Brodersen splits from CCA; calls for new “Global Network”

screen-shot-2016-11-07-at-8-40-08-amThe Calvary Chapel fracture was bound to happen, and now it appears Costa Mesa senior pastor Brian Brodersen is leading that split, calling for “like-minded” pastors to stand with him.

Over the weekend Brodersen quit his leadership position at the Calvary Chapel Association, and  announced he is establishing a new Calvary Chapel Global Network. This network, he says, will be a place for pastors on his side of the split “be a part of something greater than our own local congregations.”

In a letter dated November 6 to all Calvary Chapel pastors, Brodersen made his intentions clear that he no longer wishes to cooperate with other CC leaders who have raised red flags of concern over Brodersen’s significant departure from CC’s doctrinal distinctives:

To: Calvary Chapel Pastors
From: Brian Brodersen
Date: Sunday, November 6, 2016

Dear Pastor,

Brian Brodersen

Brian Brodersen

The prophet Amos asked the question: “Can two people walk together without agreeing on the direction?” The implied answer is, no, they can’t.

For the past three years and more, a group of men known to you as the CCA Council have sought to lead Calvary Chapel into the future. For some in the group, there has always been the question of whether this was even possible. All of us grew up and learned much of what we know about ministry under the leadership of Pastor Chuck Smith. We were all pastors of our own churches and leaders over our own ministries, and all of us were, and still are, fiercely independent.

Our common bond, apart from our relationship with Jesus, was Pastor Chuck. When the Lord took him home, we all agreed that we would try to work together and collectively lead the ministry of Calvary Chapel. After three years of attempting to do that, we find ourselves, at least from my point of view, at an impasse. We are not agreed on the direction that the ministry is to go. Some want to, in my opinion, dwell in the past. Some want to move ahead into the future, being thankful for our past but not bound to it or feeling a need to continually revisit it.

Doctrinally we are all in agreement with a few minor differences on a few secondary issues. No one has, in any way, deviated from historic biblical doctrine, or from what might be called Calvary’s core values or from what we know as the Calvary Distinctives. Our areas of disagreement are NOT theological or doctrinal; they are more methodological and practical, yet they are real disagreements. These disagreements have not only hindered us from moving forward in the work of the kingdom of Christ, they have created confusion, contention, and some division within the body of Christ.

It is for these reasons that I have decided to resign my position as a member of the CCA Council. I do believe that this is the best way forward for us all. I maintain a love and close friendship with many of the CCA Council members and trust that we will continue, in many ways, to co-labor together for the kingdom. To some degree, this comes down to a difference of vision. The goal is the same—the glory of Christ and the furtherance of His kingdom on earth. But we differ on how we accomplish that goal.

So although I have resigned from CCA, I will continue to lead, as I believe the Lord has called me to do. I will continue to pastor Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, and will also put on our annual Pastors and Leaders Conference, as well as other conferences both at home and abroad throughout the year. We will also continue to provide content and ministry resources through CalvaryChapel.com, as well as keeping our church locator database up for those who share our vision and want to be connected with what the Lord has done and continues to do through CCCM.

Finally, in the days ahead, because we feel a strong call to continue church planting and helping both existing ministries and those that will come along in the future, we will be establishing the Calvary Chapel Global Network, which will be a place for like-minded pastors to enjoy fellowship and be a part of something greater than our own local congregations.

Having said all that, let me make this perfectly clear: this is NOT a call to “choose sides”. There are no sides. I fully expect that there will be freedom to connect with CCCM, Calvary Chapel Global Network, and at the same time, be a part of CCA. For my part, I look forward to both the freedom that this decision brings as well as the ongoing fellowship and ministry partnership with many of the CCA Council members and many of the churches that are part of the Calvary Chapel Association.

I do believe that our best days are ahead of us, and I pray God will grant us mercy and pour His Spirit upon us as we labor for Him, awaiting that blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Let me close with these words from Pastor Chuck:

“Calvary Chapel started as a movement that was truly a fresh work, outside the scope of most other churches that were around at the time. God wanted to do a fresh work, so He created a new skin to pour His Spirit into, and we got to see His blessings. But if the Lord tarries, and He takes me home before the rapture, I hope no one tries to institutionalize what God has done at Calvary Chapel. I don’t want anyone going around saying, ‘When Chuck was here,’ and ‘This is the way Chuck did it.’ May God help us not to get rigid. I want to stay flexible and open. I want to see a continual movement of the Spirit of God; so I need to stay supple, flexible, and pliable. If we create a religious system, with rigid controls and traditions, then God will have to once again go outside of us in order to do a new work of His Spirit.”

Sincerely,

Brian Brodersen

Keep in mind that two weeks ago Brodersen insulted Pastor Chuck Smith, his father-in-law and founder of the Calvary Chapel movement:

“You know the last 10 years of pastor Chuck’s life in ministry, um, probably almost every sermon on a Sunday was seriously a doom and a gloom message and it was basically the world’s going to hell but the Lord’s coming so just you know buckle your seat belt, hold on and we’re all gonna be out of here. And so once a month I would preach and I would literally get up and try to counter what was happening for the other 3 weeks…”

(Read more in, Calvary Chapel’s Brian Brodersen instructs pastors to “Tone it down” for youth.)

The questions that remain: Who will stand with Brodersen in this split? And whom will Brodersen team up with outside of Calvary Pastor in this unified Global Network?

For more on the backstory of what is happening in the CC split, check out Roger Oakland’s new piece: “The Calvary Chapel Movement and the Sinking of the Titanic“, and also Mark Jefferies’ article and video, “Calvary Chapel’s Brian Brodersen: His Influence and control”.

See Also:

Pattern of concern:


© Amy Spreeman for Berean Research, 2016

 

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318 Responses to Brodersen splits from CCA; calls for new “Global Network”

  1. Dale November 7, 2016 at 10:30 am #

    You will find out in only one way the people will leave and won’t come no matter what you do or say. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord Jesus Christ!!!

    • Jerod November 7, 2016 at 10:49 am #

      This whole thing makes me think of Joshua 5. They are so upset at the percieved insult to Chucks legacy, (which is literally buried with him, as Ecclesiastes tells us), they cannot see that it is God who has been slighted on both sides. We could use a Joshua, whose attitude is thus:

      Joshua 5:13

      Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us or for our adversaries?” 14He said, “No; rather I indeed come now as captain of the host of the LORD.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, “What has my lord to say to his servant?”

      Joshua sought after God then and there. He didn’t wait a year. This CC split puts more of an imminent meaning to the parable of the ten virgins.

      • Betty Robles Hoover November 10, 2016 at 12:32 am #

        Amen! No one can replace Pastor Chuck Smith’s heart!

        • Jerod November 10, 2016 at 11:42 am #

          Oh, but, Betty! He can! God took Chuck because God was finished with Chuck. Does God ever take a servant without replacing him with someone he has called to greater (or more) ministry? Or even, in the case of our Lord, leaving but sending us His Holy Spirit, making his servants greater in number and, according to Him, greater (more numerous, not more important) works of faith? I am trying to think of a time when God didn’t. Or at least without foretelling it hundreds of years in advance (Israel’s captivity, the period between the testaments). The next servant always does greater things than the former.

          But, true to form, Satan will always counterfeit right before God’s plan, seducing many away. BB has taken the bait. This seems to be a pruning process. Heresies are necessary. If God’s Word is to be heard, it will.be his entire word, revealed to babes, confounding the wise. God is just so inscrutable.

    • Linda Covert February 13, 2017 at 3:58 pm #

      Read Jude PEOPLE! Be Born Again! I do NOT play church. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life!

  2. Jerod November 7, 2016 at 10:31 am #

    The issue is not Chuck, not Calvary Chapel Distinctives. The issue is Brodersen’s departure from sound doctrine. It had been apparent for some time. He says outright he is ecumenical. He stated he doesn’t see the need to preach through all books of the bible. He implies, if not outright stated, they don’t need the Old Testament, as if the Apostles and Christ himself taught us about the New Covenant in His blood from something else. We realize Jesus taught topically, yet he taught through all of it, to Paul and the two men on the road after his resurrection (Luke 24:28). Brodersen et al conveniently forget what the Holy Spirit said to David in
    Psalm 138:2b

    …you have exalted above all things your name and your word.

    • Amy Spreeman November 7, 2016 at 10:34 am #

      Agreed.

    • Al Angelone November 7, 2016 at 1:38 pm #

      Exactly. Finally the sound of silence is no longer deafening.

    • Bob November 9, 2016 at 6:19 am #

      I think you misquoted the source. Brodersen said he didn’t think going through the OT was necessary on a Sunday morning service.

      • Jerod November 10, 2016 at 1:57 am #

        Quote: “I think you can preach the whole counsel of God without teaching all 66 books of the Bible… Don’t you think that New Testament is the whole counsel of God?” (this was in reference to his advice to tone down the prophecy, that line by line through the old testament was “brutal”). Maybe go back and listen again? Because, Bob, frankly, no, you cannot teach the whole counsel of God without all 66 books. that’s not what Paul did, he wasn’t teaching from his own letters. Nor is that what Jesus did in Luke with the two men after his resurrection. For instance, if I were an Apostle trying to teach the people not to worship the true God in the wrong way, what better book than Numbers?

        • Jerod November 10, 2016 at 2:12 am #

          Bob, this is what parsing the bible upon preferences gives the sheep

          “For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.” Hebrews 5:12

          Wouldn’t ignoring the contextual understanding of OT scriptures which the NT reveals in fact be fashioning for ourselves another Jesus? BB says it is a “stretch” to apply the Levitical laws to Jesus, but He says himself in Luke 24:44

          “Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

          Those were Jews reading Jewish scriptures about their Jewish messiah. How much more do we need the “sense” given to us goyim?

          Nehemiah 8:8

          They read from the book, from the law of God, translating to give the sense so that they understood the reading.

        • mark November 13, 2016 at 11:08 am #

          Pansy Pastor

          My Judgments shall begin first in the House of God! (1 Peter 4:17 ; 2 Timothy 4:1-8 ; 2 Peter 3:17-18 ; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18!!!)
          Isaiah 56:10
          His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.

          Acts 16:16 | And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

          Many pastors in America fall into this category of a soothsayer or a dog that wont bark.
          You go to church to get God, but you get man instead. You go to a church that doesn’t teach you how to live life, but instead a fantasy. A pastor that will not warn his flock of impending danger and then prepare them is not a pastor at all. He is a soothsayer. He is a dog that won’t bark.
          Financial seminars, retreats, marriage seminars and gatherings of every kind but no preparation for real life and no teaching of the Word of God.
          Santa, the Ishtar bunny, trunk or treat, grandma got ran over by a reindeer, little green elves and on and on.
          The world is literally falling apart around the mainstream church and all they can do is have one more night of christian entertainment and sing cumby-ya.

          The so called church has stood by and lost our country to a bunch of perverts and no goods and said nothing and done nothing to stand in the way.

          5013c has decapitated the church to a point of irrelevance and most pastors are afraid to say anything for fear of loosing their tax exempt status. All they can do is say Jesus loves you and everything will all be alright.
          The church is worthless if it doesn’t stand up to the evils of society and the outright tyranny in our government. The church is in abject failure because they are not preparing the people for real life; instead they are teaching a bunch of irrelevant hot air and nonsense.
          Words designed to fill up space and take up time and your money and not to teach you LIFE according to the real “CHRISTIAN WAY” and the BIBLE.

          They are leading you right to the slaughter and by the time you realize what has happened, it will be too late. Everything is not alright in the world and America.

          Is your pastor preparing you for what is to come?

          MV 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Jerod November 13, 2016 at 3:59 pm #

            Mark, I can definitely say yes! Went to church, and God let the pitbull warn the false teachers. Answer to prayer.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:19 pm #

            A kindred spirit you are brother Jerod.
            I like to pick on bullies and beat them up. I don’t like false teachers and those who claim to be teachers.
            Every time I turn on Pastors perspective these guys give me the willies with their bad advise.
            I have also attended many calvary churces in person with parts of my book for them.
            i have planted many seeds within the organization that they don’t even know about

            They like many false churches are going to come down by the hand of God in the coming months…..

          • Kim November 30, 2016 at 7:54 pm #

            WOW!!

