.
    CF rejected the total depravity of man and the imputation of Adam’s sin to all mankind. This is how he ‘got around’ the FACT that it is God who chooses those who will be saved without the “cooperation” of a man. It is also why he never preached about repentance and the sin nature, believing that sinless perfection was attainable (something you have ignorantly ascribed to me).
    CF denied the need and sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ, and the imputation of His righteousness to the believer. According to CF, “salvation” was all of man, his choice to “accept or reject” and going further to say that a man could “recreate” himself, thus making himself acceptable to God. Perhaps that’s where the singer got the line “I did it my way.”
    In the end, CF admitted himself to be a total failure in his efforts to “evangelize” because none of his “converts” were anywhere to be found, just like those who attended Billy Graham’s “crusades,” the people left the same as they came in—lost and deceived into thinking that ‘all is well with my soul.’

    Those who sing the praises of CF today are just as much a minister of antichrist as was Finney. He was an evil man and still there are millions who hang their eternal fate on his false teachings. Instead of buying into the praises of Finney by today’s Pulpit Jackals why not investigate the man for yourself? Instead of believing in his false gospel of man can “accept” Jesus at his leisure why not read the Scriptures to find out that he lied to you and all who hear him?

    To equate “accepting Jesus” and “make a decision” with Biblical belief on Christ is perhaps the biggest lie of Finney’s legacy. It completely removes God from being the ultimate, all Sovereign One who has Himself declared that it is He who chooses who will be saved (John 1:13 and John 15:16 along with about two hundred other verses). It is the favorite tactic of the Arminians, the ‘free-willers’ and all those who would elevate themselves above God to leave the necessity of repentance out of God’s prescribed working of salvation in a man. Repentance is just as much a gift from God as is faith and grace. No repentance=no faith=no salvation. That’s why this “repentanceless gospel” of Finney and today’s crop of hirelings is such a heinous heresy.

    Since there are no biblical examples of anyone “accepting Jesus” or “making a decision for Christ” why not refer to the Scriptures for examples of men who were chosen by God instead of trying to change the definition to fit fantasy theology? Adam and Eve hide; Job abhorred himself; David sought mercy when he saw his own sins; Isaiah found himself to be a man with unclean lips; Peter said “depart from me for I am a sinful man”; Paul fell down blind; John fell at His feet as dead. All of these show an abrupt, immediate, and irreversible transformation that was done by the Lord in the inner man. What an insult it is to the Trinity to even hint that a man can actually do this on his own.

    You have Charles Finney to thank for the confusion of mind that you now struggle with. When your eyes are opened to the Sovereignty of Almighty God, then you will gladly stomp on Finney’s lies and all those who continue his legacy. Finney was a master idolater. His idol was himself and he transferred that idol worship to all who would hear him when he told them that it was by their own “free-will” that “salvation” could be attained. There is no finer example of idol worship in the “church” today than the idol of “free-will.” If a man considers himself to be “saved” by the actions of his will then that man has no need of grace; and if he has no need of grace………………….

    • Manny1962 July 14, 2016 at 11:27 am #

      Amen brother, amen! Thanks for such a post so many can see and understand, the subtlety of the lies are so shallow, it sounds great when spoken, but when one uses The Word to analyze it, it falls flat on its face! So many millions around the globe have been duped by Graham into believing they’re saved, a little prayer, a little kneeling, walking down the aisle, such travesty. That’s why I always say the most fertile field for evangelization is not the world, but the “chrurch!” The bible says it some many times, we haven been chosen, you have been chosen, chosen from the foundation of the world, chosen from long ago, it’s always the work of The Lord. He chose us. That we may do His good works. Anything good that comes from us is because of Him, Faith is a gift, so is salvation, we cannot boast of anything, all we do is sin, without God all we are capable of is doing evil, it’s in our nature, Paul said he saw two laws working in him…………………

  13. Friend July 14, 2016 at 11:06 am #

    I agree with everyone here. The term “accepting” our Lord Jesus is wrong. He does not have a self-esteem problem that requires being “accepted” by man. We are the ones with the problem and it is called sin, rebellion, rejection. I.C. Herendeen wrote an article on this phrase. It can be found on Internet…it’s title is “Accepting Christ”. I hope you wil be blessed by it.

  14. Maggie July 14, 2016 at 11:50 am #

    I also see a connection between “accepting Christ” and an emphasis on obedience as if the believer is able to do this by sheer willpower. This results in failure, of course, and a sense of guilt and a doubling up of resolve to do better. On the other hand, if justification and sanctification is wholly done by the Holy Spirit in our lives, and we can take no credit for it, we are humbled, can repent, and be grateful for this great gift of salvation. This is that easy yoke that Jesus described in Matthew 11:27-30:

    “All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”

    I picked up on this emphasis on obedience (instead of on faith) in the teachings of the spiritual disciplines and contemplative spiritually, as well as the teachings of Rick Warren and the NAR. A spiritually dangerous aspect of these teachings is to listen to “God’s voice” by mystical means and then immediately obey! This self-help means of sanctification all makes sense if one is falsely converted by “making a decision for Christ” and seeks to have a relationship with God without the genuine working of the Holy Spirit in that person’s life. It is no wonder the visible church has gone so far astray.

