Progressive Christians and their doctrines of devils

counterfeit-3Do not be fooled by professing Christians who prefer either “progressive Christian” or “social justice Christian” over evangelical.  It matters not what trendy terms they come up with to describe themselves, these folks are leftists.  Some are Marxists.  And others are Communists.  As I said in a series of essays I wrote entitled “Liberals created the culture of evil and death” the visible Church has been infiltrated by:

…ubiquitous, aggressive liberals many of whom are renowned pastors, authors, conference speakers, missionaries, televangelists, radio hosts, and CEOs of Christian organizations.  As of late, even some of our most beloved evangelical leaders appear to be morphing into theological liberals.  The extent of movement to liberal ideology varies with each individual, but in certain cases they have gone completely off the rails. False doctrine abounds in books, Bible studies and Bibles authored by notable Christians and promoted by so-called Christian publishers and book sellers.  We have been duly warned about this sort of thing happening:

“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.” 1 Tim. 4:1

One such liberal is Jim Wallis, founder of Sojourners. For the remainder of this piece, my focus will be on Mr. Wallis who leads a pack of liberal wolves who cover themselves in sheep skin.  Forewarned is forearmed.  Once we’re aware of who the wolves are, we won’t be taken in by them – and we’ll be equipped to warn others about the liberal social justice gospel…that saves no one. 

In a blog post entitled “Progressive Christians to ‘Take Back Their Faith’ After Election,” Derryck Green informs us that progressive Christians were apoplectic over Donald Trump winning the election.  Green even “names names.”  For instance, he tells us that Rachel Held Evans was very unhappy about Trump’s triumph over Hillary Clinton.  Evans is a popular author, speaker and blogger who took to her blog to bewail the results: “We’re about to witness firsthand what happens when the established Church compromises its moral authority and sells out the marginalized ― refugees, immigrants, religious and ethnic minorities, sexual assault survivors, the sick and those with disabilities, and LGBT people ― for the promise of power. It won’t be pretty.”  Unfortunately, this progressive “Christian” has the ear of a large number of women.

Benjamin Corey is another name Green mentioned.  Corey suggested that: “This election revealed that a far larger branch of Christianity has been married off to political power than we previously thought,” emphasizing that the religious right is more concerned with political power than the actual gospel of Christ.

Green also mentioned Rev. Wallis:

Jim Wallis, founder of Sojourners and author of America’s Original Sin, claimed, “White Christians voted just like white people in America did, and being Christian didn’t matter much. So how do we teach white Christians, white evangelicals to be more Christian than white? That’s the issue going forward.”

Wallis – reflecting on Jesus’ counsel regarding the relationship between treating a ‘stranger’ and treating Jesus – suggested that pastors allow their churches to become sanctuaries to protect illegal aliens from deportation.

To an extent, there’s some truth about the concerns of progressive Christians. Corey’s observation regarding evangelicals having become too cozy with political power, which has muted the volume, consistency, and effectiveness of their prophetic political witness, is a legitimate concern.

But where’s the moral balance and condemnation of progressive Christians for having done the same? What about Episcopalians, Presbyterians (USA), a segment of Methodists, and other left-leaning Christians who’re guilty of preferring political power and cultural cache to the Christian gospel.

Whether one agrees or disagrees, at least conservative evangelicals can be praised for attempting to clarify – or redeem – what it means to be an evangelical and have a responsible and biblically articulate political witness in the age of Donald Trump. (Source) 

It seems students, faculty, staff and alumni at Fuller Theological Seminary took Jim Wallis’ suggestion and ran with it. A group from the seminary got together and penned a letter to President Labberton, et. al, with the heading: “Fuller Theological Seminary Sanctuary for Undocumented Immigrants requesting that ‘Fuller begins the necessary process to declare every campus a sanctuary for undocumented students and workers.’” The group collectively whined that the results of the election caused students to feel dismayed and disoriented.  Moreover, the letter presented their version of the gospel:

In the past week Dr. Labberton and Dr. Mouw wrote of Fuller Seminary’s non-negotiable commitment to the evangel, the gospel, which calls us to faithfully enact God’s good news of love, justice, and mercy.

Faithfully enacting God’s good news of love, justice, and mercy is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.  No.  What this is, brethren, is the social justice gospel.  Historic, orthodox Christianity has never taught liberalism’s faux gospel for the reason that it’s not the good news we find in Scripture, it’s a lie from the pit of hell!

Hopefully this information gives you a sense of the negative impact progressive Christians are having on the visible Church. So in closing let me now re-focus on Jim Wallis and the principle role he has played in the spread of the social gospel. Here’s an excerpt from part 3 of “Liberals created the culture of evil and death”:

Hillary Clinton, Jim Wallis, Barack Obama

Hillary Clinton, Jim Wallis, Barack Obama

To give readers a sense of what kind of person to be on the lookout for let me introduce one of the most dangerous wolves in Christendom, the Rev. Jim Wallis.  This man wears many hats.  He is the founder of Sojourner’s Magazine, speaker, author and activist.  He’s also President Obama’s “spiritual advisor.”  This alone speaks volumes.  Rev. Wallis insists that he’s an evangelical Christian even though he has abandoned the biblical gospel for the “social gospel.”  He believes he’s on a mission from God to assist the poor and oppressed to bring forth the Kingdom of God on earth.

David Noebel sheds light on some of the good reverend’s activities:

“Wallis’ Sojourners enterprise has been a radical, socialistic undertaking from the start. Frontpage Magazine (March 17, 2009) says, ‘As one of its first acts, Sojourners formed a commune in the Washington, D.C., neighborhood of Southern Columbia Heights, where members shared their finances and participated in various activist campaigns that centered on attacking the U.S. foreign policy, denouncing American ‘imperialism,’ and extolling Marxist revolutionary movements in the Third World.’” (Source

Jim Wallis also champions unbiblical movements such as the Emergent Church, Spiritual Formation (contemplative prayer/mysticism) and what he refers to as “spirituality.”  Here is his view of prayer: 

I pray, but there are many understandings about prayer. For many, prayer is talking to God, sometimes a great list of requests and needs—sort of like a child’s Christmas list mailed to Santa Claus. But at least for me, prayer is becoming a time of listening rather than talking. There is so much noise in our world and our lives (much of our own making); prayer becomes a quiet space that enables us to stop talking long enough to see what God might be trying to say to us.

The disciplines of prayer, silence, and contemplation as practiced by the monastics and mystics are precisely that—stopping the noise, slowing down, and becoming still so that God can break through all our activity and noise to speak to us. Prayer serves to put all parts of our lives in God’s presence, reminding us how holy our humanity really is. (The Great Awakening: Seven Ways To Change The World, 290) (Source)

Wallis is promoting unbiblical contemplative/centering prayer. 

On homosexuality he believes: 

[T]he major differences of theology and biblical interpretation in the church with regard to issues such as the nature of homosexuality, gay marriage, and ordination are not issues that should be allowed to divide the churches that local churches should lead the way here, and that an honest, open, respectful, and, hopefully, loving dialogue should characterize the church on these very controversial questions. (Source

Issues which are clearly unbiblical, such as the sin of homosexuality, should not be allowed to divide us?  Really?

Are professing followers of Jesus Christ supposed to ignore the Bible’s explicit teaching on marriage, one man and one woman for life, so that men can marry men?  Should we really go against what God says in His Word regarding His plan for sexuality and marriage and adopt a “pro-gay” theology to accommodate a small group of gays and lesbians?  The answer is “May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written, ‘That Thou mightiest be justified in Thy words, And mightiest prevail when Thou art judged.’” (Romans 3:4)

Going against God is folly!  (For the biblical view of homosexuality read Answering the Gay Christian Position)

Even though Wallis is a Red-Letter Christian and a Wild Goose chaser, he poses as an evangelical.  Sadly, he and his ilk have many starry-eyed, misguided followers who, like most liberals, wish to farm out their obligations to tax payers.

Liberals such as Jim Wallis dub themselves “progressive Christians” and more recently “social justice Christians” (SJC).  Social justice has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?  But hold your horses!  SJC has its roots in communism and has the same aim: The common good.

Sounds magnanimous, doesn’t it?  Don’t be fooled!  What these people are striving for is government transfer of wealth from one group of citizens to another to level the playing field.  Some liberals use Genesis 4:9 “I am my brother’s keeper” to make their case.  Leftist hypocrites have no problem quoting Scripture to defend wealth redistribution, but when conservative Christians quote Scripture to defend their opposition to abortion, homosexuality, same-sex marriage, and so forth they cry foul!

In an essay entitled “A Biblical View of Social Justice,” John Wheaton writes:

“[I]t is essential that Christians clearly define what social justice entails. On its face, the term has a positive connotation that conveys a seemingly strong sense of virtue and morality. Basing a claim on an appeal to “social justice” provides the claim holder with a degree of persuasive advantage – a kind of moral blessing on his or her political, theological, or social ideas.   However, social justice involves much more than a superficial label or feelings of compassion. It must involve a clear understanding and delineation of each social problem, the root cause of the problem, and the best solution for the problem. In short, “Good justice requires good judgment.”

For the SJC Christianity is a lifestyle.  Their morality comes, not from Scripture, but from popular opinion.  Although they believe that some things in the scriptures are true, the Bible doesn’t hold a place of authority in their lives.  As one blogger put it, “the emphasis is more on growth thru the process of work and serving others.”  In other words, a person must have faith plus he/she must do good “works” in order to be saved.  This teaching is demonstrably unbiblical.  “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8, 9) (Bold added)

Confused 3Many SJCs are Darwinian evolutionists, environmental extremists (save the planet, not souls), and they think nothing of co-mingling Christianity with paganism gleaned largely from Eastern mysticism.  They are supposedly Christians, yet many of them support abortion, the normalization of homosexuality, and same-sex “marriage.”  What is most telling is their denial of basic biblical doctrines such as the inerrancy of Scripture; the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ as God’s judgment for sin; Hell; and Jesus Christ as the only way to God and instead hold to collective salvation – all roads lead to God (religious pluralism).