            Mark, what a great job in expressing what I am talking about all the time, to different people. They all, mostly think I am nuts…but you nailed it on the head!!

            Thanks…

          • mark December 1, 2016 at 8:35 am #

            TY Kim
            I have been to every church in my area and passing my research out to all. I have never made a scene but the cops are called on me and sometimes they are waiting on me in the parking lot of the church. Darkness does not like being exposed. This whole rapture thing started with a sick 15 year old girl Margret MacDonald and the Darby took it a ran with it. It is a fairy tale.

            Here is one you can use yourself Kim, its called

            Jacobs Trouble

            Jeremiah 30;
            7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

            >The time of Jacobs Trouble is described in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and Revelation 2:10.
            >Luke 12 verses10, 11 and 12 will put this whole end time scenario into perspective.
            10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
            11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
            12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same HOUR what ye ought to say.
            >>> There is not any implication of rapture, or a “great escape” in the verse above before the wrath of God is poured out. The wrath of God will only be poured out on the wicked. God does not need to rapture everyone from the earth to accomplish His will on the earth. He can melt the elements with a fervent heat right beside you and no harm will come to you. Just as Shadrach Meshach and Abednego.

            >Fire will have no effect on the spirit body when we are changed in the moment in the twinkling of an eye. The time of Jacobs’s trouble is before our gathering back to Christ and not after.
            >The words “saved out of” can in no way be rendered; “raptured out of”. The words “saved out of” are used several times in Jeremiah chapter 30 but there is no way to inject the subject of rapture into these verses. There is no article for a rapture and the verses leading up to and away from chapter 30 indicate just the opposite is true.

            >Below are verses 5 and 6 leading up to verse 7 that gives a graphic description of a man that is so confused and fearful about the end times that he can not tell the difference between the bride and the Groom in the great wedding. He is actually examining himself to see if he is pregnant. He can not tell the difference between a spiritual child and a real child because he has not studied Gods Word with understanding. He is in a state of confusion or “Babylon”.
            This man can not tell the difference between the real Christ and the imposter christ.

            >I believe this man is also symbolic for those of the end times who are with “spiritual child” and giving suck to the works of satan. They are part of the great whore that sits upon the waters of the end times. The waters are symbolic for people and the whore is the false church. They are part of the false church that spreads the rapture doctrine around.
            The birth of a new age is also being described in these verses and not a physical pregnancy. The birth pangs are getting closer and closer together.
            Jeremiah 30:
            5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
            6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
            >Jeremiah chapter 24 speaks of the parable of the fig tree that Jesus referred to in Matthew 24. From Jeremiah chapter 24 forward is a chronological map of the end times that coincides with Matthew 24, Mark13, Luke 21 and Revelation 2.

            >The time of Jacob’s trouble is a description of the events that are yet in the future. This is the time of the tribulation of the anti-christ when Christians will delivered up to death which is one of names of satan. This is already happening in many parts of the world and will come to America as well. The church in America is in denial and lives in a dream world. The locust armies that are controlled by satan are accomplishing his will even before he is cast to the earth in person. Persecution is coming to America!!!
            The book of Jeremiah was written to the tribe of Judah but also to Jacob the natural “seed” meaning all of the twelve tribes. This also applies to “all” believers on earth.

            >Pre tribulation rapture believers claim that Mark 13 Luke 21 and Matthew 24 have already happened to back up the false narrative of the pre-trib rapture doctrine.
            Their claims that the temple was completely destroyed by the tin horn Roman general Titus in 70ad are in complete error.
            >First of all, just take a look at the stones that are still standing atop another that were built before 70ad in Jerusalem. There are many still stacked on top of one another so this theory is totally false.
            >Second, in their interpretation of these scriptures they forget about the words “all the world” as they are used in this verse. Especially the word “WORLD” as it is used here.
            The entire world was not destroyed when the little tin horn Titus marched through Jerusalem.
            >He had never even entered the rest of the world, let alone conquers it. How do you conquer a world you have never seen? This is utter nonsense.
            Mark13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
            2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
            >The claims that there are no stones left atop one another are preposterous. Just look for yourself in Jerusalem today. There are many stones stacked atop one another that have been there in Jerusalem long before 70ad.
            These events of Mathew, Mark, Luke and Revelation are yet future to us.
            The word “world” has nothing to do with “dirt”.

            The word “World” in Matthew 24:3:
            And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the WORLD? >>>This is not speaking of Titus!!!

            The Strong’s concordance Greek word for world is # 5550 and it means:

            age, course, eternal, forever From the same as aei; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future) — age, course, eternal, (for) ever(more), (n)ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare chronos. see GREEK aei see GREEK chronos age, course, eternal, forever From the same as aei; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future) — age, course, eternal, (for) ever(more), (n)ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare chronos. see GREEK aei see GREEK chronos

            >No reference to the end of the earth or Terra Firma, just this earth age.
            Have you seen the end of this age yet? I haven’t, we are still here. These events are yet still in the future and are about to come to pass.

            Here is another reference to the word WORLD in the Strong’s concordance:
            Strong’s Concordance # 165
            aión: a space of time, an age
            Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
            Transliteration: aión
            Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn’)
            Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
            Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

            >The events described in Jeremiah chapter 30 are in no way speaking of a “great escape” but rather a “going through” with the help of almighty God. The events in Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Revelation 2 are speaking of being “delivered up” and not flying away in rapture as these modern day false teachers claim.

            >Revelation chapter 2 speaks of Jacobs’s trouble and it has nothing to do with flying away.

            10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

            >Does the above verse sound like a rapture? The words “Delivered up” do not mean “flying away”.
            >Here is what Jesus says about being “delivered up” below;
            Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
            10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
            9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
            >More about being delivered up from the book of Mark;
            Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
            11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
            >Does this sound like a rapture? No, it is just the opposite. This is when we as Christians get to be a testimony for the Lord Jesus Christ in front of the whole earth. Our destiny is to stand against the anti-christ and not to fly away like a coward.
            >These are they below;
            4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
            >These above did not worship the anti-christ as christ.
            5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
            12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
            Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
            Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
            10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
            >These above are all examples and types of the time of Jacobs’s trouble.
            >Do you have a testimony? Or are you just moany?
            >This is the Destiny of the true saints of God below>>HOUR of Temptation.
            >The above verse is speaking about the Holy Spirit speaking through you when you are delivered up before the anti-christ in the Hour of Temptation. The pre-trib rapture believers falsely claim that the Holy Spirit will be gone from the earth at this time. How can this verse be accomplished if the Holy Spirit is gone? This is another claim of pre-trib rapture believers that is preposterous. The Holy Spirit is ubiquitous; we are the ones who withdraw from Him.
            >This goes to show how far the false teachers of today will go to prove a false narrative by adding and subtracting from the Word of God at their whim. The rapture is the great deception of the end times. Are you deceived?
            Will you be as confused as the man in verse 6 who is actually checking to see if he is pregnant?
            Jeremiah30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
            24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.
            The great wedding is about to take place. Which bride will you take to wife?

            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

    • Njfillet November 14, 2016 at 1:54 am #

      Amen. I have noticed this for some time. Of all the cc pastors, brodersen is one that raised red flags for some reason. Now I know.

      • mark November 14, 2016 at 10:48 am #

        Broderson is a clone of Chuck.
        How can this not be relevant?
        A departure from the doctrine of Chuck is an entrance into the truth.
        He is the father of calvary
        Is Broberson going towards the truth or is he going further away from the truth is the question.
        You have to know the truth in order to answer this question.
        Who among you know the truth?

  3. Jerod November 7, 2016 at 10:33 am #

    …to Paul and the two men…

    Obviously not at the same time ;-D

  4. Manny1962 November 7, 2016 at 10:47 am #

    ““You know the last 10 years of pastor Chuck’s life in ministry, um, probably almost every sermon on a Sunday was seriously a doom and a gloom message and it was basically the world’s going to hell but the Lord’s coming so just you know buckle your seat belt, hold on and we’re all gonna be out of here. And so once a month I would preach and I would literally get up and try to counter what was happening for the other 3 weeks…”

    Pretty simple really, Smith began to see what scripture has been warning about for centuries, coming to fruition. He preached correctly that this world and this country are headed to perdition. We as Christians don’t fear this, we await our Lord from heaven while doing what we were commanded to do: proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ, warn, exhort, and remind fellow brothers and sisters the lateness of the hour! All biblical mandates. Now, Brodersen went and tried to undo the “damage” pastor Chuck was espousing! Anyone see the error?! By the way, I’m not a CC person, but I can say Mr. Brodersen seem to have an ecumenical bent, very much an NAR characteristic. They jettisoned all the apocalyptic judgements, timelines and outcomes written in scripture for their own twisted ecumenical nonsense, Mr. Brodersen, man cannot change what God has written, the NAR movement will not usher in the kingdom and ecumenism is not in the bible as something we must persue, it comes up as a heresy that will be judged and destroyed, it is a false religious system that will culminate in antichrist worship.

    • Jerod November 7, 2016 at 10:57 am #

      Right on. May God give us the strength to go out to the highways and byways. May the body of our church become ever more poor in body, and rich in His Spirit.

      Micah 4:7

    • Carri February 17, 2017 at 2:45 am #

      You guys are crazy! Taking quotes from Brian and coming to wrong conclusions BIG TIME. If Brian didn’t think teaching the Old Testament was important, then WHY is he currently teaching through the Old Testament at CCCM right now?!! You have wrongly JUDGED him! And when he talks about being ecumenical, he means it in the good and balanced sense. Calvary Chapels have always been sectarian and exclusive. They shunned other churches and denominations. All Brian is wanting to do is to start to be inclusive with the rest of the body of Christ because Calvary Chapel does NOT hold a monopoly on truth! Yes, God is bigger than Calvary Chapel! But this doesn’t mean he will join hands with false teachers! If you actually listen to him you would know this. He is NOT a part of NAR. He recently spoke out against Bethel in Redding and their NAR practices on Pastor’s Perspective. He might associate with some we know are not Biblically sound, but that doesn’t mean he agrees with them. We are too quick to equate association with guilt.

      • Kim February 17, 2017 at 11:25 am #

        Carri, you are being DECEIVED!!! Do some research, as much as you think Brian is right, do some research, or you my friend will be going down the wrong road. I have found that many, I mean many TV Pastors and teachers that I really liked, have taken the Apostate road. I have grieved and even cried over a couple of them. All I do now is pray for them. I have made it my journey to not be deceived and to tell others what I have learned. Many look at me as if I have a 3rd eye, and that is ok. In the end, I don’t want people saying to me “why didn’t you tell me what you knew?” Do research.Do research. You can mad at me all you want, I just say do the research!!

        • Carri February 17, 2017 at 2:39 pm #

          Kim said “Carri, you are being DECEIVED!!! Do some research, as much as you think Brian is right, do some research, or you my friend will be going down the wrong road.”

          Kim, you still aren’t giving me the evidence of your research. I appreciate that you research things but since you are the expert, give me the evidence that Brian is so terrible. All I’ve heard is exaggerated emotion and over sweeping conclusions.

      • Robert Trohon February 17, 2017 at 2:57 pm #

        Just recently, Brian Brodersen has allowed Rick Warren to be programmed on KLOVE.

        Opinions?

        • Manny1962 February 17, 2017 at 3:04 pm #

          Yes….. You will know them by their fruit. Uber apostate Rick Warren, Mr.Chrislam and ecumenist bar none! Why don’t Broderson’s supporters ask him?

          • Kim February 17, 2017 at 7:15 pm #

            Manny, 2 thumbs up…you are so right about Rick Warren. I just wish everyone knew and understood that he could be the nicest guy in the world, but if he is doing this in Jesus name and he is Ecumenical and mystic apostate it doesn’t matter how nice he is. He is leading people astray and it is wrong!

          • Manny1962 February 17, 2017 at 10:22 pm #

            Hello Kim,

            Anyone that gives Rick Warren a platform to spread his poison is suspect, there were other options that could’ve been used, other pastors or even music.