    • Maggie July 14, 2016 at 1:06 pm #

      Further to my comment, and what is at the heart of what I tried to describe regarding obedience–
      The Law condemns because the Law requires that we fulfill it 100% in order to be saved; its purpose is to point out our sin. In a true conversion, the person is convicted of sin, repents, and receives salvation by faith and grace. Good works then are a result of being saved and not a means to be saved. In a false conversion, grace is lacking and the person is laboring to obey the Law and is totally unable to do it. Without grace, works become a means to obtaining salvation, which is a burden no one can bear.

      • Maggie July 25, 2016 at 1:59 am #

        Because an aim of the NAR/dominionists is to “convert” people groups, obedience is essential in making the group Christianized. True personal conversion or faith is not required in this scenerio.

  15. Manny1962 July 14, 2016 at 12:20 pm #

    The NAR and Rick Warren are two of the most dangerous blights affecting Churchianity. Through the NAR movement many believe there’s a political means to usher in the kingdom, utter heresy, through Warren, Chrislam, new age practices, Dominionism prepackaged, collectivism and a one world religion is infused into the mix, how can anyone say the great apostasy is not in full swing? We know what happens when it reaches critical mass, He who restraints is taken out of the way, and he who blasphemes the name of God rises.

  16. Sheila Beers July 14, 2016 at 4:49 pm #

    It seems most of the people who have posted on this site have a limited knowledge and use of the English language and do not grasp the concept of reading between the lines or interpretation. It may be true that current church services have various approaches not found in the Bible. However, the posters need to realize believers witnessed to people in their homes, in the street, or in synagogues since synagogues were the only non-heathen places of worship. Today, there are many churches that are considered meeting places for Christians as we have come a long way from the catacombs of Rome!

    If the word “decision” is wrong, then why did Felix Agrippa tell the Apostle Paul, “Almost thou persuadest me to become a Christian?” It is common sense that a person who is persuaded by or presented with an argument about certain principles does weigh the evidence and make a decision. As another point, if believers are to stick to scripture, then what is the benefit or wisdom in reading about church history? After all, much of church history is a recording of man-made rules and man-originated ideas. I really believe most of the people posting on here truly have a limited knowledge of language, interpretation skills, terminology, logic. Most of you really ought to question the origins of their own faith and belief — if they truly have either one. I have a master’s degree in English language and literature and a minor in Bible and am 69 years of age, being a believer since age six. And yes, I knew exactly what I was doing when I accepted Christ. I guess that most of you are relatively young people who like to knit-pick and pool ignorance in an attempt to appear wise and knowledgeable. Frankly, I have concluded you all are ridiculous and should dust out your own corners instead of pointing the finger at everybody else. This is my last post.

    • berlorac July 14, 2016 at 5:13 pm #

      [If the word “decision” is wrong, then why did Felix Agrippa tell the Apostle Paul, “Almost thou persuadest me to become a Christian?” It is common sense that a person who is persuaded by or presented with an argument about certain principles does weigh the evidence and make a decision.]

      Sheila, I think you just made the point that I was trying to convey earlier. Agrippa did not “make a decision” for Christ because he could not. Why? The Holy Spirit had not opened his heart. Agrippa understood much of what Paul was saying, intellectually, but he was unable to come to repentance. It is obvious, as you’ve pointed out, that Agrippa “weighed the evidence,” but, having done so, he was still unable to believe. It’s not that he didn’t have enough information. It’s not that he didn’t have some sense of his life being “questionable” in God’s eyes. The problem was, his heart was hardened and God hadn’t opened it. Thus, he could not “make a decision” for Christ.

      I’m sorry to see that this is your last post. I quite enjoyed your comments. I do hope you will reconsider your decision to leave.

      • Sheila Beers July 14, 2016 at 6:11 pm #

        Rodney, I will answer you although I had intended not to post any more. Are you so sure Agrippa did not receive Christ because the Holy Spirit had not opened his heart? Although I am sure this principle does exist, man still has a free will. A person can hear arguments and be “almost persuaded,” but he can reject Christ because he does not want to humble himself, does not want to believe or admit he is a sinner, and/or because he knows becoming a Christian would mean he should give up certain sinful practices and/or the love or praise of men. I believe you are not acknowledging the free will of man, whereby a person can reject the leading of the Holy Spirit and can persist in his unrepentant, unsaved state.