What it all boils down to is that many SJC’s are cultural Christians.  They’re not regenerate (born again) believers.  In fact, they’re hostile to the true gospel. Moreover, their goal is the redefinition of traditional Christianity.

Liberal wolves are spreading a false gospel or what Peter called “damnable heresies.” (2 Peter 2:1–2)  In a word, evil. 

Recommended:

Part 1Part 2

Emergent Church White Paper—Berean Research

Steve Lawson presents the true Gospel of Jesus Christ

Emergent/Emerging Church documentary by Elliott Nesch

Copyright 2016 by Marsha West

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186 Responses to Progressive Christians and their doctrines of devils

  1. Manny1962 December 5, 2016 at 5:25 pm #

    This is what I’ve always called politicized Christianity, there’s a Roman Catholic strain of this, it’s called liberation theology. The mistake is calling it Christianity, it isn’t, just like American Churchianity is not Christian. They use the right phrases, the right terms, but in the center of their theology, the core is rotten. They’re concerned with everything social, but the saving gospels.

  2. larry December 5, 2016 at 6:40 pm #

    if any of these people do not know JESUS , their talk is cheap

  3. Edwitness December 5, 2016 at 9:08 pm #

    Jim is a Christian like Obama and Hillary are Christians. But, only in the marxist theology sense that they believe they can force on it.
    But, when Ananias and Saphira came to Peter to leave the money they got for the sale of their goods Peter made a clear declaration that property is to be voluntarily given up at the owner’s discretion.
    The gov is not supposed to take it against the owners will. That is called stealing. Which is a main tenet of the social gospel. That’s why they need their “gospel” to be enforced by gov’t.
    Like Marsha said, the social gospel is a lie from the pit of hell.

    Blessings:-}

  4. Eternity Matters December 6, 2016 at 11:39 am #

    Yes, the “Christian” Leftists are phonies. Jim “the Gospel is all about wealth redistribution” Wallis is awful. And Evans couldn’t even get past the cover of her book without making biblical errors.

  5. Wayne Capell December 6, 2016 at 2:37 pm #

    What absolute nonsense. This is a blasphemous misrepresentation of biblical christianity. The World need Biblical focus NOT political drivel like this.

  6. Wayne Capell December 6, 2016 at 2:58 pm #

    Christian right wingers are fraudulent selfish and greedy people who desperately need to repent of their fascist fantasies and seek the LORD Jesus Christ while He may be found.

    • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 3:22 pm #

      Wayne C,
      According to the scripture Jesus is seated at the RIGHT hand of the Father. And since the true church is known as the “body of Christ”, then we are seated at the Father’s right hand as well.

      I don’t know if you have noticed, but there is never anything that is noted as being to the Father’s “left”. So you might want to reconsider your “position” as it relates to the Father’s word. The Bible. Just sayin’

      • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 3:32 pm #

        I hope you are joking because that is childish drivel. God cares about people NOT Corporate Welfare.

        • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 3:43 pm #

          Wayne,
          I would expect no other kind of response from someone who has reduced the scriptures to “childish drivel” in believing that God intends for the people you say He cares about, to give to those who will not work for it, by the force of gov’t.
          Gov’t enforced redistribution of wealth is not a Biblical means of “giving”. Any more than that gov’t enforcing policies that are in rebellion to His word. Abortion, homo marriage/rights, etc… are abomination to God.

          • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 4:29 pm #

            God cares about people and that means an involvement in politics. The Bible clearly shows that selfishness and greed are not a part of the politics of God. Government investment in infrastructure and basic needs is integral to that commitment to people. Laissez-faire Capitalism is the doctrine of demons you refer to.

          • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 6:17 pm #

            Wayne,
            You mean like the saying that “if a man does not work neither shall he eat”? That’s funny, I thought that came from the Bible. Wait a minute, it does.
            “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.” No gov’t tax (theft) for welfare.
            Oh, and there’s this one that says what belongs to you is not the property of anyone else unless you willingly give it to them.
            Acts5:1-4;
            “But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold A POSSESSION,
            And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
            But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
            WHILES IT REMAINED, WAS IT NOT YOUR OWN? AND AFTER IT WAS SOLD, WAS IT NOT IN THINE OWN POWER? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.”

            Taking things by force of gov’t is not God’s method of taking care of the poor or the infrastructure etc…
            That is called theft in the Bible. Which is why tax collectors (thieves) have always been looked upon with scorn.

            Your social gospel is from the pit of hell. It finds no support in the doctrines of Bible.

          • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:22 pm #

            Your fascist perversions are evil. Turn to Jesus Christ and repent of your delusion before it is too late for you.

          • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 10:10 pm #

            Wayne,
            You call the scriptures being quoted “fascist delusions”. Now is the time you should offer some Biblical proof for your belief that what you are saying is found in the word of God.
            Book, chapter, and verse please.

          • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:30 pm #

            You give evidence of demonic deception. Repentance and contrition are still available to you.

          • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 10:13 pm #

            Can you give Book, chapter, and verse for what I need to repent from? Or just more of your communistic/satanist tripe?

          • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:34 pm #

            Turn to Jesus Christ before it is too late for you.

          • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 10:19 pm #

            Wayne,
            Can you tell me from the scriptures exactly how to do that? What is your understanding from the scriptures of how Jesus saves us?

      • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 3:47 pm #

        Your commitment to fascist subversive fantasies has perverted your religious perspective. God is NOT the fascist you want Him to be.

      • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 3:50 pm #

        How dare you presume to be writing this drivel for any reason other than to appease your own political fantasies.

      • Stephen James Schneider December 7, 2016 at 4:11 am #

        Hi Edwitness:

        Speaking about this ONE POST dated December 6, 2016 at 3:22 P.M. and NOT everything that you have posted, Wayne Capell is right describing that ONE post as drivel! Manny1962 is correct when he points out that:

        “God doesn’t care about politics period. God cares about what’s in your heart. Left and right political paradigms have been used to keep populations divided and controlled.”

        To try and equate Jesus “sitting at the right hand of ” God the Father as making the political right somehow better than the political left is absurd! God is without partiality.

        God doesn’t have a body, and certainly NOT a body like our own, Homo Sapiens. He doesn’t have hands or sides. He doesn’t have a backside that is seated on a throne with His Son on His right. All of these are metaphors as the Trinity doctrine makes clear. Jesus is NOT “seated” at the “right hand” of God — He IS GOD consubstantial with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit — ONE GOD, NOT 3 “GODS” IN ONE each existing in separate “space-time” locations from each other.

        Christians are supposed to be DEAD TO THE WORLD, crucified with Christ, and NOT INVOLVED IN POLITICS, either left or right. However, we ARE also told to produce good works (“fruits”) meaning that we are to help all those in need ALL THAT WE CAN. The example of Zacchaeus [Luke 19:8-10] is the ideal here, but many of us are unable to reach this ideal due to lack of means, but we can certainly strive to reach it insofar as we can. Every cent that we have is God’s money; none of it would be possible without Him. He owns it just as He owns all of us! The fact that He gives us the money we receive from whatever source is in part so that He can see what we do with it.

        Manny1962 is partially correct when he states:

        “God does not compel people to give to others He leaves that up to you, if you feel like helping a brother then by all means do it, it’s a great testimony, but that’s between individuals, not man made institutions.”

        However, it’s more than a great testimony; it is a necessary one! James 2:20 makes it clear that “faith apart from works” is USELESS to salvation. That’s NOT the kind of works that Ephesians 2:8-9 are speaking of, but the kind of works that Ephesians 2:10 speaks of. If you have the KIND OF faith that leads to (and is part of) salvation, as distinct from being saved, there is no sense of being compelled by others, Christian or Non-Christian alike, to Ephesians 2:10-type good works.

        Rather, the NEED to do this kind of good works wells up from within, in the same way that a painter MUST paint. A true Christian is simply UNABLE to turn his back on the suffering of those in need and CANNOT HELP but give and give generously, sometimes to the last penny in their possession [Mark 12:41-44]!

        That’s part and parcel of being a true Christian!

        And the kind of Christian that can know they have eternal life. The Christians who use the “Once saved, always saved” doctrine to justify their lack of Christian conscience are NOT going to enter Heaven after standing before Christ in the First Ressurection. Those Christians will instead be a part of the Second Ressurection after an entirely-equitable “time out” in the outer darkness where there is wailing and the gnashing of teeth” to reflect on their lives and how they lived their faith.

      • Stephen James Schneider December 7, 2016 at 4:57 am #

        Oh, and THAT is my opinion, and NOT a judgement of Christians who do not do ALL THEY CAN to help their fellow man. Judging is Jesus’ (God’s) job! It is NOT for we humans! God is perfect! We are NOT! Jesus will decide who enters Heaven and who doesn’t and when!

        With respect to your post dated today, December 6, 2016 at 6:17 P.M., I feel that you are overlooking the fact that NOT everyone on welfare “do not want to work”. That’s part of the rhetoric of the political right and (yes) there is rhetoric on the political left as well.

        Many people are disabled to varying degrees of severity and cannot work. Many have mental health issues that result in them being unable to act consistently or rationally enough, too much for employers who can hire those who are more emotionally stable. Many have been institutionalized, either literally or psychologically. Many have been raised in an environment of generational welfare and know no other way of living. Many are illiterate or poorly educated. Many live in areas where there is little or no availabe employment. Many have substance abuse problems and cannot work without first “kicking their habit” or are in abusive marriages and are not allowed to work by their spouses.

        The point is that welfare exists to help a wide spectrum of the poor, helpless, downtrodden, and marginalized. To paint everyone on welfare or to claim that even the majority of people on welfare are simply lazy and unwilling to work is to be out of touch with economic reality and all of the complexities of social problems worldwide.

        As to your opinion that taxes for welfare are “theft”, I refer you to Romans 13:1-7, Hebrews 13:17, and 1 Peter 2:13. As Jesus said, “Give to God what is God’s and give to Caesar (government) what is Caesar’s.”