          • Carri February 18, 2017 at 3:01 am #

            I am not thrilled about Rick Warren. But not necessarily by what he teaches but by what I heard he does. He is orthodox on paper (He’s Southern Baptist) but it’s the things he says and does outside of his sermons that are a concern. I never really heard Warren teach before until a few years ago when he was aired by one of our local radio stations. I listened to him to see what the big kerfuffle was all about. I didn’t hear anything off doctrinally. I actually was surprised that he did talk about sin and repentance and other things I had heard he would not say. So some things about him are not true. But then I hear other things that are very alarming. Maybe Brian thinks his regular sermons for his church are sound as I did. But to be honest, I don’t know the real facts about Warren for myself. Just heard a lot of hear say from others. But to jump to the conclusion that Brian is apostate is ridiculous.

          • Robert Trohon February 18, 2017 at 12:02 pm #

            I agree Carri…that to say Brian Brodersen is apostate is ridiculous…(at this point) BUT many of us (pastors in Calvary Chapel) are in a wait-and-see mode, which is prudent.

            We should never be too quick to judge another brother, especially without solid evidence. Only God knows the true heart and its motives.

            Blessings,
            Pastor Robert Trohon
            La Via – The Way (Calvary Chapel)
            Managua, Nicaragua

          • Manny1962 February 18, 2017 at 9:26 am #

            Good morning Carri, as you said, “I don’t know the real facts about Warren for myself.”

            I really suggest you do research on Warren if you want to understand the kind of duplicitous wolf he is. I do know the facts because I’ve been tracking his career for a while. Besides the grossest error that seeker friendly is aand the heretical Purpose Driven Life is, he supports gay marriage after first saying it was wrong, he supports Rome and believes Rome is the way. He mixes mysticism with Christianity……… I can go on and on, there’s just too much info out there. Why Brodersen gave Warren a platform is incredulous!

          • Carri February 18, 2017 at 5:00 pm #

            Manny1962,

            Can you show me the evidence where Warren supports gay marriage? I can’t find it anywhere. Here he is saying he does NOT support gay marriage and thinks the ACT of homosexuality is a sin. Also, during the voting of proposition 8 when Californians were voting to ban gay marriage, Warren’s church was being protested by gay marriage advocates because of Warren’s stand against gay marriage. I live across the street from his church, so I saw it personally.
            Maybe you are confusing his involvement with curing AIDS with approval?

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAVHeRKQUAo

          • mark February 18, 2017 at 7:15 pm #

            To all on this blog. I don’t mince words and i never will. Anybody who coddles Islam is an enemy to Christianity. There is so much ignorance within the Church it is sad.
            The Hideous nature of Islam revealed in the
            The Bible by the prophets in;
            Revelation 9:5, Joel 2, Nahum 3 and Ezekiel 23

            The LOCUST ARMY (islam) spoken of by the prophets in the Bible is the largest army in history that is organized but not assembled together. My estimation is about two hundred million men, women and children make up this LOCUST ARMY of radical Islamic terrorists comprised of about one point eight billion muslims total in the world. Never before has mankind had to face the LOCUST ARMY (islam) in all of his history on a scale of this magnitude. This army is now in almost every country in the world except for the smart ones and they are making their final plans for the great jihad against all of the earth. Most of the world is so blind to what is happening but the Bible is very clear as to who these people are. They are described in great detail by using the Locust as an example of the way they operate. They display all of the characteristics of the Locust in every way. They operate their armies in the same way as the locust. The Bible describes what they are wearing during these attacks and training and even in their daily lives. The uniforms in the ranks of the military are even described to a tee. The life cycle of the locust is about 17 years and I believe this current life cycle of the end times LOCUST ARMY (islam) is about over. There are four stages in the development of a Locust before adulthood. We are in the second stage right now as I write which is the SWARMER stage. Look around the world and what do you see? Swarming refugees everywhere disguised as refugees but they are really soldiers. Its like a movie being played out but it is real people!!! The next stage of the Locust ARMY is the Devourer Stage and this is one of the names of satan himself. I believe when the LOCUST ARMY enter into the devourer stage is the time right before the entrance of the anti-christ (satan in person). He will arrive on the earth in peace and prosperity and not war as many think and he will heal the deadly wound that was inflicted upon the beast system by the LOCUST ARMY and the Kenites. Yes ladies and gents…our system is a beast system and has become Babylon (Confusion) The whole world is confused and delusional. The refugees you see on TV and all over the world “are” the SWARMERS and are part of the LOCUST ARMY… they are not refugees. Almost all of them are part of the LOCUST ARMY, including men, women and children, young and old and anyone else that will join that can breath.
            The Bible mentions four super natural kings that will be loosed at the river Euphrates in the end times and I believe that they have been “loosed” already. They are the ones who have mastered this “refugee” program that is nothing more than an invasion force to conquer the world and bring in the twelfth imam which is the anti-christ. Here are the verses that speak of these evil angels that are were bound and loosed at Euphrates.

            Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
            15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
            Revelation 16:12
            And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

            >Might be prepared for battle. Their goal is to conquer Israel in war. The “land of Israel” and the HOUSE of ISRAEL which is much of the so called western world including the USA. >

            >The river Euphrates is drying up at this very moment in time because of severe drought.
            The kings of the east are the kings of the Middle East and arise from one of these; Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt etc.

            >Below are verses in the Bible that reveal the very nature of the LOCUST ARMY in great detail. Joel gives the four stages of the LOCUST which will reveal the four different stages in the development of the Islamic armies.

            1. Joel 1:4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the LOCUST eaten; and that which the LOCUST hath left hath the CANKERWORM eaten; and that which the CANKERWORM hath left hath the CATERPILLAR eaten.
            2. Joel 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the LOCUST hath eaten, the CANKERWORM, and the CATERPILLAR, and the PALMERWORM,

            .
            next page

          • mark February 18, 2017 at 7:18 pm #

            >This is God speaking here to His children saying that He will restore all of the destruction and mayhem that the LOCUST ARMIES have caused all over the world.
            Joel mentions all four stages of this ARMY and God Himself calls it an Army by using the words “MY GREAT ARMY WHICH I SENT AMONG YOU”. Just look at the words …”AMONG YOU”…NORMAL ARMIES ARE NOT “AMONG YOU”, THEY ARE IN FRONT OF YOU OR BEHIND YOU, BUT NOT; “AMONG YOU”. I BELIEVE THIS IS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE CURRENT STEALTH ARMY THAT IS “AMONG US” ALL OVER THE WORLD RIGHT NOW!!!
            MAKE NO MISTAKE; THIS IS THE ARMY OF GOD USED BY HIM TO CHASTIZE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL TIME AND AGAIN FOR THEIR DISSOBEDIANCE.

            The “Gnawers” have already been born and the swarmers (above) are hard at work “swarming” all over the world. Look for the “Devourer” in the next fulfillment of the third stage of the “locust army.” Satan is called the “devourer” in Malachi 3:11. Could this mean that satan appears at the third stage of the “locust armies” development? ….We will soon find out,.
            Ezekiel 23:15 Girded with GIRDELS upon their loins, exceeding in DYED ATTIRE upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity.
            >Is there any doubt in your mind who these verses are describing? This a perfect description of what most muslims wear. Any doubt as to where the land of Chaldea is?

            Ezekiel 23:42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful CROWNS upon their heads.
            >A Sabean –is a Drunkard. This is the same “crown” or turbine that almost all of the muslims wear. This word Crown appears over and over again in Gods word.

            Revelation 9:5 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men FIVE MONTHS.
            Revelation 9:10 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man
            >Five months is the length of the season of the LOCUST which is May through September. This will most likely be the time that the anti-christ will appear on earth.

            Rev 11
            2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
            >The Dome of the Rock has been trodden under foot and is still in control of the gentiles (muslims) so essentially some of Jerusalem is still in the control of the gentiles and it just happens to be the Dome of the Rock.
            Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke LOCUSTS upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
            7 And the shapes of the LOCUSTS were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were CROWNS like gold, and their faces were as the faces of MEN
            >There can be no doubt that these above are not bugs, but they are men likened unto LOCUSTS and this is a description of who the locust army is. They are men and they are not bugs or some freaky creatures that people have dreamed up in their minds. They act like locusts but they are not locusts. If we know how locusts act then we should know the Islamic hoards will act before they act if we use the Bible as our battle plan.
            8 And they had HAIR as the HAIR of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
            > Another interesting note: The horses “tail” or “hair” is a symbol for ranking in these militant sects of the Wahabi, branch of the Sunni Islam, they include Bin laden,Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, Ayan Al-Zawahri to name a few of these Arab Cleric’s.Three horses tails and your at the top.
            9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
            >Sounds like the sound of a huge army that is coming to kill steal and destroy all on the earth at the end of days. Many could be killed as much as one third of the world’s population could be wiped out in this epic battle.
            >Nahum gives a revealing description of the way this LOCUST ARMY operates so just read below like it was tomorrow’s newspaper and then look at what is happening in the world today and you have a perfect description of a terrorist attack that is happening all over the world 2016.
            Nahum 3
            17 Thy CROWNED are as the LOCUSTS, and thy captains as the great grasshoppers, which camp in the hedges in the cold day, but when the sun ariseth they flee away, and their place is not known where they are.
            >They come out of nowhere and they attack and then they retreat and repeat. They are scattered among the nations and no man can gather them. They live in the dust (desert) and after they attack they disappear and can not be found. Their army can not be identified in the normal sense, so there you have THE LOCUST ARMY
            Nahum 3:
            15 There shall the fire devour thee; the sword shall cut thee off, it shall eat thee up like the cankerworm: make thyself many as the cankerworm, make thyself many as the LOCUSTS.
            next page

          • mark February 18, 2017 at 7:19 pm #

            16 Thou hast multiplied thy merchants above the stars of heaven: the CANKERWORM spoileth, and fleeth away.
            > The above is a perfect description of the way they attack and then flee away like the cowards they really are.
            Revelation 9:
            3 And there came out of the SMOKE LOCUSTS upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
            >The word smoke is symbolic for lies. The religion of islam will lie at any cost to the infidel as they say. They will lie through there teeth to accomplish their goals and that is what you see today when they speak. They are liars in the name of alla .There is no truth in them; only lies lies lies. The very word “Arab” means; to lie in wait, ie ambush as in below;
            ARAB> Strong’s Concordance# 694 in Hebrew
            : to lie in wait
            Original Word: אָרַב
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: arab
            Phonetic Spelling: (aw-rab’)
            Short Definition: ambush lie in ambush, lay lie in wait A primitive root; to lurk — (lie in) ambush(-ment), lay (lie in) wait.
            ARBE: (a kind of) locust Strong’s#697 in Hebrew
            Original Word: אַרְבֶּה
            Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
            Transliteration: arbeh
            Phonetic Spelling: (ar-beh’)
            Short Definition: grasshopper, locust From rabah; a locust (from its rapid increase) — grasshopper, locust.
            ORBAH Strong’s Concordance# 698 in Hebrew
            : an artifice
            Original Word: אָרְבוֹת
            Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
            Transliteration: orbah
            Phonetic Spelling: (or-ob-aw’)
            Short Definition: trickery Word Origin from arab
            an artifice
            trickery (1).
            The word CROWN as it is used in Revelation 9:7;
            Strong’s #4735 in Greek Στέφανος stephanos {stef’-an-os
            From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown. OR A TURBINE
            Revelation 9:7 And the shapes of the LOCUSTS were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were CROWNS like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
            Revelation 6:
            2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a CROWN was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
            >The four stages of the LOCUST below;
            To both the “house of Israel” and the “house of Judah”:
            25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
            Four stages of the “Locust”, in the Hebrew says:

            Gnawer’s remnant

            Swarmer eats

            Swarmer’s remnant

            Devourer eats

            Devourers remnant

            Consumer eats

            1. Gnawer, pupa stage, the Palmerworm Gazam H1501 gâzâm gaw-zawm’ From an unused root meaning to devour; a kind of locust: – palmer-worm.

            2. Swarmer , imbro stage, the Locust Arbeh H697 ‘arbeh ar-beh’ From H7235; a locust (from its rapid increase): – grasshopper, locust.

            3. devourer, Cankerworm Yelek H3218 yeleq yeh’-lek From an unused root meaning to lick up; a devourer; specifically the young locust: – cankerworm, caterpillar.

            4. Consumer, Caterpillar Hasil H2625 châsı̂yl khaw-seel’ From H2628; the ravager, that is, a locust: – caterpillar. H2628 châsal khaw-sal’ A primitive root; to eat off: – consume.