        As for the doctrine of the free will of man, it is implied in Genesis 3, the passage in which God explained to Adam and Eve the existence of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which was located directly in the center of the Garden of Eden. God told them they would be allowed to eat freely of every other tree in the garden, but NOT the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When the serpent (Satan) tempted Eve, she was presented with two choices: (1) obey God and refuse to partake of the fruit of the tree OR (2) listen to the serpent and partake of the fruit of the tree. Adam and Eve THOUGHT they would be getting an intellectual knowledge, but they received an experience of spiritual death, sin, and loss of fellowship with God. The end result was the spiritual separation from God by all people until they come to know Christ as their Savior. In the Old Testament, the Jewish people were saved by obeying the Law of God, but I do not want to digress further from the main topic. The lost state of Adam and Eve (and the rest of mankind) was the result of their choices when they chose to listen to the serpent and follow what he suggested to them through temptation. So, if this passage does not illustrate the doctrine of the free will of man, what does? God certainly did not MAKE them sin because the Bible says God does not tempt man to sin. It is Satan and his evil forces that tempt people to sin.

        • lyn July 14, 2016 at 7:38 pm #


          Your faulty understanding of the inability of man to choose to be saved is your biggest problem. You have been given sufficent scripture to prove you wrong, but you choose to belittle those here by stating “most of the people who have posted on this site have a limited knowledge and use of the English language and do not grasp the concept of reading between the lines or interpretation”. You seem to think the Bible was written in English, forgetting your bible is a translation only.
          Now, as for your claim that Adam and Eve had ‘free will’, the scripture you provided does not imply that at all. They were given a command and they disobeyed. That does not mean sinners have the ability to discern spiritual matters. Did you even read the verses I gave in an earlier response? 1 Cor. 2:14 is the verse I direct you to now.
          I am not going to coddle you, for you speak falsely. May the Lord bring you to a right understanding of His truth.

          • Sheila Beers July 14, 2016 at 9:56 pm #

            I KNOW the Bible was not written in English, but the various translations you have read ARE written in English. You are not allowing for expressions in language to convey meaning from one language to another, and that is why you are coming up with all kinds of weird definitions for your terminology. You are twisting everything so that it means nothing, and YOU are the people wresting the scripture to your own destruction. You really need to examine yourselves and discover what makes you so lacking socially,emotionally, and spiritually, that you have to knit-pick at everyone while showing how ignorant of the Bible you really are. This is my very last post, and I am unsubscribing from this website.

        • berlorac July 14, 2016 at 8:35 pm #

          Hello Sheila, thanks for your response. You are correct, I am not acknowledging the free will of man, and that’s because he does not have free will. The will of the unbeliever is in bondage to sin. You are correct that he is free choose anything he wants, but you must see that he will never choose Christ — not until God opens his heart.

          Adam and Eve did, indeed, have free will because there was, as yet, no sin and no bondage to sin. But once they sinned, they plunged the whole human race into bondage and loss of free will. The unbeliever is still in Adam and is, therefore, unable — and unwilling — to choose Christ.

          As for the Jews being saved by keeping the Law, I hope you will read Paul’s epistles to the Romans and Galatians. Here are a few verses that show you are wrong on this count: Romans 3:20, Romans 4:13-15, Galatians 3:1-3, Galatians 3:10-13.

          I pray that God will open your eyes to these truths in His Word that you would be set free from this yoke of bondage.

    • Maggie July 14, 2016 at 6:25 pm #

      Please don’t take offence. Though challenging, I think this has been a healthy discussion. I, too, have appreciated your thoughtful comments.

  17. Darrel July 14, 2016 at 8:18 pm #


    Thank you for the “insults.” Is that the best your master’s degree in English can muster. Since you’ve taken the gloves off I’m sure you won’t mind if I return the favor. The comments must have struck a very deep and previously protected nerve, hopefully to the point that your eyes will be opened to the FACT that when it comes to the salvation of a soul man has no say so. There is no ambiguity in that statement, no need to read between the lines and no need of your convoluted “interpretation” which would, no doubt, be counter to the Scriptures like nearly everything else you have said. Part of the Holy Spirit’s work in bringing a man to Christ is to “reprove” him of his sin, the righteousness of Christ, and the sure judgment of God that waits those who continue in rebellion against him (John 16:8-11). This work of His brings about fruit to repentance. Repentance has been redacted from the gospel according to almost all in today’s “church” mostly because the attendees (and their ‘preacher’) are lost and don’t want to hear about the evil heart they possess.