        • Edwitness December 10, 2016 at 1:31 pm #

          Stephen J S,
          Let me see if I can help you with that ‘judging’ thing. Please read 1Cor.2:15
          “But he that is spiritual JUDGETH ALL THINGS, yet he himself is judged of no man.”

          Tell me what you read. How many things does the spiritual man judge?

          • Stephen James Schneider December 11, 2016 at 5:05 am #

            Hi Edwitness:

            Ah yes, one of the most misquoted biblical verses out there. This is because many Christians take this verse out of context. Head over to your favourite online Bible resource, app, program, etc. and compare the different translations of these verses in the different versions of the Bible and this will give you the correct context of the word “judge” (or “judgeth”) that Paul was using in 1 Corinthians 2:15 discussing how we Christians are to “rebuke” each other. For comparing the various translations of any biblical verse, I recommend Bible Hub. You just type in the verses you want to compare and choose “Bible Hub Parallels” under which version of the Bible you want. Very cool and a very useful resource for better understanding Scripture.

            Compare that side-by-side with John 8:2-11 where Jesus sets the standard and, as you know, it’s the standard that Jesus set that we Christians are to always strive to live up to. Compare that with Matthew 12:33-37 (especially verse 37), Luke 6:27-38 (especially verse 37), Romans 2:1 and 14:10-14. It’s easy to try to argue that Romans 2:1 is like Matthew 7:1, that it is telling us to not judge hypocritically, but the other verses clarify (especially John 8:2-11) that even without hypocrisy both verses are NOT conditional but absolute. NO passing judgement, NO condemnation, NOT EVER.

            “Hypocritically” is, like “alone”, words that have been ADDED TO Scripture and that, in my opinion, is a very “thin ice” approach to deciding what to believe the Bible says, EVEN MORE SO for those who insist that the Bible is not just reliable but also inerrant and infallible (which is again adding words that are not present).

            God bless and keep you and your family safe, my friend!

  7. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 4:22 pm #

    God doesn’t care about politics period. God cares about what’s in your heart. Left and right political paradigms have been used to keep populations divided and controlled. At the end we are getting a THEOCRACY wether anyone likes that or not. God does not compel people to give to others He leaves that up to you, if you feel like helping a brother then by all means do it, it’s a great testimony, but that’s between individuals, not man made institutions. You cannot politicize Christianity, if you do youget an abomination. We have mandates given to us by God, they’re written in our manual for living: the bible.

  8. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 4:30 pm #

    You pervert the Truth for your own ends

  9. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 4:34 pm #

    The early Church showed how it was done. Government can’t do it, thousands of years of man imposed aristocracy, parliamentary, dictatorial, and everything in between has not helped anyone except those that control the purse strings like Judas did……… Don’t look for man inspired answers for problems that are spiritual in scope.

    • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 4:45 pm #

      The church cannot afford the billions of dollars required to provide the infrastructure and essential services you are talking about. No wonder the church is NOT preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ they are too busy with social welfare and giving food parcels to the victims of elitist right wing policies.

    • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 4:57 pm #

      Laissez-faire Capitalism is the political doctrine of demons.

    • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 5:30 pm #

      Manny1962,
      To try to answer your question about whether the Bible instructs Christians to be involved with gov’t or not, I would ask a couple questions first.
      What do you think it means when the Bible says we are to abide by the laws of the land? And do you think that to live peaceably with all men could be made easier if we are involved in the making of the laws in the country we live in?
      And do you think that given the opportunity, we Christians should not make known the laws we want in the country we live in? Isn’t that possibly what is partly meant when we are told to “occupy until He comes”?

      There are a host of other questions that lead to what seems to be the necassary involvement at every level in gov’t by the Christian. We are salt and light, right? Does that not apply also in the opportunity we Christians in America have to influence our gov’t for good, instead of the evil influences that have filled the halls of gov’t, by virtue of the fact that so many Christians feel that they have no Biblically mandated place there? Instead of seeing it as an opportunity?

      Remember, even Paul asserted his rights as a Roman citizen. And in doing so was given the opportunity to witness of Christ in the halls of governmental power.
      I agree that we are not mandated by God to be involved in earthly gov’t. But, we are mandated to be salt and light to the whole world. We have been blessed by God with the opportunity here to be involved. Not a mandate. A blessing.

      The two parties that have come to represent our system of gov’t are only as righteous as the people who occupy the office. And they are generally sent there by those whose righteousness is equal to their own. In other words, a people get the gov’t they deserve.
      This world is not our home, but it is where we are for now. Occupy by being salt and light in whatever capacity God has called you to.
      Paul said it best in 1Tim.1:8-11;
      “But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
      Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
      For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
      According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”

      Do you think the unrighteous will put in place and implement the laws that Paul said were for those like them who are lawless? Only those who are righteous will do that. But, how can they if they are not involved?
      Think about it 🙂

      Blessings:-}

      • Stephen James Schneider December 7, 2016 at 9:40 pm #

        Hi everybody:

        I believe that Manny1962 is talking the most sense in this forum, even moreso than I am, although as a Canadian I have a different perspective on these significant problems facing nations worldwide. Canada certainly has its share of the working poor, homeless, disadvantaged, etc. and that I feel both the churches AND the government have a part to play in addressing these problems. Yes, human beings will fall short of fully solving these problems, but the point is that there is a balance to be aimed for between the two “camps” of political thought about these issues, and it is IMPERATIVE AND CHRIST’S TEACHING that we try, but NOT by being a part of this world.

        One point that Manny1962 did get wrong was when he stated:

        ” Jesus was not a revolutionary, He is a savior, the One and only Savior.”

        In point of fact, Jesus was BOTH the one and only Saviour AND He was the ULTIMATE revolutionary. He came to provide a means by which our sins could be forgiven and humanity reconciled to God, and He did this out of God’s supreme love, justice, and mercy. He is dedicated to NOTHING LESS than the overthrow of the current world system! Now, that’s going to be the revolution of all revolutions!

        Wayne, despite the intense rhetoric of his position on both politics and Christianity, has made a few valid points. Any kind of extremism (political, religious, etc.) is to be rejected by the faithful Christian; Christian charity (and significant charity, in accordance with our financial and other means, as each one of us will have to account for how we used those means that God has given us) is a crucial demonstration to one’s relationship (obediance) to God. [John 3:36] However, Edwitness is also correct that Christians are to be the salt and the light to the rest of the world. Throughout history, religious teaching has inspired countless unbelievers to strive for the betterment of all mankind. Of course, religious intolerance has also been the “inspiration” for some of the worst attrocities!

        While correct on some points, Ms. Walsh is also wrong on the point that most “Social Justice Christians” are “leftists”, “Marxists”, and “Communists”. It is in fact impossible for any Christian or for any member of ANY religion, by definition, to be Marxists and Communists. As Karl Marx said:

        “Religion is the opiate (heroin) of the masses.”

        In every marxist or communist nation, the widespread attempt to eradicate religion has been one of the first things that happens. To use labels like these to describe people and Wayne doing the same is to pass judgement on people, which Ms. Walsh has pointed out herself is a sin. Labelling policies (doctrines) is fine, but NOT people. As I have said before, THAT is God’s job, NOT ours! Why? God is perfect! We are NOT!

        Finally, some posting on this forum thread have made the mistake of using “evil” as a synonym for “spiritually dead”. Folks, let’s remember that God gave us all free will, and everyone is an individual, flesh and blood snowflakes. Unbelievers, like Christians, run the gamut from altruistic and noble to selfish and “holier-than-though”, but each has “faith” of one sort or another. I can guarantee you that many of those who are in the Second Ressurection where lack of faith is no longer possible will go on to enter Heaven, but (as I stated above) that’s for Jesus to decide.

        • Manny1962 December 10, 2016 at 1:06 pm #

          Good afternoon Stephen,

          I was referring to some calling Jesus a revolutionary, to push a political agenda such as Liberation Theology in South and Central America, NeoMarxism in the US. Jesus is a “revolutionary” in the sense He destroyed the old order of salvation by works such as in the old testament and gave us everlasting life exclusively through Him, as the blood of goats and bulls represented a temporary fix, His once and for all crucifixion has provided us a permanent way to be reconciled to God The Father.

          And you’re correct in pointing out that people don’t like labels or being insulted over dogmatic political beliefs, politicized Churchianity is not the way, man made governments are not the way and will fail miserably, more food is given to Africa on yearly basis than any other continent, yet massive governmental incompetence and tribal warlord theft insures starvation. Not too far from home, Haiti, an utter disaster, starvation and disease abound, yet billions poured into this island nation are pilfered by foreign NGOs (non-government organizations) and foreign “foundations.”

          It’s two different things to say people should have access to basic care, and that flawed human governments can do it, then to add insult to injury by blaming Christians for this not happening………….. it’s crazy, spouting the same thing over and over while insulting and labeling folks satanic, wackos, demonic, false, disgusting and a few other choice names I don’t recall, as for me I don’t hold anything against anyone, and if I’ve offended anyone I do ask for forgiveness, my conscience is clear before God. Jesus said we will have the poor with us until He returns, and we may do good to them when ever we wish, I myself can’t find any passage that says we are compelled to do so………it is our Christian duty and love to help those in need, that was always and still is the responsibility of the church of Jesus Christ comprised of individual believers, but to bring human government to this fray and blame the true church for government’s failure is utter stupidity. To believe we will eradicate poverty and hunger is wishful thinking and unrealistic. We seem to forget who is in control of this present world system. Until our Lord returns things will be getting worse. I happen to follow quite closely what is happening around the world in regards to politics and market conditions, part of me is rejoicing as I can see many, many scenarios coalescing into what has been foretold, part of me is saddened as I see the clock winding down and instead of evangelizing the lost we are locked in needless arguments that will not save any souls. Maranatha! May our precious God protect His people!

          • Edwitness December 10, 2016 at 1:14 pm #

            Amen Manny.
            God bless you brother:-}

        • Stephen James Schneider December 11, 2016 at 9:49 pm #

          Hi Manny1962:

          And I agree with you! It is WRONG for people to try to use Jesus to promote one political system or another, and even moreso when the system is contrary to biblical principles, since this means Christians are failing (or refusing) to remain dead to this world (system of things) that is indeed under the temptation (influence) of the Devil or Satan (who is NOT Lucifer, as many suppose, although Lucifer is (I believe) under his command).