            One other very important word in this “revealing” who the Locust Army is-is this word “Crown” in Rev.9:

            7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were CROWNS like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

            Strong’s #4735 Στέφανος stephanos {stef’-an-os
            From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown.
            SATAN WILL BE WEARING THE SAME CROWN THAT THE LOCUST ARMY IS WEARING AT THEIR APPEARANCE. HE IS THEIR 12th IMAM.
            18 Thy shepherds slumber, O king of Assyria: thy nobles shall dwell in the dust: thy people is scattered upon the mountains, and no man gathereth them.
            Their king is Abaddon in the Hebrew and Apollyon in the Greek. Satan is his name.
            They are here and more and more are coming all over the world and the world is being set up right now for this great and epic battle.
            >>>barrack husien obama is one of the top generals in the LOCUST ARMY if he knows it or not. How sad is that. The American people elected the enemy for their president. Americans are so deceived and naïve and just plain lazy that they will be easy prey for the terrorists when they come for them on our soil. They won’t believe it until they themselves are actually taken hostage by the enemy before they wake up.
            The Bible predicted this would happen thousands of years ago and the Locust have been used by GOD as a tool of His Divine Judgment and chastisement throughout history.
            This essay is basically the battle plan of the enemy that I have laid out and I believe if the American people will repent and turn from their wicked ways that the Lord will hear our prayers and protect us from this massive army and heal our land. If not, America is in deep trouble and the LOCUST ARMY is going to an all out attack mode on western civilization and Christianity is their main target. They absolutely hate Christians and America and all she stands for in the world.
            They are poised for their next attack …be ready. Be vigilant. Repent all day long if necessary. America is in grave danger!!!!!!!!!!
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Carri February 19, 2017 at 12:01 am #

            Someone NEEDS to block this Mark (Remnantseed) guy. No one wants to read his long diatribe.

          • mark February 19, 2017 at 11:23 am #

            You are so typical of the people I run into in my travels. Diatribe is term used most often when you dont agree with someone. The Bible happens to be one long diatribe. To be an apologist is to be engaged in diatribe as you call it. I couldn’t help but to respond to the pure trash that has come out of all of your mouths. You are all engaged in pure speculation plain and simple. Calvary was doomed from the start with just plain bad doctrine. Now they have become leaders in the current church allegory that has become nothing more than a christian country club. Every-time I walk out of one of these houses of nothingness I feel as if i have been mentally assaulted. Hot air, flufff and nothing but a cotton candy gospel filled with half truths is what Calvary is all about.
            None of your members ever make it out of their spiritual diapers.They are easy prey for the deception that lies ahead and the leaders of Calvary are teaching their congregations that they are going to be gone in rapture before everything hits the fan. Even in light of all of the persecution of Christians around the entire world calvary still holds to a pre-tribulation rapture. The great tribulation has already started people, its time to get off the rapture boat and face reality. We are going through the great tribulation and the sooner you acknowledge this fact the sooner you will repair the damage you and others who teach a pre-tribulation rapture have done to the body of Christ.

          • mark February 18, 2017 at 7:26 pm #

            This essay in complete contradiction of Margret MacDonald, John Darby, Chuck Smith, Tommy Ice, Don Stewart and the list goes on and on of the false teachers of our times. The per-tribulation rapture is a pure fabrication of scripture and has alread been proven to be false……
            Jacobs Trouble

            Jeremiah 30;
            7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

            >The time of Jacobs Trouble is described in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 and Revelation 2:10 also.

            >>> There is not any implication of rapture, or a “great escape” in the verse above before the wrath of God is poured out. The wrath of God will only be poured out on the wicked. God does not need to rapture everyone from the earth to accomplish His will on the earth. He can melt the elements with a fervent heat right beside you and no harm will come to you. Just as Shadrach Meshach and Abednego.

            >Fire will have no effect on the spirit body when we are changed in the moment in the twinkling of an eye. The time of Jacobs’s trouble is before our gathering back to Christ and not after.
            >The words “saved out of” can in no way be rendered; “raptured out of”. The words “saved out of” are used several times in Jeremiah chapter 30 but there is no way to inject the subject of rapture into these verses. There is no article for a rapture and the verses leading up to and away from chapter 30 indicate just the opposite is true.

            >Below are verses 5 and 6 leading up to verse 7 that gives a graphic description of a man that is so confused and fearful about the end times that he can not tell the difference between the bride and the Groom in the great wedding. He is actually examining himself to see if he is pregnant. He can not tell the difference between a spiritual child and a real child because he has not studied Gods Word with understanding. He is in a state of confusion or “Babylon”.
            This man can not tell the difference between the real Christ and the imposter christ.

            >I believe this man is also symbolic for those of the end times who are with “spiritual child” and giving suck to the works of satan. They are part of the great whore that sits upon the waters of the end times. The waters are symbolic for people and the whore is the false church. They are part of the false church that spreads the rapture doctrine around.
            The birth of a new age is also being described in these verses and not a physical pregnancy. The birth pangs are getting closer and closer together.

            >Jeremiah chapter 24 speaks of the parable of the fig tree that Jesus referred to in Matthew 24. From Jeremiah chapter 24 forward is a chronological map of the end times that coincides with Matthew 24, Mark13, Luke 21 and Revelation 2.

            Jeremiah 30:
            5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
            6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
            >The time of Jacob’s trouble is a description of the events in Mark 13 Luke 21 and Matthew 24 and Revelation 2 that are yet in the future. This is the time of the tribulation of the anti-christ when Christians will delivered up to death which is one of names of satan. This is already happening in many parts of the world and will come to America as well. The church in America is in denial and lives in a dream world. The locust armies that are controlled by satan are accomplishing his will even before he is cast to the earth in person. Persecution is coming to America!!!
            The book of Jeremiah was written to the tribe of Judah but also to Jacob the natural “seed” meaning all of the twelve tribes. This also applies to “all” believers on earth.

            >Pre tribulation rapture believers claim that Mark 13 Luke 21 and Matthew 24 have already happened to back up the false narrative of the pre-trib rapture doctrine.
            Their claims that the temple was completely destroyed by the tin horn Roman general Titus in 70ad are in complete error.
            >First of all, just take a look at the stones that are still standing atop another that were built before 70ad in Jerusalem. There are many still stacked on top of one another so this theory is totally false.
            >Second, in their interpretation of these scriptures they forget about the words “all the world” as they are used in this verse. Especially the word “WORLD” as it is used here.
            The entire world was not destroyed when the little tin horn Titus marched through Jerusalem.
            >He had never even entered the rest of the world, let alone conquers it. How do you conquer a world you have never seen? This is utter nonsense.
            Mark13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!
            2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
            >The claims that there are no stones left atop one another are preposterous. Just look for yourself in Jerusalem today. There are many stones stacked atop one another that have been there in Jerusalem long before 70ad.
            These events of Mathew, Mark, Luke and Revelation are yet future to us.
            The word “world” has nothing to do with “dirt”.

            The word “World” in Matthew 24:3:
            And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the WORLD? >>>This is not speaking of Titus!!!

            The Strong’s concordance Greek word for world is # 5550 and it means:

            age, course, eternal, forever From the same as aei; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future) — age, course, eternal, (for) ever(more), (n)ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare chronos. see GREEK aei see GREEK chronos age, course, eternal, forever From the same as aei; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future) — age, course, eternal, (for) ever(more), (n)ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare chronos. see GREEK aei see GREEK chronos

            >No reference to the end of the earth or Terra Firma, just this earth age.
            Have you seen the end of this age yet? I haven’t, we are still here. These events are yet still in the future and are about to come to pass.

            Here is another reference to the word WORLD in the Strong’s concordance:
            Strong’s Concordance # 165
            aión: a space of time, an age
            Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
            Transliteration: aión
            Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn’)
            Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
            Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

            >The events described in Jeremiah chapter 30 are in no way speaking of a “great escape” but rather a “going through” with the help of almighty God. The events in Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Revelation 2 are speaking of being “delivered up” and not flying away in rapture as these modern day false teachers claim.

            >Revelation chapter 2 speaks of Jacobs’s trouble and it has nothing to do with flying away.

            10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

            >Does the above verse sound like a rapture? The words “Delivered up” do not mean “flying away”.
            >Here is what Jesus says about being “delivered up” below;
            Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
            10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
            9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
            >More about being delivered up from the book of Mark;
            Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
            11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
            >Does this sound like a rapture? No, it is just the opposite. This is when we as Christians get to be a testimony for the Lord Jesus Christ in front of the whole earth. Our destiny is to stand against the anti-christ and not to fly away like a coward.
            >These are they below;
            4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
            >These above did not worship the anti-christ as christ.
            5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
            12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
            Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
            Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
            10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
            >These above are all examples and types of the time of Jacobs’s trouble.
            >Do you have a testimony? Or are you just moany?
            >This is the Destiny of the true saints of God below>>HOUR of Temptation.
            >The above verse is speaking about the Holy Spirit speaking through you when you are delivered up before the anti-christ in the Hour of Temptation. The pre-trib rapture believers falsely claim that the Holy Spirit will be gone from the earth at this time. How can this verse be accomplished if the Holy Spirit is gone? This is another claim of pre-trib rapture believers that is preposterous. The Holy Spirit is ubiquitous; we are the ones who withdraw from Him.
            >This goes to show how far the false teachers of today will go to prove a false narrative by adding and subtracting from the Word of God at their whim. The rapture is the great deception of the end times. Are you deceived?
            Will you be as confused as the man in verse 6 who is actually checking to see if he is pregnant?
            Jeremiah30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
            24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.
            The great wedding is about to take place. Which bride will you take to wife?

            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Manny1962 February 18, 2017 at 12:31 pm #

            Good morning Robert,

            While I do agree that jumping to conclusions is not the proper thing to do, why give someone like Rick Warren, a known apostate, any sort of platform? Don’t you think that will confuse the sheep? Unless you don’t think Warren is an apostate?

          • Robert Trohon February 18, 2017 at 12:38 pm #

            Hi Manny…You asked if I think Rick Warren is an apostate….Only God knows his heart. Does He teach false ideas..yes, in my opinion.

            Is it right for Brian Brodersen to give him a platform on Calvary Chapel KWAVE radio? In my opinion , “No.”

            But to be honest with you Manny, I never verified that Brian KNEW of the programming change at KWAVE. That was my mistake. Brian is a very busy man, and I don’t know if programming changes go through his approval. In fact, I just wrote to KWAVE to get that answer. As soon as they respond I will try to post their answer here.

            Peace brother.

            Pastor Robert Trohon
            La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
            Managua, Nicaragua
            Website: Facebook —-> Robert Trohon

          • Manny1962 February 18, 2017 at 1:02 pm #

            Robert, I do believe in being cautious, I have no qualms about calling Warren an apostate, I’ve followed him for a long time, I know what he’s done in Africa, I know what he’s said concerning ecumenism, homosexuality and calling back to Rome, yes of course God knows his heart, but his witness and his actions have been duplicitous. I’m not concerned with his affiliations, that doesn’t mean a thing, as some have suggested, being member of supposed “conservative” SBC does not hold water, he parades as a teacher of God’s word, that means he’s held to a higher judgement and he is to be closely inspected. Now, it doesn’t mean Warren can’t repent and get right with God, deny the seeker movemen and all the garbage that he espouses and leave the pastor’s position. As of right now, he’s not teaching God’s word. Scripture clearly says not to have fellowship with those that call themselves Christians, but are not. Read Warren’s materials, research Africa and his work there, if one can’t see the man for what he is, then one is lacking discernment and common sense. I understand being cautious, but not at the expense of glaring error! As for Mr. Brodersen, only he can answer why he’s giving him a platform, as I said even music is a better fill-in than Warren.

          • Robert Trohon February 18, 2017 at 1:34 pm #

            Hi Manny,

            I have no qualms whatsoever (not “Whosoever”…haha thank God) in what you just posted to me about Rick Warren and his bad teaching, hypocritical teaching, etc…etc.

            It seems like you have done a very thorough investigation on him. Good job. Personally, I don’t feel inclined to go so deep (timewise). I have read enough from various sources (including the Berean Call, which I trust immensely) to be very wary of Rick Warren.