    Your fantasies about the “free-will of man” is sad, a demonstration of complete ignorance of the Scriptures and the Character of God. It seems that for you Adam became “spiritually dead” in every respect EXCEPT his will, somehow that magically survived the sentence of death and remains intake to this day in all of Adam’s descendants—hog wash!!! To say that his “free-will” survived is the same thing as calling God a liar. Is that your intent? Intent or not, it is the consequence of your foolish statement. No where does the Scripture say that Adam and Eve “thought they were getting intellectual knowledge.” Eve was deceived, Adam was not, 1 Tim. 2:14, Adam knew he was in open rebellion against his God, and did it anyway!

    Reading “between the lines” as you suggested, it is found that you, Sheila, are an idol worshipper, the idol being your own supposed possession of a “free-will” that—according to you—entitles you to resist the Holy Spirit and consider yourself unworthy of the salvation the Bible speaks about. In a nutshell, you are worshipping yourself and are just as rebellious as Adam, as satan, and all the others doomed to hell (no, I did not say Adam was in hell so stop with the wild speculations and misinterpretations). You have master’s in English, read what’s written.

    You claim to have been “saved” at the age of six. Tell us, Sheila, what was it like for a six year old to see his own sins and what was it like to repent of those sins? Can’t remember? It’s probably because it never happened and you have fallen into the trap of the wicked one so masterfully set for you and so many others who think that their “decision” made in a mental and emotional frenzy equates to salvation. IT DOES NOT! You have believed the eons old lie and consider yourself in the kingdom of God when the bitter reality is that you likely are not. Six year olds are not saved with the exemption from repentance. Neither were ANY of the Old Testament saints saved by keeping the law, as you have so plainly declared without biblical reference of any kind. Read Romans 3:20 for the truth you have so conveniently ignored.

    If you think that you can mock with impunity Almighty God then you have a rude awakening in store for yourself. There is found no praise of the Lord I what you have typed, only disdain and that for the One who wrote the Scriptures and is Himself the Word of God. May He grant you the gift of repentance and true salvation in Christ. Though you claim to be saved, your own words betray you.

  18. Sheila Beers July 14, 2016 at 9:39 pm #

    To Darrel and Rodney,

    You obviously have very warped beliefs and want to think your being chosen by God to be saved takes you on a certain ego trip. I never have heard such ridiculous ideas about what the Bible says. You are the people who insult others, and you obviously have very deep emotional, social, and spiritual problems to make you the way you are. I am finished with trying to reason with you fools — and that is in the Bible too!

    • Lyn July 14, 2016 at 10:39 pm #


      Although your response was not directed at me, I want to point out your errors denying God chooses. Let’s look at 2 Thess. 2:13, “But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth”. Notice who chooses, “God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation”…

      Here is another verse to ponder, “According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love” Ephesians 1:4. Again, the text clearly states that God has chosen us before He even created the world and all that is in it.

      You simply cannot state you believe something, such as ‘free will’ with no biblical evidence. Scripture has been given to you to prove you wrong, yet you ignore God’s word. This tells me you are not teachable, your mind is made up based on your opinion. This is tragic because you are caught up in error. Christ warned of deception as a sign of His soon return- it appears you have fallen victim to it. May God, in His mercy, reveal the truth to you.

    • berlorac July 15, 2016 at 9:27 am #

      [You obviously have very warped beliefs and want to think your being chosen by God to be saved takes you on a certain ego trip.]

      Sheila, it is just the opposite. It is humbling to know that I had nothing to do with this most glorious transformation that God has seen fit to accomplish. I was a wretched sinner and then, suddenly, God opened my eyes and my heart to see Him and His truth. There is no explanation for it other than Grace. There is not a single thing in me that would warrant such action on God’s part. I have nothing in which to boast, not in an intrinsic quality, not a decision, not an intellect, not a personality, not a skill or talent — absolutely nothing. It is all of God and all of Grace.

      • Manny1962 July 15, 2016 at 12:05 pm #

        Amen B! We don’t deserve or merit anything from The Lord, we are sinners, broken and wretched and He in his grace and mercy chose us.

      • vanessa August 15, 2016 at 1:00 am #

        Berlorac you made my heart sing when you said the Word Grace as I too recongnise what Grace is. When I read your post I was comforted in knowing who I am In Christ and I wish for others to know what Grace is but many dont grasp Grace or Pauls Gospel. They run from the truth. I ran to the truth and said “Lord no matter what the cost is I have to know the truth.”

        God revealed the mystery of Pauls Gospel.

        Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 1 Col 1:26. After the word Saints I place my Husband name and my name there as we are now the Saints the body of Christ. Amen.

  19. Manny1962 July 21, 2016 at 2:41 pm #

    This is funny, sad and scary all at the same time, if you believe the left/rightpolitical paradigm still exists, you’re in for a disappointing shock!


    Maybe Rodney can kneel with these clowns and do one of his magical conversions!