          And the sense in which you agree that Jesus is a revolutionary is the same sense I was referring to when I stated that Jesus is the ultimate revolutionary. And just think how many political systems are going to be overthrown when He returns! Jesus may not be involved with worldly politics for now, but He MOST DEFINITELY is going to be involved in politics upon His return! As you said, whether one likes it or not, we will be in a theocracy with Jesus in the “big chair”, and I like it! I like it a lot!

          However, I believe that NOT ALL those who are spiritually dying (and are already as good as dead (ie. condemned to death)) are THEREFORE wicked, unrighteous, or evil. They are lost souls, but God NEVER gives up on lost souls. He brought me back to his Son Jesus for the first time after 30 years of perfectly-paced inspiration WITHOUT (as I have said in other forum threads) a single biblical verse. Indeed, many who are among the spiritually dying are better, more righteous people than many Christians!

          My point is that many, many unbelievers (who comprise approx. 69% of humanity) very much WANT to help those in need and make the world a better place, and I believe that they SHOULD be encouraged and ADMIRED for doing so, even as we try to evangelize to them, Catholic and Protestant alike, to help (by God the Father working through us, as per Ephesians 2:10). There are certainly Atheists who regularly work in soup kitchens, visit the sick and dying, assist prisoners in jail with education, legal defence, etc.

        • Stephen James Schneider December 11, 2016 at 9:55 pm #

          As I stated in my previous post:

          ” . . . I feel both the churches AND the government have a part to play in addressing these problems. Yes, human beings will fall short of fully solving these problems, but the point is that . . . ” we try.

          I agree with you that flawed human governments cannot do it. Of course, they can’t! As you stated:

          “To believe we (humans, on our own) will eradicate poverty and hunger is wishful thinking and unrealistic.”

          Of course it is. But that doesn’t mean that governments, charities, and unbelievers SHOULD BE EXCLUDED from the EFFORT to meet the basic care of people, both domestically AND internationally, or that any Christian should argue otherwise. Every avenue made available is an avenue that God MAY choose to utilize to care for His children until His Son returns to “set things right”.

          However, as I think you’ll agree, God never, ever does things in a way that supercedes free will. Yes, there is massive govermental incompetence and theft by tribal warlords and foreign NGO’s and foundations, but some aid DOES get through. And these thieves will have to answer for their actions, whether legal or illegal (in terms of human laws) when Jesus returns.

  10. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

    Show me one passage, just one, where scripture says you must be politically active. And one party is better than the other.

  11. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 4:48 pm #

    Government responsibility for the provision of adequate social welfare and infrastructure is the issue for the Bible believing Christian

    • Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 6:38 pm #

      No, the primary issue for a born again, bible believing, Christ following Christian is the salvation of souls. Everything else is secondary. I’d rather starve to death knowing Jesus as my savior, than have a belly full of food on my way to hell. Everything else is secondary to the first.

      • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 10:20 pm #

        Manny1962,
        Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen, AMEN!!!!!!

      • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 5:05 am #

        Not through the subversive strategies that you false teachers are employing.

  12. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 5:06 pm #

    Wayne my friend,. the same can be said about you…………

    “You pervert the Truth for your own ends”

    I would ask you to reconsider your stance on politics and Christianity. Not from a left/right paradigm, but from The Bride vs The World. Jesus nor the apostles ever tried to save the Roman or Jewish governments, the culture at large or even Caesar……….it was always one on one, and when large groups were added as in Acts, the author gives the credit to God.

    Jesus said we will always have the poor with us and we can do good for them whenever we wish, Mark 14:7

    I’m always warning Christians, the enemy of our souls uses politics against us, it’s man made. Yes, God instituted man made governments to keep the peace, not to transform our hearts.

    God bless you, and may your eyes be opened to see a different way!

  13. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 5:08 pm #

    Perhaps God has called you into a ministry to help the needy? Maybe it’s your calling, you seem to have a passion for the poor, perhaps this is something you should follow after thoughtful prayer. God bless.

    • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:13 pm #

      Repentance and seeking forgiveness for your greed and selfishness are what God wants from you. His Word will guide you if you will just surrender your delusion to Him.

  14. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 5:41 pm #

    Wayne you’re speaking like a politician, not a Christian, billions of dollars? Jesus said we shall always have the poor with us, that means until His return, again my friend you’re looking for a man made answer to a spiritual problem, it will never work out.

    Forget man made political ideologies, embrace Jesus, like I said before your passion for the poor is perhaps a ministry waiting to happen. Look at politics, what’s it doing to you? You’re angry, but your anger is focused on man, no political ideology will solve hunger or impoverishment.

    Forget left/right politics, they’re both a dead end. Laissez faire and Communism are both broken and corrupt, shaking the political tree will not fix the issue.

    The true church, The Bride is teaching The Gospels, and defending against insurmountable odds, from within false teachers trying desperately to gain their own sheep while misconstruing the words of God, from the outside….the very same government that does not help anyone except the hidden powers, the oligarchs that run this system, tries to tear us down. It’s a never ending struggle against the forces of evil, this will continue until our Lord returns.

    • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 9:49 pm #

      Amen Manny,
      The fix must be spiritual. Politics can never do it.
      Blessings:-}

      • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 10:02 pm #

        God may soften your heart towards people if you are huhumble enough to ask HIM. Your fascist fantasies show an extremely harsh spirit which can only be softened by God.

      • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 5:11 am #

        Your exaltation of Greed and Selfishness and misrepresentation of Biblical truth and reality on the alter of religious self promotion is hardly a contribution to anything of spiritual benefit. Only repentance and conformity to the Word of God will enable you to prosper spiritually.

        Your commitment to letting others suffer in the cause of your religious and political obsessions and perversions is abomination in the eyes of God.

        • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 6:45 pm #

          Wayne,
          Show us from Book, chapter, and verse in the Bible where your beliefs come from. Otherwise you would do well to go to a political website and argue the merits of your left wing ideology.
          Christians discuss the scriptures in our pursuit of the truth as it concerns all the choices we make in this life. We don’t spout political ideology alone.
          So words like fascism and other political titles mean nothing except when interpreted through the lens of the doctrines of scripture. That means if you can not give Biblical support for your position then it is either not Biblical or you don’t know whether it is or not. But, everyone here knows your position is not based in the teachings of Christ and His apostles. That is why you do not quote them. And instead quote your mentors. Thieves and liars all.

  15. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:15 pm #

    You are obviously committed to your fascist subversive fantasies. Only repentance and submission to the Word of God can save you.

    • Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 6:24 pm #

      My friend, you clearly are the one committed to man made fantasies, especially the fantasy thats called politics, so be it, you follow this world at your own peril, I’m not a prophet nor the son of a prophet, but I see bitterness in your life, you blame something thats not real, you’re like Don Quixote chasing the windmill fascist. My friend I repented a long time ago, Jesus saved me a sinner……..politics did not.

      God bless and may He open your eyes! Maranatha!

      • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 7:34 pm #

        Your commitment to doctrines of demons is unlimited. May God have mercy on you before it is too late.

  16. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 6:17 pm #

    Good evening Ed,

    The bible instructs us how to live in this society. We are to be salt and we are to be ambassadors for Christ. We are to shame those enemies of Christ by our conduct. If one has a desire to be involved in government, that’s fine, but passing laws will not change the hearts of any. We are to obey government as long as it does not compel us to break the laws of God or His commandments, the bible is clear the officer does not carry the sword for nothing.

    Given the reality of government’s anti Christian sentiment even while the “correct” party had the executive and Congress, we still are saddled with Roe vs Wade, we still have incessant and unneeded wars, think about it, we’ve been in conflict since Iraq, how long ago was that 1991? The email leaks proved government is completely broke and it serves only the elite. Where Wayne gets it wrong is calling the elites ” right wingers” something that has been drilled into people’s minds for over a century, divide and conquer. The elites have no party affiliation they proclaim an “ideology” when it suits their need. Both parties belong to the same hierarchy. They use people against each other to keep their place.This is how the Antichrist will rule.

    • Edwitness December 6, 2016 at 10:06 pm #

      Very true Manny,
      So who are these “elites”? Christians? No, they are the ones that people like Wayne vote into office. How did it get to the point where the Wayne’s of this country, on the left and right, make those decisions? By Christians deferring to them.
      But, except for some well meaning, albeit misinformed Christians, the left and the right are certainly playing on satan’s team. Their goals are the same regardless of what they say publicly.
      But, we never, never, ever give up. That is why in every way possible, including the voting booth, I will be salt and light in this world as long as God gives me breath. And I know you will be in whatever capacity the Lord lays on your heart too.

      Blessings:-}

      • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 10:11 pm #

        Your fascist ideology is a devil inspired ideology which has worked. I pray that God will break the hold it has over you.

      • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 10:38 pm #

        The elite want it all at the expense of ordinary people. Elitism is rampant throughout the false end time church riddled with apostasy and absorbed with self.

      • Wayne December 7, 2016 at 3:35 am #

        Right wing is Big business Left wing is Big government. Your extreme right wing ideology is fascist. There is little difference in terms of effect on the ordinary people. Extremism is your error Elitism is the nature of your delusion.

      • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 5:15 am #

        The elites are people very much like you who want it all and have no compassion for anyone but people who worship your particular “anointings.” Jesus referred to such people as Pharisees. Self seeking and self promoting individuals who want it all and are quite happy to see others suffering if it serves to promote them and their cause celebre.

        • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 6:48 pm #

          Wayne,
          In what way have I or anyone else here expressed the desire to be “Self seeking and self promoting individuals who want it all and are quite happy to see others suffering if it serves to promote them and their cause celebre.”?
          Book, chapter, and verse Please?