            I appreciate your love of truth. I feel TRUTH comes before love, because without truth, we cannot really discern true love. Jesus said I am the Way, and the TRUTH, and the life…. Not I am the Way and the LOVE, and the life. Although, Thank God…He is also the God of LOVE..

            In the truth and love of Jesus Christ,

            Pastor Robert Trohon
            La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
            Managua, Nicaragua

            Facebook: Robert Trohon

          • Manny1962 February 18, 2017 at 2:07 pm #

            Robert, first of all thank you for bringing the word of God to the good people of Nicaragua. And brother I cannot agree enough with you regarding truth before love, for truth is love! God bless you and your work in the Lord, days are dark and will be getting darker as the return of our Lord grows closer. Maranatha!

          • Robert Trohon February 18, 2017 at 8:27 pm #

            Thanks Manny…God bless you too in all you do for God and others. May we grow closer to Jesus in our personal relationship with Him as we seek His will ….for He is Able….. not us.

            Robert Trohon
            Managua, Nicaragua

          • Manny1962 February 19, 2017 at 3:07 am #

            Hello Carri,

            This was written in The Huffington Post, it was after the court overturned prop 8, which defined marriage between a man and a woman, Warren supported it at first, after decision to overturn and being called out by the homosexual community Warren folded:

            “The Choice Is Ours Now
            By Melissa Etheridge
            This is a message for my brothers and sisters who have fought so long and so hard for gay rights and liberty. We have spent a long time climbing up this mountain, looking at the impossible, changing a thousand year-old paradigm. We have asked for the right to love the human of our choice, and to be protected equally under the laws of this great country. The road at times has been so bloody, and so horrible, and so disheartening. From being blamed for 9/11 and Katrina, to hateful crimes committed against us, we are battle weary. We watched as our nation took a step in the right direction, against all odds and elected Barack Obama as our next leader. Then we were jerked back into the last century as we watched our rights taken away by prop 8 in California. Still sore and angry we felt another slap in the face as the man we helped get elected seemingly invited a gay-hater to address the world at his inauguration.

            I hadn’t heard of Pastor Rick Warren before all of this. When I heard the news, in its neat little sound bite form that we are so accustomed to, it painted the picture for me. This Pastor Rick must surely be one hate spouting, money grabbing, bad hair televangelist like all the others. He probably has his own gay little secret bathroom stall somewhere, you know. One more hater working up his congregation to hate the gays, comparing us to pedophiles and those who commit incest, blah blah blah. Same ‘ole thing. Would I be boycotting the inauguration? Would we be marching again?

            Well, I have to tell you my friends, the universe has a sense of humor and indeed works in mysterious ways. As I was winding down the promotion for my Christmas album I had one more stop last night. I’d agreed to play a song I’d written with my friend Salman Ahmed, a Sufi Muslim from Pakistan. The song is called “Ring The Bells,” and it’s a call for peace and unity in our world. We were going to perform our song for the Muslim Public Affairs Council, a group of Muslim Americans that tries to raise awareness in this country, and the world, about the majority of good, loving, Muslims. I was honored, considering some in the Muslim religion consider singing to be against God, while other Muslim countries have harsh penalties, even death for homosexuals. I felt it was a very brave gesture for them to make. I received a call the day before to inform me of the keynote speaker that night… Pastor Rick Warren. I was stunned. My fight or flight instinct took over, should I cancel? Then a calm voice inside me said, “Are you really about peace or not?”

            I told my manager to reach out to Pastor Warren and say “In the spirit of unity I would like to talk to him.” They gave him my phone number. On the day of the conference I received a call from Pastor Rick, and before I could say anything, he told me what a fan he was. He had most of my albums from the very first one. What? This didn’t sound like a gay hater, much less a preacher. He explained in very thoughtful words that as a Christian he believed in equal rights for everyone. He believed every loving relationship should have equal protection. He struggled with proposition 8 because he didn’t want to see marriage redefined as anything other than between a man and a woman. He said he regretted his choice of words in his video message to his congregation about proposition 8 when he mentioned pedophiles and those who commit incest. He said that in no way, is that how he thought about gays. He invited me to his church, I invited him to my home to meet my wife and kids. He told me of his wife’s struggle with breast cancer just a year before mine.

            When we met later that night, he entered the room with open arms and an open heart. We agreed to build bridges to the future.

            Brothers and sisters the choice is ours now. We have the world’s attention. We have the capability to create change, awesome change in this world, but before we change minds we must change hearts. Sure, there are plenty of hateful people who will always hold on to their bigotry like a child to a blanket. But there are also good people out there, Christian and otherwise that are beginning to listen. They don’t hate us, they fear change. Maybe in our anger, as we consider marches and boycotts, perhaps we can consider stretching out our hands. Maybe instead of marching on his church, we can show up en mass and volunteer for one of the many organizations affiliated with his church that work for HIV/AIDS causes all around the world.

            Maybe if they get to know us, they wont fear us.

            I know, call me a dreamer, but I feel a new era is upon us.

            I will be attending the inauguration with my family, and with hope in my heart. I know we are headed in the direction of marriage equality and equal protection for all families.

            Happy Holidays my friends and a Happy New Year to you.

            Peace on earth, goodwill toward all men and women… and everyone in-between.”

          • Manny1962 February 19, 2017 at 10:24 am #

            Good morning Carri, I tried to post this for you last night, but somehow it didn’t work, I listed entire page, maybe that why? Any way, here’s the link:

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melissa-etheridge/the-choice-is-ours-now_b_152947.html

        • Mark M (aka waterdog) February 17, 2017 at 5:35 pm #

          actually the station is KWVE – Problem is Brian removed two highly respected and faithful bible teachers, Jack Hibbs and John Randall. Months later, Rick Warren is taking over John Randall’s 4:30am spot. Brian had no one to fill their slots it was punitive totally contrary to his call for unity, but the truth is that was never his agenda – actions speak louder than words…

          • Kim February 17, 2017 at 7:09 pm #

            My thought is if you believe in someone and want to see them grow, you support them by putting them on your station. Brian obviously sees nothing wrong with Rick’s teachings and that my friend is very scary. We are what we eat. So, if Brian didn’t think Rick’s teachings were ecumenical, apostate, or mystic teachings, he would put him on the air blind or it means Brian agrees with his Rick’s teachings.

          • Carri February 18, 2017 at 4:10 am #

            Evil eye. Sees only evil no matter what one does.

          • Robert Trohon February 18, 2017 at 12:41 pm #

            To Mark M…Thanks for the correction mark.. I put KLOVE when as you correctly state…it is KWAVE (the Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, CA radio station.

            peace,

            Pastor Robert Trohon
            La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
            Managua, Nicaragua
            Website: Facebook —-> Robert Trohon

        • Robert Trohon February 18, 2017 at 12:25 pm #

          Sorry it is Calvary Chapel’s KWave radio station that is allowing Rick Warren to preach twice a day, ….NOT KLOVE

          https://www.kwve.com/

          my apologies.

          Pastor Robert Trohon
          La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
          Managua, Nicaragua
          Website: facebook —-> Robert Trohon

      • Amy Spreeman February 17, 2017 at 4:28 pm #

        Again, your flying off the handle shows me that Brodersen has become your idol. You need to hold all things up to the light of Scripture. I am sorry only that this is hard for you to hear.

        • Carri February 18, 2017 at 4:07 am #

          Amy Spreeman, Wow, really?? Brian my idol? This kind of over reacting is exactly what I am complaining about with not only you but most of your followers here. When you resort to personal attacks, you have no real argument do you.

          Brian is in no way my idol. I do not idolize people. Never have. I do not even attend a Calvary. I left Calvary years ago. But I do know him a bit and Calvary was my roots years ago. I know enough about him to not believe most of what I’m hearing. I am currently listening to him preach on the internet as much as I can to hear for myself where he’s coming from. I actually am encouraged that he has become more Gospel centered and evangelistic.It even sounds like someone from the reformed camp has influenced him. Which in my opinion is good! And please, don’t accuse me of “flying off the handle”. Geez.

  5. Edwitness November 7, 2016 at 11:00 am #

    He seems to be using the subtlety of the serpent here. He uses a quote from Chuck Smith, who he “countered” against once a month while he was alive, to try to say Chuck’s true desire for Calvary Chapel agrees with his own. Talk about double talk!

    He also says that his differences with some of the other CC leadership has nothing to do with CC directives. And at the same time joins hands with NAR and others who could not be further from the CC distinctives.

    But, the gist that I got from this letter is that he says he is stepping away from the leadership team at CC but, will remain in leadership. And will continue as senior pastor at CCCM. No wonder he says it brings him freedom. What he did was to remain in his position as leader while removing himself from any accountability to the rest of the CCA council.
    That’s not freedom. That’s license.

    Those who love Jesus and those who do not are being manifested more and more. May God continue His judgment of His church, the whole body, as we know it begins at the house of the Lord.

    Thank you Amy for sharing this with us.

    Blessings:-}

    • Jerod November 7, 2016 at 11:25 am #

      Ed, you are right on. Thx

    • Q November 7, 2016 at 2:33 pm #

      Yep.

      And this looks to be a total power grab, it looks like a genius move, genius in a diabolical way. CCCM (Brian) owns the Calvary Chapel brand (name & logo), CC.com, and will soon own CC Global Network.

      Many churches associated with CCA will join CC Global Network, new churches will have to decide which group they will want to “join” unless CCA disbands or changes it name. CC churches will have to decide to go this new direction, stay with what Chuck taught which will not be popular to the masses or go on their own.

      One thing I’ve learned is you can’t change the methodology without changing the theology and doctrine. I think the point is to let everyone do whatever they feel like, I mean “feel led” to do and Brian Brodersen will lead the way.

      • Edwitness November 7, 2016 at 2:58 pm #

        Yes Q,
        It makes me sad. Because I also used to recommend people to go to Calvary Chapel when they asked for a good Bible based church. I believe that Chuck and Greg taught what is the closest to the grace of God given to us through Paul of any other church one could go to.
        I started at Calvary Chapel in Riverside with Greg Laurie years ago when they met at Rain Cross Square.

        Their method of verse by verse instruction was fool proof. No matter what the teacher said it meant, you were reading right along with them to see whether what he was teaching was actually what it said. It is a very Berean method of study.

        With what Brian wants to do now there will be no way for the young people he says he is trying to reach, to know that there is a line upon line, verse by verse right way of study. Unless they hear it somewhere else. Hopefully right from those scriptures.

        And the power grab we both see here is off the charts bad. WOW!
        Blessings:-} brother

      • Carri February 17, 2017 at 2:56 am #

        You see what you want to see. Anything can be twisted around to “look” as if it is evil or good. That is what many of you are doing. False teachers are experts at this so be careful!
        You are reading INTO the situation what you believe and what you want to see and believe because you are biased. CCA tried to have power and control and keep everything the Chuck Smith way. Since when are we to model ministries after a man?? No matter how great they were, men make mistakes; which Pastor Chuck did! Why follow another man’s mistakes? We are to follow the Word of God. All Brian wants to do is to be free to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in his life and ministry just like Pastor Chuck wanted to do many years ago. The CCA is trying to institutionalize Calvary Chapel, just like Pastor Chuck said NOT TO DO. Wake up people and think!

        • Kim February 17, 2017 at 11:18 am #

          Is the Holy Spirit leading Brian to Apostate? Because that is exactly where he is going. When someone has Rick Warren, who is a mystic, into contemplative prayer, ecumenism, one world church, as a good buddy, they are heading for Apostate, doom, and Hell!! They are misleading so many people, and they will answer for it. Don’t reply to me as being judgemental, because I have spent many hours researching and this my friend is DECEPTION. Those who present themselves of doing God’s work in Jesus name and then practice all the things mentioned above are an abomination. Satan has infiltrated their hearts and minds. Anyone, who is working with the Catholic Church trying to merge all the “Religions” together, is an Apostate. The Pope, who says Islam and Christianity have the same God, is the enemy, not a friend. There is only one true God, the Trinity of God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. My God is in no way going to share the throne with anyone. Do not follow what man does…follow Jesus, listen to the Holy Spirit.

          • Carri February 17, 2017 at 2:33 pm #

            Kim said “Is the Holy Spirit leading Brian to Apostate? Because that is exactly where he is going. When someone has Rick Warren, who is a mystic, into contemplative prayer, ecumenism, one world church, as a good buddy, they are heading for Apostate, doom, and Hell!! ”

            Kim, if Brian is a friend of Rick Warren does that make him one with Rick’s teachings? Here it is again, guilty by association! Brian knows better than to believe what Rick teaches and does. Are you friends with those who do not share your beliefs? To jump to this extreme conclusion is wrong. I’m all for judging by the way. But the right kind of judgement. Tell me, where can I find Brian TEACHING any of these things you’ve listed off in your previous comment? Where can I find Brian being an apostate? You still have no evidence to prove this, just extreme emotions and extreme wrong judging conclusions. If you have something to prove me wrong, I’m all ears. I will not defend false teachers. But I do not see nor hear it from Brian.

          • Kim February 17, 2017 at 6:56 pm #

            Carri,
            It is not by association it is by influence. I do not have any friends that I spend any amount of time with, that are not on the same page as I am. I have acquaintances but I do not spend time with them regularly. If we hang out with people who are of not like mind/belief we can be influenced. Anyone, a person spends a considerable amount of time with can be easily influenced. It is being unequally yoked. I also want you to know I am not being emotional about this. I am trying to get you to research. Lighthouse trails is one reference, which I know you made a reference to. There are more. What I also want you to understand, is I found out about some preachers I really liked and it was so difficult to read about what they now stand for and how satan has twisted their minds. We must look at every single thing nowadays with the idea that evilness could be lurking around the corner. Evil is the easier road to follow then to take the nonevil route. I understand you want to give Brian the benefit of the doubt, but Brian has given Rick Warren a slot on k wave radio. Now if Brian didn’t believe in the teachings that Rick has, then why would he want someone on the radio station that is spewing lies to God’s people. Or, to someone that may be just happened to turn on that station. Brian has to agree with what Rick says, or he wouldn’t have a spot on the station. YOU might not see the Apostate coming out of him yet, but ask God for guidance, for a halt in your spirit. Ask him to truly show you with the attitude you will listen to the Holy Spirit, no matter what you find out about Brian. Even it is information that makes you grieve, you will listen and obey. I know this is hard, and I am not just ripping on Brian. I am angry and disappointed with many of these so called teachers that are wearing sheep’s clothing. Now ask for discernment and research.

        • Robert Trohon February 18, 2017 at 1:22 pm #

          Carri Said on February 17, 2017 at 2:56 am #
          You see what you want to see. Anything can be twisted around to “look” as if it is evil or good. That is what many of you are doing. False teachers are experts at this so be careful!

          CCA tried to have power and control and keep everything the Chuck Smith way. Since when are we to model ministries after a man??

          All Brian wants to do is to be free to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in his life and ministry just like Pastor Chuck wanted to do many years ago. The CCA is trying to institutionalize Calvary Chapel, just like Pastor Chuck said NOT TO DO. Wake up people and think!”

          Response from Robert Trohon:

          Carrie…you seem like a prudent, smart woman…who is also quite honest and forthright…all good qualities. And I totally agree with what you say about some of these discernment ministries getting too carried away with their accusations….seeming to be searching for evil where there is no evil etc. etc.. or blowing things out of proportion. Maybe there is not enough “Bad” news and they need to grasp at straws. I don’t know.

          I do know that I am cautious in everything I read from the various “discernment” ministries and actually have to discern if what they say is actually true…partially true …or totally fabricated on supposition. It is an education in itself. I thank God I have the time to check them out, but I am also grateful for many of the articles they write, as it brings to my awareness some of the false teaching within our worldwide church.

          On the issue of the CCA (Calvary Chapel Association). I know a few of those men on that board personally, and the others are of good reputation. I really do not feel they are trying to institutionalize Calvary Chapel. Yes, they may have some old-fashioned ideas…but they also have a heart to reach the youth. Their ideas are not based on Chuck Smith, as you say. They are based on the vision that Chuck received from God…therefore they are leading by God’s will and vision (hopefully).

          As a CC pastor, I have never felt any pressure from CCA to do anything “out-of-the-ordinary. In fact, I have never had any pressure from CCA to do anything. We Calvary Chapel preachers are pretty free to lead our individual churches as we seek God’s will for our particular church. It is good to stay within the distinctives of Calvary Chapel, as our guideline, and we do have set doctrine…but there are differences on the non-essentials within various churches.

          We preach the word in TRUTH, and reach out to others in love and truth. And we try to develop a PERSONAL relationship with Jesus Christ…as He is alive and He is our God who feels…cries…has joy etc. We were made in His image, therefore we can grow to actually know Him as a person. This is all Calvary Chapel Association is working towards. And I hope Brian Brodersen is doing the same.

          The split…(and it is a split) between CCA and CC Costa Mesa came about as a result of differences in METHODOLOGY, not doctrine.

          As I said in an earlier post, I am in a wait-and-see mode concerning Brodersen and the Calvary Global Network. It may be a good thing…used by God to reach out in a direction that God wants for CC Costa Mesa and churches that agree with this “new’ methodology. Time will tell, sister.

          I truly enjoy your posts, and pray that you continue to be blessed with the peace of God every day.

          In the love of Jesus Christ,

          Pastor Robert Trohon
          La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
          Managua, Nicaragua

          Facebook: Robert Trohon

          • Carri February 18, 2017 at 4:31 pm #

            Pastor Robert said “As I said in an earlier post, I am in a wait-and-see mode concerning Brodersen and the Calvary Global Network. It may be a good thing…used by God to reach out in a direction that God wants for CC Costa Mesa and churches that agree with this “new’ methodology. Time will tell, sister.”

            Thank you Robert for your kind response. But if you are just waiting and seeing as you said above, then why are you condemning Brian so much? Have you talked to him personally about all the accusations against him? Remember, there’s two sides to every story.

            And in my opinion, for the CCA boys to follow Chuck’s vision is the same thing as following Chuck. Aren’t we to follow scripture and not a man; and the Holy Spirit gives to each Pastor his own vision for his own church? I can’t help but think the CCA boys want to control CC and that is something Chuck did not want to happen. I would encourage you to talk to Brian yourself and not believe everything you read. Look at the over exaggerations by most on this blog. It shows they have a lack of real discernment and credibility.
            Blessings to you broher~

    • Kalaukia November 8, 2016 at 1:04 pm #

      I have been a “member” of three Calvary Chapels over the years. In two of them, the pastors were participants in corruption. One had numerous affairs; the other refused to show the congregation financial statements. Costa Mesa covered for both of them. Ahhh, but the third pastor was a God-fearing man who refused to cover up for his assistant pastor who had attained his position on a lie. That assistant pastor had connections to the powers-that-be in Costa Mesa and our pastor was told to let it go. This pastor said that, if he was being given the option of following God’s Word or man’s word, he would choose God! At great monetary cost, heart-brokenness, and the loss of some people who chose to follow man’s word, this pastor and our church split from Calvary Chapel. God has refilled the seats and our pastor has risen up with an even stronger passion for preaching and adhering to the Word of God. Chuck Smith must be “rolling in his grave”. There are still wonderful Calvary Chapel churches and pastors out there but Calvary Chapel’s “kingship” lies in Costa Mesa, not heaven. It is no longer the church that Chuck Smith founded. Looks as though Brodersen is now ready to establish his own personal following. ” Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron…” (1 Timothy 4)

      • Carri February 17, 2017 at 3:02 am #

        Hate to surprise you, but Pastor Chuck covered many rogue pastors in his day and let them continue to stand in the pulpit. Sins that would disqualify them! That was one of my beefs with Calvary through the years and why I lost respect for Calvary.

  6. Manny1962 November 7, 2016 at 11:41 am #

    My friends as I always like to remind: seeker friendly, NAR, Laussane, Warren’s Chrislam, all of these movements will coalesce into the final world religion. As the day grows nearer, you will see great defection, many will publicly reject Christ while still holding on to the term Christian. The birth pangs are getting closer. We don’t know the day! But our Lord said we can know the times! It’s not only in religion, it’s in the economy of the world, and the world’s military powers! Lemmings to the cliff! I would ask that we all pray incessantly. The next few days will be turbulent as a new president will be selected (not elected.) we can say that Mrs. Clinton is not the antchrist for he is a man, with the number of a man. Don’t despair when she is chosen by the powers behind the curtain, we are citizens of heaven not of this God hating world. Just as CC is a passing chapter so is the rest of this putrid world. We await our Savior to bring his little flock home and He will, as He promised. Now is the time to reach out to he lost, even to pray for our despicable leaders…….why? Because God mandated us to……He will show His flock mercy by keeping the leaders evil restrained! So pray, even if you don’t like what passes for leadership, it is to our benefit!
    Maranatha! God bless everyone and may He bless the work being done here to further His Word and to contend for the faith! Amen.

  7. Frances November 7, 2016 at 12:02 pm #

    Amy, thank you for that news. Will be waiting for you to let us know which CCs are leaving with Brodersen.

    • Amy Spreeman November 7, 2016 at 12:14 pm #

      I’m going to keep on reporting about this. The implications of the new Global Network” go way beyond just a CC issue, and I believe many will latch on to this as BB rides the harlot toward Rome.

      • Manny1962 November 7, 2016 at 12:19 pm #

        Amen Amy! See the lemmings run, so sad. All these splinter groups are running to Rome, eyes wide open!

      • Q November 7, 2016 at 2:40 pm #

        Great point Amy, this opens the door to churches that have never identified with CC.

  8. Douglas Evans November 7, 2016 at 2:00 pm #

    I felt this kind of thing was going to happen when the family squabble broke out following Chuck’s death (his daughter Janette Manderson filed a lawsuit against Calvary Chapel and her brother in law Brian Brodersen for ” prematurely removing Smith from leadership and betraying Smith’s desires for his ministry’s legacy”) She claimed that Brodersen and others allegedly “planned and perpetrated a scheme to seize control over” Smith’s sermons and other TWFT property in 2009 in order to use donations and sales revenues to “maintain [CCCM’s] current level of operations.” accusing Brodersen and others of elder abuse and financial elder abuse.

    When youngsters were looking for a bible centered church I used to point them toward the Calvary Chapel and their cover-to-cover verse-by-verse preaching. No more.

    Now I tell them “Find a small church with the old hymns. You’ll find Jesus preached there”

    • Q November 7, 2016 at 2:46 pm #

      I think this last move by Brian pretty much completes the power grab, now it all just has to play out. Although I believe Janette Smith Manderson will win back The Word For Today.

      • alphabet November 8, 2016 at 12:06 am #

        Amen. We just left Calvary Chapel in Canada this past summer for many various reasons. We would much rather find a small church that plays hymns and preaches the gospel. We found the silence at the pulpit about issues today hard.

  9. rick arnold November 7, 2016 at 2:45 pm #

    follow the money

    • Tony Smith November 7, 2016 at 6:48 pm #

      Low blow Rick. For all those who want to judge Brian, GROW UP!

  10. Michael November 7, 2016 at 7:28 pm #

    Somebody please help me. What is all the fuss about? Why would anybody be surprised this is happening?

    ALL of institutionalized religion is ALL going to end in the same place and in the same way. It’s not just the Purpose Driven Paradigm. It’s not just the Word Faith folks. Not just the NAR and its adherents. ALL of these errors have been directly spawned via institutionalized religion- including Chuck Smith’s Moses Model of leadership. That is not and was never an acceptable form of leadership since the resurrection of Christ. The ONLY mediator is Christ Himself.

    Just as Jesus cut off the old Adam in us via our crucifixion and identification with Christ, so has he cut us off from this world system (we are crucified to the world and the world to us) and everything originating within it. Do any of you even believe this- what the Scriptures make plain.

    The truth is simple: people want to control both the work of God and His people. That is what happens when the Spirit of God is ousted and formal religion is put in His place. Do any of you know what the Bible calls this- its called the spirit of antichrist. It was and is present in Catholicism, was and is present in the former and present Reformers and is present wherever men TAKE THE PLACE OF JESUS. That is what EVERY modern day pastor or priest does on a regular basis. I don’t care if these people are sincere- they are dead wrong and dreadfully deceived or worse.

    Please wake up people. Religious denomination/churches do not need to be saved. Let Jesus and His shaking of them continue. Soon, not one stone will be left to topple. In the meantime, give them and everyone who remains within them to their own devices. Either leave Babylon while their is time or be destroyed if you choose to stay.