      • Manny1962 December 11, 2016 at 10:46 am #

        Good morning brother,

        The elites don’t have a political creed, their philosophy is not based on ideology, but money, and how to control it. Is it any wonder the bible gives money the name of Mammon? All of Wallstreet supported the “left” this election cycle, they poured billions to slush funds, foundations and NGOs to get “their” candidate “elected” these corporations, power brokers and consultants are not even the true power behind the curtain, for that you have to follow the money, it usually leads to foundations where a few super wealthy families have legally defended their fortune with the help of banks, lawyers, off shore LLCs, while moving money around to support their “causes.” This country is not what it seems, the Constitution is trampled on a daily basis, all the branches of government do as they please, executive orders are the rule. Democracy in this country does not exist, when government is in collusion with a supposed unbiased press, when government mandates through executive fiat, when powerful individuals are placed above the law and immune to jail, you know the justice system is broken. What we have from both “parties” is bread and circuses, nothing more.

        As this nation has ignored the Constitution, the cracks in the foundation grew larger, as society discarded God, the corruption set in, now it’s too late, it is disingenuous to call this country a Christian nation, it sounds great in a parade on the fourth of July, in a political speech, but the glaring truth this country only pays lip service to anything Holy.

        Now that “right” politician is in the slot, see what is happening………those Wallstreet CEO’s, the same ones that went against this candidate are quietly being put into positions of power and control, just do a cursory search on whom is filling major economic seats, it’s not surprising to me, but to anyone new to the circus it will be. I think the average person dies not want to know, they don’t want the onion peeled, people are comfortable in their daily routine, don’t rock the boat I just need my paycheck.

        Ironically, Google search “who funded development of Google.” My friend, we are tracked, processed, and controlled from cradle to grave, all the mechanisms needed to control society 24/7 are in place, we do live in a dystopian society, so cleverly set up and operated that we are under the illusion of being free! Think of the world as an orchestra, now put the evil one as it’s conductor. He has knowing willing and ignorant, unknowing minions, not all believe he is real and in power. As the common areas says….the biggest hoax the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn’t exist.

        • Edwitness December 12, 2016 at 2:18 am #

          All I can say to that Manny is AMEN!! You covered it quite well.
          Blessings:-}

          • Manny1962 December 12, 2016 at 3:28 pm #

            Ed I’m wondering if what is happening in this world is part of the illusion spoken against the fake church, is it connected? I wonder? Can the I’ll affect both the fake church and society at large……I’m beginning to suspect it does.

          • Edwitness December 12, 2016 at 10:34 pm #

            Manny,
            If you are referring to the strong delusion spoken of in 2Thes, I think it is referring to a time that will be after the AC comes to power. Because the passage says that this happens after the AC is revealed.
            But, that does not mean that satan is not at work in the earth bringing his plans to fruition. As much as God will allow. And it is absolutely evident though, that there is strong delusion here today. Just think how incredibly powerful it will be when the delusion of 2Thes begins! I’m sure glad we won’t be here for it:-D

            Maranatha!!
            Blessings:-} brother

  17. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:26 pm #

    Repentance will save you from your fascist subversive fantasies.

  18. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:36 pm #

    You must be a very evil person.

    • Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 6:40 pm #

      Aren’t we all? That’s why Jesus died, so evil people like you and me can have our sins not counted against us!

  19. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:44 pm #

    Your fascism is an evil counterfeit religion.

    • Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 6:55 pm #

      I’m apolitical so your label does not fit me, you my friend are tied to a false religion called politicized Churchianity.

  20. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 6:54 pm #

    Some of us have accepted His Salvation and are trying to live in accordance with His Word. His Word repeatedly warns of false teachers and the deception of the last days. The doctrine of demons promulgated in this propaganda article is what we are warned to avoid. God loves people NOT just your elite.

  21. Manny1962 December 6, 2016 at 6:59 pm #

    Well, good luck in your quest. I’d ask God to take the bitterness out of your heart. This is where I get off this merry go round, God bless and may He look out for you! Maranatha!

  22. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 7:35 pm #

    God is looking for you to repent and turn to Him before it is too late.

  23. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 10:06 pm #

    God will judge you for your elitist ideological obsessions hardness of heart and ignorance of His Word.Ask God for spiritual discernment.

  24. Amy Spreeman December 6, 2016 at 10:25 pm #

    Alrighty Wayne, you are not contributing to a godly discussion. You can just sit in time out until you behave.

    (Yes, I sound like my mother.)

    • Wayne December 6, 2016 at 10:57 pm #

      God cares about people. People need access to infrastructure and basic support systems. Denying basic necessities so that the elite can have more is a disgusting and unbiblical ideology.

      • rascott247 December 7, 2016 at 12:09 am #

        The one true God cares and provides for people. Who do those people who lack infrastructure and basic support systems turn to when in need? They turn to the god that you are promoting—the State. And the State loves you for preaching its gospel.

        • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 5:42 am #

          God loves people regardless of where they may happen to be spiritually or theologically,. Jesus Christ is appalled by your heartlessness.

    • Stephen James Schneider December 7, 2016 at 10:14 pm #

      Hi Ms. Spreeman:

      Completely unrelated, but I wanted to ask you if you have seen my two responses to your two requests to me that you made on the Michael Brown New Apostolic Reformation forum thread that morphed into a discussion on the Roman Catholic Church and its teachings, customs, etc.

      I hope that you have noted that I have limited my daily number of posts across ALL Berean Research forum threads to a maximum of seven posts, as per your first request.

      I believe however that I may have misconstrued your second request to not “push” the Catholic “apologetics”. Could you post a list of (say) 10 detailed “do”s and “don’t”s so that I have a better idea what I can say and what I can’t say to prevent any of my posts from being pulled off these forums never to return?

      Maybe on this forum thread so that others can make additional points as to what is O.K. and what is not or to weigh in on their opinions?

  25. Wayne December 6, 2016 at 10:53 pm #

    I’m urging Godliness in the face of open commitment to fascist fantasies. Only Biblical Christianity can save us from such disgusting attitudes towards people

    • rascott247 December 7, 2016 at 1:36 am #

      You are not urging Godliness. You are urging Statism .The Bible knows nothing of what you are saying. You call brother Manny a fascist and he cares nothing for politics or the State—do you listen? Fascism is Statism…take, take give which is what brother Ed warned against. You are urging a form Godliness but denying its power and have nothing to back your position but zeitgeist of this age.

      • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:02 am #

        You FRAUD. What a disgusting and person you are. Your FASCIST FANTASY has NEVER worked. Your commitment to that destructive ideology is a real eyeopener to anyone with spiritual discernment The NT is written to warn genuine christians to be wary of such as you.
        You are a False Teacher intent on deception and the maltreatment of many for the benefit of the elite. You are obviously an extremely UNGODLY and deceitful person. May God have mercy on you and enlighten you to the evil you are spreading before He brings Judgement upon you.

        • rascott247 December 7, 2016 at 2:08 am #

          How do you type while wearing a straight jacket? Nice trick!

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:11 am #

            Great comeback. The Devil certainly inspires you whenever you are confronted with Godliness of any kind.

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:14 am #

            fascism
            ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m/
            noun
            an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
            synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy, absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism; nationalism, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism, chauvinism, jingoism, isolationism; neo-fascism, neo-Nazism; corporativism, corporatism; historicalHitlerism; historicalFrancoism, Falangism
            (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices.

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:19 am #

            2 Thessalonians 2: 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

          • rascott247 December 7, 2016 at 2:32 am #

            The political spectrum from left to right is Left -Big Government (Marxism/Fascism) →Right-no Government (Anarchy) so you have your wings tied in a knot. Fascism is Big Government which means it is Left not Right! Why is it considered Right Wing? Hum a few bars and figure it out.

            Not one person engaging with you has promoted Big Government. You are a parrot. A poorly trained parrot.

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:37 am #

            Your persistent ignorance is astounding. You advocate right wing extremism which is fascism. I suggest you do some research into political and economic terminology and history to improve your understanding of the nonsense you are propagating Any extremism is demonic in origin. You are EXTREME in your promotion of EXTREMISM. You are spreading fallacy and doctrines of demons. People need basic government services and infrastructure regardless of your personal admiration for greed and selfishness.

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:40 am #

            I realize that comprehension is extremely difficult for you so i will repeat FASCISM ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m/
            noun
            an authoritarian and nationalistic RIGHT WING system of government and social organization.
            synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy, absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism; nationalism, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism, chauvinism, jingoism, isolationism; neo-fascism, neo-Nazism; corporativism, corporatism; historicalHitlerism; historicalFrancoism, Falangism
            (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices.

          • rascott247 December 7, 2016 at 3:24 am #

            Again you use your “jump to conclusions mat”. Right wing = no Government-none/nada. Left wing = Big Government- of which you seem to be a fan. Here is a lesson in delusion going on in your zeitgeist.

            From reality to the world you see..

            (Marxism/Fascism) Anarchy
            │———————————————————————│

            Marxism Fascism Anarchy
            │—————-│—————————————————│

            Nobody is talking about what you are talking about. So I ask again who do those people who lack infrastructure and basic support systems turn to when in need? Where do you point?

          • Wayne December 7, 2016 at 3:38 am #

            Anarchy is your state of mind. Fascism is your obsession.. Doctrines of demons is what you are peddling.

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 4:49 am #

            Anarchy has NOTHING whatsoever to do with your extreme right wing ideology.

          • rascott247 December 7, 2016 at 3:57 am #

            Anarchy and Fascism are polar opposites! You are the one wearing the straitjacket not me. You are still wearing it? Be careful we just might kick down your door. For what? Just to take like you want and preach.

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 5:22 am #

            1 Timothy 4 7 But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

            8 …………….. godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

            9 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

            10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

            11 These things command and teach.

            12 ……….. but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

            13 ………, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

            14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

            15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.

            16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

          • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 6:51 pm #

            Wayne,
            Thanks. In this you prove our view, not yours.
            1Tim.4:7-16

          • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 6:35 pm #

            Thanks rascott247,
            Isn’t that funny:-D His god is the god of confusion.