    Brian is right about this: the choice isn’t about whether to side with one manmade institution or framework or another.

    Brian is wrong about this: This has always been about taking sides. Not with what men denominate (name) thus have ownership and control over, but with either what Jesus is building or what men are building. Institutional religion is Satan’s masterpiece. Is it any wonder Jesus posed this statement about the elect: so as to mislead if possible, even the elect.

    Forget what you have been taught. It’s not only possible, its happening before our very eyes…..those who can see anyway.

    • Carri February 17, 2017 at 3:09 am #

      Michael says “Forget what you have been taught. It’s not only possible, its happening before our very eyes…..those who can see anyway.”

      Really?? That’s what the NAR people say. Dangerous

      • Michael February 17, 2017 at 7:15 am #

        I said, “Forget what you have been taught” (by religious men). The Holy Spirit promises to lead God’s people into all truth and this is confirmed in 1 John 2:27:

        “As for you, the anointing you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, abide in Him”

        I find it hardly coincidental that this same Spirit chose to speak this about religious men (many of whom are apostates and antichrists) in the previous verse:

        “These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you”
        Herein lies the real danger every professing believer ought to take serious heed to.

        • Carri February 17, 2017 at 2:23 pm #

          Michael said “Forget what you have been taught” (by religious men). The Holy Spirit promises to lead God’s people into all truth and this is confirmed in 1 John 2:27″

          Many can claim they are hearing from the Holy Spirit but usually they are listening to their own imaginations. Most of those types of Christians are wrack job extreme charismatics who have drifted from sound teaching. God gave the Church teachers as a part of His gifts to the Church. You can’t discard them because there are some false ones around! And we are told to be good bereans, to check what we hear being taught with scripture NOT the Holy Spirit. The problem with saying I’ll let the Holy Spirit tell me what is true is that it is very subjective! He leads us by the truth of God’s Word not the other way around. That’s why God gave us a BOOK, so we have objective truth to lead us and the Holy Spirit comes along side that truth.

          The Devil’s tactic today is to use the sin’s of false teaching churches and sinning pastors to stumble Christians and turn them against going to church. This is not the way to handle it. A few bad apples doesn’t mean you throw them all out and go independent. When you’re independent you are EASY prey to be picked off by Satan. You have no accountability, no input from gifted leaders and teachers, no outlet to use your gifts, it lacks in fellowship and you are NOT furthering the Kingdom of God (even though you can easily justify it) This is NOT God’s way. Please don’t listen to the lies of Satan. Commit yourself to a good Bible teaching Church. When we know the genuine article (the Word), then we can spot the counterfeit.

  11. Manny1962 November 7, 2016 at 7:50 pm #

    Amen Michael, amen!

  12. Mark M (aka waterdog) November 7, 2016 at 9:02 pm #

    I wish Brian would have worked with and come to common ground with the other Regional CC’s in LA and Orange County. Over all these years churches worked together so people could have assurance that the teaching would have biblical foundations as identified in the Calvary Chapel Distinctive’s. His decision to bail came to soon from his justification paper of late last week.Brian could have stayed with the CCA Council after all he was the president of KWVE radio stations, and the CC Bible Colleges. Fortunately the land ownership is to CC Costa Mesa but its oversight belong to CC Costa Mesa. I feel that his decision demonstrates a lack of respect for the responsibility that he did not earn but was given. I hope he changes his mind and collaborates with the other CC in this CCA region to put out the flames of perceived worldly behavior verses raising to biblical standard of managing disagreements.

  13. Mary W November 7, 2016 at 9:21 pm #

    Get your facts straight, their was not a church split. Britain stepped down from a men’s group that formed 3 years ago

    • Daz November 17, 2016 at 1:43 am #

      Thanks for the reality check amongst all the innuendo and perception, Mary.

  14. Mary W November 7, 2016 at 10:20 pm #

    CCA is a group of 20 men that are trying to fill a need, Ask Don. Brian’s heart is to go into all parts of the world with CCs. As far as I know Don McClure and Brian are good friends and it’s ok to be in more than one ministry

  15. Robert Trohon November 7, 2016 at 11:23 pm #

    Thanks to God for these “Watchtower” ministries such as Berean Research, The Berean Call. Lighthouse Trails, and Roger Oakland’s ministry, as well as websites such as Gotquestions.org, and other SOLID TRUTH-SEEKING ministries to help us discern the WAY of the LORD. I am excited. Living one day at a time, as Jesus taught, waiting on the leading of the blessed Holy Spirit to guide me and help me to live a life pleasing to our great God and His great Son Jesus Christ. I love You God. And I trust You.
    Peace to all my true brothers and sisters out there in Christian-land.

    Pastor Robert Trohon
    La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel…at least for now)
    Managua, Nicaragua
    Website: facebook —-> Robert Trohon

    • Carri February 17, 2017 at 3:19 am #

      Unfortunately Robert Trohon, even though these “discernment” ministries seem good and right, you have to really filter OUT a lot of things. They have left their original purpose of REAL discernment and truth and now condemn everyone, not basing their evaluations on truth! They have an evil eye and see evil in almost everything. It’s guilt by association these days. I wish it were not the case because there is a need for good discernment ministries. I’d look into carm.org Be careful with what you read anywhere.

  16. Martin Bucer November 8, 2016 at 12:36 am #

    What much of this illustrates—as much as I appreciated Chuck’s heart in many ways—is how much Calvary Chapel[s] had actually become a personality cult. Sociologically this happens not just to Calvary Chapels, but also to other big movements that are centered around one person (like MacArthur’s church).

    Just remember, there is such a thing in the history of Protestant Christianity known as Protestant Orthodoxy that developed post magisterial Reformation in the 16th and 17th centuries. That’s not to say that everything developed in that period is pristine, but it is the era from whence movements like Calvary Chapels derive some of their doctrinal emphases from; particularly the heavy focus on Scripture and its exposition. I’m only noting this to try and provide perspective for some here; to encourage you, so that you don’t think that all is lost even if Calvary Chapels as a whole dissolved (which they aren’t of course). In other words, in short: sound biblical Christianity is not the sole possession of Calvary Chapels or small hymn singing Bible churches. Take heart!

    • Gary Williams November 8, 2016 at 10:57 am #

      Martin Bucer, in a place where multiple commenters are quick to condemn, you provide some sound thought and perspective. Any church or denomination will become flavored in various ways by the individuals and personalities who lead or founded that particular piece of Jesus’ flock–this is a fact of human nature.

      I came to faith in Christ through the ministry of a Calvary Chapel in SoCal many years ago. While I have long since left my original place of fellowship, I am thankful for the continued faithful (if not perfect) ministry that has seen many come to Jesus over the decades. Peace

  17. Mary W November 8, 2016 at 12:37 am #

    During Chucks last days after he was diagnosed with Lung cancer, I would watch his Sunday services or interviews and I did not enjoy them . Pastor Chuck would go on and on about the past reminiscing and I believe Brian out of the goodness of his heart let him preach tell the day he died. They were terrible sermons but because it was Pastor Chuck I personally would pray love cover him. Yes Brian is now having to clean house I agree but it was something that should have been done 10 years before Chuck died, Chuck left this mess for Brian because he Trusts him. Remember Chuck was just a man and he was far from perfect, He left us an example of love and how to live like Chist

    • Edwitness November 9, 2016 at 5:15 pm #

      Mary W,
      You may not have seen this video done by Chuck Smith’s brother at Chuck’s request. If you will watch it you may come away from it with a little different perspective on what it is that Chuck really wanted.
      As Pastor Chuck Smith’s brother, Pastor Paul Smith wanted to share some of the events that occurred and he personally witnessed.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D9Y-cQmGsE

    • Carri February 17, 2017 at 3:24 am #

      Amen Mary W. Well said

  18. mark November 8, 2016 at 8:56 am #

    The biggest promoter of the false doctrine of the rapture and many other false doctrine.
    I listened to Calvary for about a year on Pastors Perspective and have never heard so many unqualified people speaking at one time.
    You will go down in history as a false church who taught their people to fly away rather than face the devil in the great tribulation.
    The tribulation has already started and rapture has been proven a lie.
    We are in the second stage of the development of the Locust Armies in the world.

    Don Stewart, Chuck Smith, Brian Broderson, and many more all have your part in this so great a lie of the end times called the rapture doctrine.

    Ezekiel addressed this false doctrine of the end times in his lament to the House of Israel.
    Ezekiel 13:20 God hates those preacher teachers that teach His children to fly away to save their souls.

    Calvary; You have taught your congregation to fly away to save their souls for years and your time is up.
    You are part of the Church of Laodiceia.
    Your candlestick will be removed
    MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

    • Edwitness November 9, 2016 at 5:21 pm #

      Mark,
      I guess that means that you believe that when Jeremiah said the awful days to come were the time of Jacobs trouble, that was for the church that replaced Israel, right?

      • mark November 11, 2016 at 11:59 am #

        The Church was never replaced by Israel. The House of Israel is the USA and most of the Christian nations of the world. Your narrative suggests that you believe in the “Jew” only Zionist view of Christianity. The Twelve tribes are alive and well and are not all Jews. Many confuse the two but they are split at this time as Ezekiel 37 states.

        The House of Judah and the House of Israel are split at this time so your comments about Jeremiah are misplaced.

      • mark November 11, 2016 at 12:05 pm #

        This is a page from my new book that all of calvary needs to understand.
        The Last Day
        The Last Trump
        7th Trump
        52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
        THE TERM “LAST DAY” IS ONLY USED IN JOHN 5 TIMES AND IT MEANS JUST THAT. THE LAST DAY OF GRACE.
        John 6:39
        And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the LAST DAY.
        40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY.
        John 6:44
        No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY
        John 6:54
        Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the LAST DAY
        John 7:37
        In the LAST DAY, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. (The WEDDING FEAST)
        John 11: 24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the LAST DAY.
        1 Corinthians 15
        51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
        52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed
        SOME WILL NOT DIE, THEY WILL SIMPLY BE CHANGED AND NEVER EXPERIENCE THE HOLDING PLACE OR PARADISE AFTER THE DEATH OF THE FLESH. THEY WILL GO STRAIGHT TO THE MILLENNIUM OR THE LORDS DAY IN THE MILLENNIAL REIN OF JESUS THE CHRIST. THE ONES WHO ARE SLEEPING SO TO SPEAK ARE SIMPLY IN PARADISE AWAITING THE NEXT AGE OR DISPENSATION OF TIME UNTIL JUDGEMENT AND THEN ETERNITY.
        Thessalonians 4:
        13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
        14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him
        > SLEEP IN JESUS> THEY ARE WITH HIM IN PARADISE. THEY ARE NOT SLEEPING IN A LITERAL SENSE. They are in holding. SOME ON THE GOOD SIDE OF THE “GULF”AND SOME ON THE BAD SIDE OF THE GULF, SUCH AS THE “RICH MAN”AND LAZARUS. NOBODY IS LYING IN A HOLE IN THE GROUND AS ALL WHO HAVE DIED IN THE FLESH, HAVE RISEN AND ARE IN PARADISE as in Luke 16:21.
        1 Thessalonians 4
        15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
        WE CAN NOT PRECEDE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY THERE. They will come back with him at his RETURN.
        16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
        THE carnally ‘DEAD’ WHO ARE IN HEAVEN WILL COME WITH HIM AND THOSE WHO ARE HERE AND ALIVE IN THE FLESH AT THAT TIME WILL BE CHANGED IN THE MOMENT IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE AT JESUS RETURN.
        17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
        CAUGHT UP IN THE BIGGEST FAMILY REUNION IN HISTORY. NOT FLOATING IN THE CLOUDS AS SO MANY THINK. CLOUD IS A TERM USED FOR A BIG GROUP AND WHEN WE MEET HIM WE WILL BE IN OUR “NUMAH” OR, OUR “AIR BODY” (ALL IN SPIRITUAL BODIES.)
        Strong’s Concordance
        aér: air# 109 Greek
        Original Word: ἀήρ, ἀέρος, ὁ
        Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
        Transliteration: aér
        Phonetic Spelling: (ah-ayr’)
        Short Definition: air
        Definition: air, the lower air we breathe.
        air.
        From aemi (to breathe unconsciously, i.e. Respire; by analogy, to blow); “air” (as naturally circumambient) — air. Compare psuch
        18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
        WE CAN NOT ENTER HEAVEN IN THE FLESH. FLESH IS CORRUPTION, SPIRIT IS IN CORRUPTION. SOME SPIRITS WILL BE MORTAL SPIRITS AND SOME SPIRITS WILL BE IMMORTAL, ALL WILL BE THERE IN THE MILLENNIUM.
        54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
        55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
        56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
        57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
        58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
        THERE IS ONLY ONE LAST TRUMP, BE READY, BE VIGILANT IN YOUR COMMITMENT TO THE LORD, HE WILL ACCEPT NOTHING LESS.
        MV 2015 The RemnantSeed