            Blessings:-}

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 5:00 am #

            Your Anti Biblical Extreme Right Wing ideology is most closely related to FASCISM ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m/
            noun
            an authoritarian and nationalistic RIGHT WING system of government and social organization.
            synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy, absolute rule, Nazism, rightism, militarism; nationalism, xenophobia, racism, anti-Semitism, chauvinism, jingoism, isolationism; neo-fascism, neo-Nazism; corporativism, corporatism; historicalHitlerism; historicalFrancoism, Falangism
            (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice

          • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 5:01 am #

            anarchy, however, has more to do with your state of mind than than the extreme right wing political ideology you are peddling
            ˈanəki/Submit
            noun
            1.
            a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems.

  26. Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:04 am #

    Godliness advocates Biblical christianity in an evil world. You people are actively promoting evil and the destruction of living and working conditions for the overwhelming majority of people. God has given you people over to your delusions as He has warned.

    • Manny1962 December 7, 2016 at 2:11 pm #

      Ridiculous. I know so many that help the poor, some whose ministry is to widows and orphans. Many who visit hospitals bringing good cheer of Jesus. Yet you lump all these Christians as fascist and ungodly, you need to apologize too many you haven’t even met, I have yet to read anywhere in scripture the license in which you use against Christians! You call yourself a Christian yet you treat others with contempt because they don’t hold the same political ideology you do! How crass! You’re not spouting Christianity your peddling social justice and liberation theology! You’re in for a very big surprise! All that you’re hoping to get from Caesar will not materialize, you will be very disappointed as you go through life insulting people because they do not agree with your political views. Please stop twisting scripture to fit your political beliefs, it’s transparent and becoming of one who purports to follow Jesus Christ. Jesus was not a revolutionary, He is a savior, the One and only Savior.

      • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 3:11 pm #

        So what. Your strawman arguments are as absurd as your extreme right wing ideology. Go do some charity work to appease your obsession with selfishness and greed.

        You are a disgusting bunch of pseudo christian wackos desperate to deny ordinary people a fair go so that you can make magnanimous gestures of charity.

        Typical Pharisee.

        • Manny1962 December 7, 2016 at 4:29 pm #

          I already told you once I’m apolitical, I hold to no political ideologies, I discarded that years ago, I’m not a proponent of man’s government, I view government as an institution ordained by God to keep the peace and my obligations as a Christian to it, that’s it……….as I have gotten closer to Christ my taste for the things of this world have really wanted.

          You are a bitter, angry sad excuse for a Christian, sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. You profess to be a Christian, but all you spout is hatred, insults, ignorance and you hide behind the faux façade of your self righteous hypocrisy, you should be ashamed of yourself for using the poor to further your political agenda.

          • Wayne December 7, 2016 at 4:34 pm #

            Only the Holy Spirit can deliver you wacko from the ravages of Satan. Repentance is what God requires . Cease from spreading lies and deceit. You will answer to God for your Satanic propaganda.

      • Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 3:17 pm #

        Only the Holy Spirit is able to enlighten you to the Truth. I cannot help you. Only God can save you. Turn to Him before it is too late for you.

        • Manny1962 December 7, 2016 at 4:56 pm #

          You’re a troll, nothing more nothing less, you’re worthy of pitty………., truly Paul was right about casting pearls before swine. Go repent, you abuse the name of Jesus Christ with your insults to Christians everywhere. You should consider your faith, your salvation and your hardened hear before claiming Christ as yours. You accuse others without knowing them, you fabricate lies by calling people fascists and greedy, you’re a farce, you want to be holy but you’re a profane person, speaking of Jesus and God with the same tongue you deride those made in His image, you’re a liar and a hypocrite.

          I have no qualms calling you out, I really don’t care what you call me or think of me, but it does bother me when you attack fellow brothers that have been trying to reason with your stony heart. You love to call us satanic, but it is you who has shown your love of his language and methods. I’m surprised you haven’t been banned. Do yourself a favor, go read a bible perhaps you’ll learn what grace means, you whitewashed tomb.

      • Wayne December 7, 2016 at 3:27 pm #

        Your commitment to the extreme right wing elitism and ideology of fascism is obviously inspired by Satanic influences. The Great End time Apostasy is rampant throughout the false church.

  27. Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:06 am #

    2 Thessalonians 2:11
    And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

  28. Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 2:19 am #

    2 Thessalonians 2: 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

  29. Wayne December 7, 2016 at 4:37 am #

    Left wing is Big government. Right wing is Big business. The further away from the centre the less difference is the difference between the two ideologies. Extremism is the ultimate doctrine of demons. God however cares about people NOT ideological obsessions.

  30. Wayne Capell December 7, 2016 at 4:52 am #

    anarchy has more to do with your state of mind than than the extreme right wing political ideology you are peddling
    ˈanəki/Submit
    noun
    1.
    a state of disorder due to absence or non-recognition of authority or other controlling systems.

  31. Q December 7, 2016 at 3:28 pm #

    Zeal without knowledge.

    • Wayne December 7, 2016 at 4:09 pm #

      Satanic propaganda is destroying Biblical Christianity in favour of extreme right wing elitism in association with counterfeit religion and occultic teachings and practices.

    • Wayne December 7, 2016 at 4:27 pm #

      Hold fast Stand firm to the Faith once delivered.

    • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 5:44 pm #

      Q,
      You are exactly right Brother. Wayne has no desire to know Jesus. His only use for Him is to preach a perverted view of His love. Like Sharpton and Jackson et al. One that leaves men in the same condition as they are found in. Dead and going to hell. That is why he expects gov’t to do for them what only God can do. Because he worships gov not God.

      Blessings:-}

      • Q December 8, 2016 at 11:29 pm #

        Yes Brother Edwitness, the more government meets peoples needs the less they/we see the need to seek God. I’m for helping those in need even if it’s their own fault (most problems we cause to ourselves) and even with our tax dollars but not when it keeps people from seeking or depending on God. He’s our Savior and Provider.

        I think the government in the church age is supposed protect its constituents, punish criminality and promote the general welfare of that nation, that’s about it. I think that includes fresh water and taking away my trash… 🙂

        • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 11:43 pm #

          Your obvious commitment to satanic teachings and principles make Biblical teaching pointless with you.

          As the Bible says. 1 Corinthians 2:14 ►
          King James Version
          But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

          I will not attempt to burden you further with anything of a Biblical or Godly nature.

          • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 12:15 am #

            Wayne,
            Why change now, right? I haven’t read a single “biblical or godly” thing from you yet. You can paste a scripture in your comment space, but I have yet to see where you use it in a Christian manner.

          • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:19 am #

            Is there NO end to your rebellion against God?

        • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 11:59 pm #

          Your commitment to Satan and his teachings has completely destroyed your reasoning faculties. Spiritually you are like a drug crazed addict is spiritually. You are deluded because God has given up on you. 1 Corinthians 2:14 ►

          King James Version
          But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

        • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 12:09 am #

          Q,
          The fed gov is there to protect our borders from enemies and to insure the people have the freedoms that God has given us. Mint money (gold and silver coin) and determine it’s value. All laws the Congress passes should be confined to these issues. Nothing more.

          What the fed gov gives it can also take away. That is why their authority is to be so limited.
          The general welfare clause has been redefined by big gov’t advocates in order to make gov’t God. The all supplying parent. This by definition takes our eyes off of God and places them on the fed gov.

          Our trash is done by private companies. The best gov’t is a small gov’t.

          Blessings:-}

          • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:12 am #

            God requires repentance and humble submission to His Word before He will enable you to have sufficient spiritual discernment to see through the delusion that has ensnared you.

          • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 12:30 am #

            Wayne,
            Book, chapter, and verse for that opinion please?

          • Q December 9, 2016 at 12:23 am #

            Ed, I think my trash is captured by the city not the fed.

            You’re obviously taken in by the god of this world, a horrible person, and spreading propaganda……..

        • Stephen James Schneider December 9, 2016 at 4:43 am #

          Hi Q:

          I’m in full agreement when you stated:

          “I’m for helping those in need even if it’s their own fault (most problems we cause to ourselves) and even with our tax dollars but not when it keeps people from seeking or depending on God.”

          While many, many people are unable to work or are unable to earn enough to meet their basic needs even with two adults both working (the “working poor”), there are many who have ended up on welfare because of bad choices they’ve made in the past, and it is our Christian responsibility to help ALL those in need within our means and ability. I believe and trust that you agree that how a society takes care of its citizens or promotes the common good is the benchmark of any civilized nation. Generousity as part of the wise distribution of our taxes coupled with individual generosity by both Christians and Non-Christians alike.

          Those are the greatest commandments: To love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, and souls; and to love our neighbours (who have fallen on hard times, regardless of why) as ourselves. Believers and unbelievers alike, we are ALL our “brother’s keepers”.

          And I find that those who are less preoccupied with basic survival are more likely to come to God or grow in faith!

    • Manny1962 December 7, 2016 at 7:38 pm #

      Zeal? I think you’re being generous Q………….

      • Q December 8, 2016 at 11:14 pm #

        Seems zealous Manny.

  32. Wayne December 7, 2016 at 4:37 pm #

    Biblical Christianity is the only way.

    • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 5:45 pm #

      Wayne,
      You have not the faintest idea what that really means.

  33. Wayne December 7, 2016 at 6:27 pm #

    Ed you are hopelessly lost.

    • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 8:47 pm #

      Wayne,
      Biblical book, chapter, and verse please?

  34. Wayne December 7, 2016 at 6:29 pm #

    Repentance and humility and submission to Biblical Christianity is your only hope for salvation.

  35. Wayne December 7, 2016 at 6:31 pm #

    Your fascist subversive fantasies are an abomination to God. Repent of your delusion and turn to Christ before it is too late for you.

  36. Wayne December 7, 2016 at 7:06 pm #

    Straight is the gate and narrow is the way and few there be that find it.

    • Edwitness December 7, 2016 at 9:10 pm #

      Wayne,
      “…few there be that find” what?

      • Wayne December 8, 2016 at 1:14 am #

        A basic understanding of Biblical Christianity and the English language is required to understand this passage. I realise that this is beyond you. Sorry about that.

        • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 1:23 am #

          Wayne,
          Right. So tell me if you can, “…few there be that find”…what?

          • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 2:48 am #

            the way. God has made a very narrow way of salvation for those He has gifted with the ability to discern.

          • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 1:08 pm #

            very good Wayne,
            Now please explain what you believe that “way of salvation” to be? Please use book, chapter, and verse in your explanation. And while your at it please explain how it matches with what you believe the true Christian believes about politics.

          • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 3:30 pm #

            You fascist subversives are the greedy ones too selfish to pay taxes to attend to the essentials of ordinary people. God hates your selfishness. Repentance is what He requires of you

          • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 9:45 pm #

            Wayne,
            No one said they don’t pay taxes.

          • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 2:52 am #

            The Bible speaks for itself Matthew 7:14King James Version (KJV)

            14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

          • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 6:58 am #

            Don’t take advantage of the poor just because you can;
            (Proverbs 22:22)

          • Stephen James Schneider December 9, 2016 at 5:22 am #

            Hi Wayne:

            Also, Proverbs 22:16 and Proverbs 22:23-25. Most people on these forums won’t respond to insults or labels in a positive manner, but find the Scriptural verses to argue your point and suddenly folks here START to pay attention. God’s word silences all non-biblical folly.

            Check out my posts above. I’m a political moderate more-or-less down the middle, though I pay little attention to wordly affairs. I do my part, what I can, and I trust in God for all my needs and place everything else into His Supremely capable hands. He has never let me down. Sometimes, He even gives me SOME of my wants, but NEVER all of them thank God!

  37. Manny1962 December 7, 2016 at 7:30 pm #

    This is how Caesar treats the homeless………yes expect big brother to help.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-07/war-homeless-cities-across-america-are-making-it-illegal-feed-and-shelter-those-need

    “If you want to be a “Good Samaritan” to the homeless in your community, you might want to check and see if it is legal first. All over the country, cities are passing laws that make it illegal to feed and shelter the homeless. For example, in this article you will read about a church in Maryland that was just fined $12,000 for simply allowing homeless people to sleep outside the church at night. This backlash against homeless people comes at a time when homelessness in America is absolutely exploding. In a previous article, I shared with my readers the fact that the number of homeless people in New York City has just set a brand new all-time high, and the homelessness crisis in California has become so severe that the L.A. City Council has formally asked Governor Jerry Brown to declare a state of emergency. Sadly, instead of opening up our hearts to the rapidly growing number of Americans without a home, way too many communities are trying to use the law to force them to go somewhere else.

    For nearly two thousand years, churches have been at the forefront of helping the poor and disadvantaged, but now many communities are trying to stop this from happening. Earlier today, I was absolutely stunned when I came across an article that talked about how a church in Dundalk, Maryland has been fined $12,000 for allowing the homeless to sleep outside the church at night…

    “I showed up Wednesday morning to find a citation on the door that said we’re going to be fined $12,000 and have a court date because we have unhoused homeless people sleeping outside the church at night,” said Reverend Katie Grover with the Patapsco United Methodist Church.
    Grover added that the men and women who sleep outside their doors do so because they have nowhere else to go and because they feel safe there.

    “We feel we here as a church that it’s scriptural mandate that’s it an imperative to care for the least, the last, the lost, the poor, the hungry,” she said.
    The authorities in Dundalk say that the church is running a “non-permitted rooming and boarding house”, and the severity of this fine is likely to put the church in significant financial difficulty if it is forced to pay it. You can watch a local news report discussing this story on YouTube right here…

    Of course Dundalk is far from alone. All across the U.S. laws have been passed that specifically target the homeless. According to the National Coalition for the Homeless, the following are some of the most typical ways that the homeless are targeted…

    Carrying out sweeps (confiscating personal property including tents, bedding, papers, clothing, medications, etc.) in city areas where homeless people live.
    Making panhandling illegal.
    Making it illegal for groups to share food with homeless persons in public spaces.
    Enforcing a “quality of life” ordinance relating to public activity and hygiene.
    There are some people that have been feeding the hungry for decades that now find that their work has been suddenly made illegal. For instance, down in Houston a Good Samaritan named Jay Hamberger is outraged that the help that he has been providing to the homeless for 27 years has now made him an outlaw…

    Jay Hamberger has been bringing food to Houston’s homeless for 27 years. He feels the city is infringing on his right to help others by requiring him to have prior permission to distribute food on public and private property.

    “I’ve done it with impunity for 27 years now, and I’m the most law-abiding outlaw, because what I’m doing is illegal,” Hamberger said. “My understanding is that there’s no legal way to make this right with the city.”
    This is just another example of how our society is being strangled to death by control freaks.

    If I see someone that is desperately hungry and I want to give that person food, then I am going to do it no matter what the law says.

    Unfortunately, as the homelessness crisis continues to escalate these types of laws are only going to increase. Even in supposedly “tolerant” areas of the country we are seeing draconian measures being implemented. For example, just check out the new ordinance that was just passed in Los Angeles…

    LA legislators passed an ordinance that would ban people from sleeping in cars and recreational vehicles (RVs) near homes, parks and schools. Advocates see the ordinance as the latest move to criminalize homeless people.

    The Los Angeles City Council voted in favor of the ordinance on Wednesday. Banning people from sleeping near homes, schools and parks in their vehicles, would, if signed into law, only make it legal to sleep overnight in cars and RV’s in industrial or commercial districts from 9:00pm to 6:00am.
    As millions of Americans have fallen out of the middle class in recent years, we have seen an explosion in the number of people living in cars, trucks and recreational vehicles. This is something that I addressed in my recent article entitled “Living In A Van Down By The River – Time To Face The True State Of The Middle Class In America“. During this time of the year many that live in their vehicles head for warmer climates, and cities like Los Angeles are responding to the influx of homeless people by trying to force them to go somewhere else.

    And this “war on the homeless” has actually been ramping up for quite a while. Just check out these numbers from the Washington Post…

    Cities have enacted a wave of crackdowns and new laws against panhandling, camping and other activities associated with homelessness. They say such efforts help preserve the renewed vitality, curbing crime, health problems and behaviors that bother residents and disrupt business.

    Between 2011 and 2014, the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty found that bans on sleeping in cars shot up 119 percent, citywide camping prohibitions jumped 60 percent, anti-loitering laws increased 35 percent and anti-begging laws increased 25 percent in a survey of 187 cities.
    Homeless people do not have a permanent address, and there is always a temptation to try to force them to go somewhere else so that they become someone else’s problem.

    But the truth is that we have a massive national crisis on our hands. The number of homeless children in this country has increased by 60 percent since the end of the last recession, and the number of homeless people sleeping in shelters has risen to record levels in major cities on both the east and west coast.

    And considering the fact that about two-thirds of the country is currently living paycheck to paycheck, how bad will things get once the next major recession strikes?

    Poverty is growing all over the nation, and at the same time hearts all over America are growing very cold.

    I truly fear for what this country is going to look like just a few years from now.”

  38. Manny1962 December 7, 2016 at 7:32 pm #

    When the church steps in, Caesar intervenes.

    • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 2:51 am #

      The church is predominantly apostate and contributing to the mess rather than upholding biblical principles.

  39. Wayne December 7, 2016 at 10:29 pm #

    Your persistent raving and obsessive compulsive commitment to fascism is evidence of demonic activity in your life. You desperately need spiritual deliverance before it overwhelms you completely.

  40. Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 3:04 am #

    Extremism of any kind is demonic in origin. Reality dictates that people need access to basic essentials such as health care, roads, transport, social welfare of all kinds. The church has collapsed spiritually because it has abrogated the Commission to faithfully preach the Word of God in favour of good works and concern for public perception. This is the Great Apostasy Bible believing christians have been prepared for.The billions of Dollars required to provide for the needs of people in a civilized society is the responsibility of the entire community NOT merely the religious. The inclination to blame the poor and needy or even just the working and middle class for their situation is completely unacceptable for any fair minded person, let alone the person guided by the Holy Spirit into living in accordance with the Word of God. Give unto Caesar that which is Caesars and elect public officials with the compassion to use available resources in the best interests of the majority not merely the social elites, multi national corporations and vested interests. God cares about people NOT ideologies.

    • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 1:22 pm #

      But, the question is, Is it Biblical, is it Christian, to take by force something that belongs to someone to provide for someone else that won’t provide for themselves?
      The answer to this is obviously no.
      It must be done voluntarily in order for it to be Christian. Otherwise it is theft, right?
      If I come to your house and ask you to give me all your money, you can easily say no. But, if I come to your house with a gun (gov’t) and say give me all your money, you will give it. But, that is theft. Not charity.
      This is why it is not the job of gov’t to decide where your money should go.

  41. Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 3:10 am #

    God’s identification with the poor
    Proverbs 14:31 (NIV)

    “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”

    Greed selfisness exploitation and mistreatment of people for personal gain will result in the harsh judgement of God on the judgement day if not before regardless of their religious convictions in this life.

    • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 1:24 pm #

      Wayne,
      What Christians are oppressing the poor?

    • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 1:35 pm #

      Wayne,
      Who are the greedy ones here? And what Christians are oppressing the poor?
      The gov’ts own figures show the federal government spends $668 billion dollars per year on 126 different welfare programs (spending by the state and local governments push that figure up to $1 trillion per year).Jan 12, 2014

      • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 4:47 pm #

        Extreme right wingers are attacking that level of support regardless of whether it is adequate or not in favour of massive Corporate Welfare such as massive Tax Cuts and concessions. History and economic modelling have consistently shown that what the Literature refers to as Trickle Down economics does not work. Civilized societies need a balanced middle of the road position attending to the needs of the entire community NOT just the top 1% as the current ideological trend proposes. The level of homelessness poverty the expectation that many people work for poverty wages the unaffordability of health care and education for a large proportion of the people the poor state of infrastructure either new or upgrades are all indications that the basic economic model is failing. The obsession with war and military expenditures which favour certain groups which are also profiteering from providing arms to both sides of the conflict at a huge profit. This obsession with enabling the elite to profiteer at the expense of the ordinary citizen is what knowledgeable people are outraged about. People are the issue NOT corporations.

        • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 5:01 pm #

          Wayne,
          No wonder you and I are such polar opposites. I disagree with any and all income taxes and property taxes because they are unconstitutional.
          While you believe in theft through any and all taxation as long as it goes to your interest group.
          You sir are profoundly hypocritical.

          • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 5:07 pm #

            Your position is completely irrational economically and morally. You are a disgusting arrogant and particularly evil human being who God will call to account on the judgement day. It is HIM you will answer to NOT me. You are a complete FRAUD. The Bible calls people like you WOLVES. You are promulgating the delusion that God has sent to those who do NOT love the Truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness. You are doing the work of Satan.

          • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 10:11 pm #

            Wayne,
            Book, chapter, and verse please?

          • Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 5:11 pm #

            (1 Timothy 6:10, KJV): “For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.”

          • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 10:15 pm #

            Wayne,
            Right back at you. You are the one who wants to steal other people’s money. I just want people to work for theirs instead of stealing what God has given me. You know, like Paul wrote in 2Thes.3:10- “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”
            See how it works? Book, chapter, and verse:-)

  42. Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 6:59 am #

    Don’t take advantage of the poor just because you can;
    (Proverbs 22:22)

  43. Wayne Capell December 8, 2016 at 3:31 pm #

    Your political obsessions are oppressing the poor. Open your eyes to reality.

    • Edwitness December 8, 2016 at 9:48 pm #

      Wayne,
      Book, chapter, and verse please? Otherwise it is just your opinion.

      • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:01 am #

        You are not capable of coping with anything Biblical or Godly because God has given you over to your Satanic commitments. Spiritually you are like a drug crazed addict is spiritually.

        1 Corinthians 2:14 ►
        King James Version
        But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

        • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 12:23 am #

          Wayne,
          Can you tell me what some of those “things of God” are that the natural man is unable to discern?
          Book, chapter, and verse please?

          • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:27 am #

            “Pearls before swine” and “casting pearls” refer to a quotation from Matthew 7:6 in Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount: “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.” Your commitment to extreme right wing elitism demonstrates emphatically that you are clearly NOT able to cope with anything Biblical or Godly so I will NOT try.

        • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 12:26 am #

          Wayne,
          And could you tell me what the difference is between a spiritual man and a natural man?
          And how a natural man can become a spiritual man?
          Book, chapter, and verse please?

  44. Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:06 am #

    Should read drug crazed addict is physically. You are clearly NOT spiritually capable of coping with sound Bible teaching as your commitment to Satanic principles has overwhelmed your life.

    • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:17 am #

      God requires REPENTANCE CONTRITION and HUMBLE submission to HIS WORD before HE will enable you to spiritually discern the evil that has ensnared you. Apparently God has given you over to the evil desires of your heart. Perhaps you should go out and curse poor and needy people for their predicament instead of cursing the message of repentance that God has for you.

  45. Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:32 am #

    Being born again of the Spirit of God changes the perspective of the believer from the carnal perspective that you advocate so forcefully to the Spiritual perspective which the Holy Spirit will lead and guide one into. You are obviously not capable of coping with anything Biblical or Godly because God has given you over to your Satanic commitments. Spiritually you are like a drug crazed addict is spiritually.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 ►
    King James Version
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 12:37 am #

      Wayne,
      That’s a start. Now please tell me, what happens that makes a man born again? And how does that make a man able to hear and understand the Lord?

      • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 12:53 am #

        The Truth of the Word of God is spiritually discerned and as such the ability to be born again is a gift from God. It is only God who can open your eyes to the Truth of His Word and His Heart for people rather than your political ideologies and carnal commitment to money at all cost.

        • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 3:00 pm #

          Wayne,
          There is no one that I have written to or read here that calls themselves Christian that is committed to money. You are the only one that seems obsessed with it.

          • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 3:55 pm #

            You refuse to be balanced in your political expose. People need government support to the balanced levels that have been outlined repeatedly. Your obsession with Laissez Faire market capitalism is ungodly, anti people anti Bible and based solely on greed and selfishness. History and a basic understanding of economic principles will enlighten you in that area if you consider that I have misjudged you. You give every indication of having absolutely NO idea of the nonsense you write about.

          • Edwitness December 9, 2016 at 11:42 pm #

            Wayne,
            The Bible teaches private ownership of property. This means that God is against property taxes. Just one example of your perversion of what the Bible says.
            And because Jesus said to render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s, does not mean He condoned the taxes the Romans forced it’s subjects to pay. Any more than those that are forced upon us.
            Charity is not the Biblical purpose of taxes. And a forced tax is the antithesis of charity.
            The tax Israel was required to pay was for the care of the temple and it’s priesthood. That is what the purpose of the tithe was. It was a temple tax.
            Washington, DC is not a temple to the God of the Bible.

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 1:10 am #

            Your have persistently refused to consider the needs of people in your obsession for extreme right wing elitism. God clearly wants a middle of the road compassionate and caring society. You have repeatedly abused me for pointing that out to you. God hardened Pharoahs heart just as he has hardened your heart. I cannot help you.

          • Edwitness December 10, 2016 at 4:03 am #

            Wayne,
            When you say “I cannot help you.” I heartily agree with you. Because you do not have words of life. Only death.

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 4:28 am #

            Your commitment to false religion is spiritual death. You are beyond help. I urge you to cease from taking others to hell with you.

          • Wayne Capell December 9, 2016 at 11:16 pm #

            Your persistent commitment to the evil elitism of this extreme right wing ideology that you are peddling has an obviously demonic influence associated with it. Ultimately, however, God appears to have given you over to your evil desires and hardened your heart to the Truth of His Word. It is unlikely that you will ever be free of your heartless delusions.

            Hebrews 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

          • Edwitness December 10, 2016 at 12:46 am #

            Wayne,
            You said “Ultimately, however, God appears to have given you over to your evil desires and hardened your heart to the Truth of His Word. It is unlikely that you will ever be free of your heartless delusions.”

            Please show me where I have said anything that would lead you to this conclusion? Book, chapter, and verse please?

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 1:34 am #

            Your persistent strawman arguments and completely irrelevant statements addressing irrelevant issues that obviously pervade your metal capacity cause me to suspect your commitment to this extreme ideology extends beyond reason and logic which you clearly over ride when advocating your passion for fascism. This may explain your apparently being completely oblivious to the issues and errors of your extreme ideology. Early academic studies adopt psychoanalytic explanations for the far-right support. For example, the 1933 publication The Mass Psychology of Fascism by Wilhelm Reich argued the theory that fascists came to power in Germany as a result of sexual repression. For some far-right political parties in Western Europe, the issue of immigration has become the dominant issue among them, so much so that some scholars refer to these parties as “anti-immigrant” parties.[34]

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 1:47 am #

            “Though sympathetic to the financial dislocation, the struggles with addictions, the pain of domestic and sexual violence, and the deep despair that drew people to the right wing movement, I was also acutely aware of the dangerous ideology these people embraced. Fascist movements begin as champions of civic improvement, communal ideals, moral purity, strength, national greatness and family values. These movements attract, as has the radical Christian right, those who are disillusioned by the collapse of liberal democracy. And our liberal democracy has collapsed.

            We have abandoned our poor and working class. We have created a government monster that sucks the marrow out of our bones to enrich and empower the oligarchic and corporate elite. This is who you are supporting wholeheartedly Ed. The protection of criminals, whether in war or on Wall Street, is part of our mirage of law and order. We have betrayed the vast and growing underclass. Most believers within the Christian right are struggling to survive in a hostile world. We have failed them. Their very real despair is being manipulated and used by Christian fascists such as the Texas senator Cruz. Give to the working poor a living wage, benefits and job security and the reach of this movement will diminish. Refuse to ameliorate the suffering of the poor and working class and you ensure the ascendancy of a Christian fascism. This is why you people are against giving ordinary people a fair opportunity.

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 2:24 am #

            I repeat Give to the working poor a living wage, benefits and job security and the reach of this movement will diminish. Refuse to ameliorate the suffering of the poor and working class and you ensure the ascendancy of a Christian fascism. This is why you people are against giving ordinary people a fair opportunity.

          • Edwitness December 10, 2016 at 4:07 am #

            Wayne,
            You said the Bible teaches this nonsense you are spouting. Please show where it does that? Book, chapter, and verse please?

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 4:34 am #

            Your commitment to fascist subversive fantasies is breathtakingly evil. Please leave other people alone.

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 4:52 am #

            Your disgusting false religion is clearly satanic. I urge you to spare your victims and keep it to yourself.

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 4:54 am #

            1 John 4:8New International Version (NIV)

            8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

            God NEVER seeks to ensnare and impoverish people as you are so desperate to do.

          • Edwitness December 10, 2016 at 2:36 pm #

            Wayne,
            God’s ways are not man’s ways. His love is obviously not what you think it is. Tell me from the scriptures what God’s kind of love is? Book, chapter, and verse please?

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 5:05 am #

            It is pointless using the Word of God to convince you of your error as you have totally sold out to your doctrines of demons. The Truth of the Word of God is spiritually discerned and as such the ability to be born again is a gift from God. It is only God who can open your eyes to the Truth of His Word and His Heart for people rather than your political ideologies and carnal commitment to money at all cost.

          • Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 7:06 am #

            Religious Psychics & The Charismatic New Wave by Joseph Chambers, 1999
            “In many congregations Biblical truth has been treated lightly while social and emotional matters have demanded attention. This closing hour does not allow for such carelessness neither does it allow a light treatment of the “spirit of discernment.” Those who do not have a firm and conscious hold on Biblical values and Biblical truth will not be able to survive.” Part 1 & Part 2.

          • Edwitness December 10, 2016 at 2:26 pm #

            Wayne,
            He was referring to people like you.

  46. Wayne Capell December 10, 2016 at 1:11 am #

    Reread your commitment to extreme right wing elitism.

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