      • mark November 11, 2016 at 12:10 pm #

        Here is one more for Calvary. BTW if anybody from your church would like to debate me in a public forum on the subject of rapture I would be glad to challenge you anytime.
        The Last Trump
        Many Christians who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture should look at this word “LAST” as it is used in Corinthians 15:52, in the Greek language. Last means just that, LAST. There is only one “LAST”.
        The LORD Jesus Christ does not appear at the 6th , or the sixth and half, or the second seventh trump. There is only one LAST trump. The seventh trump.
        It seems that the Christian Church has lost its ability to count from one to seven.
        We are in the 5th trump right now. (The age of grace and teaching.)
        The 6th trump is about to be sounded with the appearance of the anti-christ and his fallen angels. In no way can the 6th trump precede the 7th trump if you can count from one to seven that is. The end times will happen just as the Bible say, not what some preacher or soothsayer says from a pulpit in a so called church.
        The rapture is a dream and the great end time deception of the prince and the power of the air; satan himself. A “fairy tail” or “tale”, the “tail” of satan. Do not let his “tail”- TAIL, DRAW you in, just as the MARK of the beast, would Mark you for destruction if you worship the anti-christ.
        CORINTHIANS 15:
        1 ¶ Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
        52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Thes. 4.15-17
        Strong’s Concordance
        eschatos: last, extreme
        Original Word: ἔσχατος, η, ον
        Part of Speech: Adjective
        Transliteration: eschatos
        Phonetic Spelling: (es’-khat-os)
        Short Definition: last, at the last, finally
        Definition: last, at the last, finally, till the end.
        Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
        end, last, uttermost.
        A superlative probably from echo (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time) — ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost.
        1 2 3 4 5 6 7
        MV 2015

        • Edwitness November 11, 2016 at 5:25 pm #

          Mark,

          Maybe I can help you with this but, since you “wrote a book” maybe not. I will try.

          Whe you read in 1Thes.4 about the rapture Paul gives us some indicators as to when it will happen. Or at least a sequence of events.
          1Thes.4:16,17- “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
          Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

          We know from this that those who have died in faith will precede those who are alive and remaining when jesus calls us up.

          2Thes.2:1-8- “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
          2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
          3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

          These verses show that they believed the rapture could happen at any moment and that it would precede the great tribulation. The time of Jacob’s trouble. And that there would be a falling away before the man of sin is revealed.

          4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

          5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

          6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

          7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
          And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:”

          These show that the timing is related to “he who now letteth” being taken out of the way first. And then the wicked is revealed. The only thing we must do is figure out who it is that now “letteth”(holds back).
          And since it is the church that has been given the ministry of reconciliation this must be the one who is holding back until the revealing of the AC. It is the church that holds back iniquity from coming to complete fulness. We are the salt and light in the world today.

          We find a very interesting statement by Jesus Himself in regard to the church’s ability to do this. In Mt.16:18 Jesus tells Peter that “…upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” And we find in Rev.13:7- “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

          If the church is here when the AC rules that would make Jesus a liar. Because it says here that he makes war with the saints and overcomes them. Therefore we must conclude that the rapture happens before the tribulation, the time of Jacob’s trouble, begins.

          And all of the tribes of Israel are represented in the Israel of the Middle East today. All of them. The Israel that returned to her land in May of 1948 is the Israel of God. She must be because she returned to her land on the exact day it was prophesied she would.

          Blessings:-}

          • mark November 11, 2016 at 8:55 pm #

            You use the same narrative as many in your camp do. Perhaps you are the one who needs help. Paul’s instruction in the verses you quoted are speaking about where the dead are in verse 13. Later in the verse he speaks of a “gathering back”but gives no chronology pre or post trib. All pre tribers use these verses in an attempt to create a false narrative but they speak nothing about chronology or when this event takes place.
            Your message has the same spirit behind it as most in the calvary hierarchy. Condescending>

          • mark November 11, 2016 at 9:00 pm #

            You twisted everything you quoted and your commentary is just flawed brother.
            here is another page of my “book” as you say

            Debunking the Rapture Theory, part 3

            Scripture reference:
            Revelation 3: Philadelphia
            10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

            Smyrna
            Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

            matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

            24; 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

            42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

            Mark 13:
            10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
            11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that HOUR, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.
            . 12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. (satan)
            13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
            So in essence the pre-trib believers are saying that they won’t be delivered up because they will be gone in a rapture. Their whole understanding of this “hour of temptation” is totally missed, because how can you be “delivered up to death”, if you are gone from the earth? Only Christians who know the truth are and can delivered up before death satan and not non believers. Why would Christians or non believers be delivered up to death if they already believe the anti-christ is Jesus? Can you see the flaws in their logic? If All Christians are gone in rapture who will be left to deceive? Look at words “ALL THE WORLD”, it means just what it says.

            Nobody will escape but will be kept from the “HOUR of blasphémos” or temptation” if you are in Jesus. To use modern vernacular I would say it like this: If you are asked, would you let the Holy Spirit speak through you? or would you Tempt Him.
            Another hidden truth in the Greek, is the word “Temptation” One meaning in Greek is “blasphemy” and the other is “Salem”, or “King of Salem”
            A few words that are key to understanding in Revelation 3:10;

            KEEP
            ◄ 5083. téreó ►. … 5083 tēréō (from tēros, “a guard”) – properly, maintain (preserve);
            (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact. …
            Strong’s Greek: 5084. τήρησις (térésis) — a watching …
            … being kept intact. See 5083 (tēreō). [5084 (tḗrēsis … keeping [the] commandments
            of God. 3 Occurrences. 5083. 5085.

            PATIENCE
            ◄ 3114. … Cognate: 3114 makrothyméō – properly, long-tempered (to defer anger),
            refusing to retaliate with anger, because of human reasoning. …
            Strong’s Greek: 3113. μακρόθεν (makrothen) — from afar …
            … stood at a distance, KJV: by sea, stood afar off, INT: trade by of distance
            stood. 14 Occurrences. 3112. 3114. Top of Page. Top of Page.
            Strong’s Greek: 3115. μακροθυμία (makrothumia) …
            … account [that] the longsuffering of our INT: Lord of us patience salvation esteem
            you. 14 Occurrences. 3114. 3116. Top of Page. Top of Page.

            TEMPTATION
            ◄ 989. blasphémos ►. … HELPS Word-studies. Cognate: 989 blásphēmos – what is blasphemous
            (reverses spiritual and moral realities). See 987 (blasphēmeō). …

            HOUR
            ◄ 5610. hóra ►. Strong’s … 4). Thayer’s Greek Lexicon. STRONGS NT
            5610: ὥρα ὥρα, ὥρας, ἡ, from Homer down, the Sept. …

            Strong’s Greek: 5611. ὡραῖος (hóraios) — seasonable …
            … 5611 hōraíos (from 5610 /hṓra, “an hour, the time of fulfillment”) – properly, a
            particular hour (a “season” of time); (figuratively) beautiful in timing …

            A kin word to TEMPTATION

            ◄ 4531. saleuó ►. … Englishman’s Concordance. Strong’s Greek 4531
            15 Occurrences ἐσάλευσεν — 1 Occ. ἐσαλεύθη — 1 Occ. …
            Strong’s Greek: 4532. Σαλήμ (Salém) — Salem, the home of …

            The tribulation however will come upon “all” the world. It should be every believers desire to be delivered up before death to let the Holy Spirit speak through you to enlighten the world as to who antichrist is. Not escape in a fly away rapture like a coward.
            Just look at Smyrna, They were told to get ready to be delivered up to anti-christ and not to get ready to fly away to escape the coming tribulation. What makes the other churches any different?
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 12:21 am #

            Mark,

            YOU twisted everything YOU quoted and YOUR commentary is just flawed brother.

            “…keep thee from…” “from” here is ἐκ in Greek. It means OUT OF or OUT FROM WITHIN. Out of or out from within what? The time of Jacob’s trouble. The great tribulation. That’s what.

            “…the devil shall cast some of you into prison…” Why some of them? I thought you said the great trib was for the whole world? Are you sure this is a reference to the GT?

            Your reference in Matthew is for Israel. Not the church.

            Your reference in Mark is for Israel also. Not the church.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 10:21 am #

            Ed
            Now you really surprise me with your inability to read a text in context.
            Do you really think God needs to move you and others “out of the way” in order to accomplish His wrath?
            What do you think Shadrach Mesheck and Abbedingo would have to say about your claims? NONSENSE!!!!
            You and others in your camp limit the power of God to your own delusional mind set.

            Sorry brother but your nonsense has irritated me.
            Its sad that you are probably leading a church somewhere.
            I feel sorry for the people you mislead with your utter nonsense.

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 1:56 pm #

            MARK…..I listen to EdWitness, as he is a mature, polite speaker. Whether right or wrong, he gets my ear because his approach is mature, proper and respectful.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 2:48 pm #

            Yes i would agree that he has kept his cool where as most would be cussing me right now…..
            Hats off to you Ed
            My purpose is to provoke people to thought and although most will not admit it, I have found that in my experience a little 60 grit sand paper goes a long way in accomplishing that goal.
            Get over it and pick your Bibles up and start reading Gods word for yourself!!!
            Quit adding and subtracting the WORD of GOD at your own will.

            Take care Robert

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 2:56 pm #

            Mark…Ok…there you go!

            That response to me actually had a respectful tone to it. maybe WE (including myself, I hope) are maturing in Christ.

            Peace.

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 6:07 pm #

            Thank you Robert and God bless you brother.
            Most of what he says, “angels are children”, “we are already in the trib”, etc… is just not scriptural. It makes me wonder why they call themselves “Elijah ministries”.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 6:44 pm #

            It is sad that you resort to wondering what our motivations are and that is a usual tactic of a person who just got whipped in a debate. You keep misquoting me and reading into my text just as you do the scriptures.
            I challenge you to post this whole transcript in public and let your congregations see it in its entirety and let them judge who won this debate.
            My prayer is that the calvary organization will at least open up debate on the subject instead of trying to ridicule those who disagree with them.
            MV TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 4:21 pm #

            Mark,
            That’s funny:-) Your nonsense has no such effect upon me.
            I believe that God will come for us in a pre trib rapture because that is what the scripture says.
            Like I said before. If the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Mt.16:18.
            And the AC makes war with the saints during the trib and overcomes them. Rev.13:7.
            How is it possible to be talking about the same group of people in both of these scriptures?

            ANSWER: IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.
            The only logical answer to this is that the church age believers have been raptured before the trib starts. We have gone to be with Jesus until the end of the trib.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:35 pm #

            brother Ed just look around you man the time of Jacobs trouble has already begun. Just admit it and move on. Your silly pre trib rapture boat has already left the dock without you brother and you are still waiting back at the dock o the bay.
            Waisten time

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 11:21 am #

            You must not be aware of who the true House of Israel is. Ezekiel 37 gives a clear distinction between the HOUSE and the land. The House of Judah and the House of Israel are split and you cannot interchange the two as if they were one. sad that the mainstream cant tell the difference

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 11:24 am #

            You really are confused and in a state Babylon.
            It is sad when the mainstream church cant even tell the difference between dirt and a people.

          • mark November 11, 2016 at 9:04 pm #

            So its on Ed…here is another one…
            The Rapture doctrine debunked part 4

            Scripture reference:

            Revelation 4:1,
            After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

            Common knowledge tells us that John wrote the book of Revelation and that Jesus was the Revelator. So this word “I” is key to understanding who was taken to heaven to be shown things hereafter in this dream. John was the one having the dream and not the Church. There is no article for the ‘Church” here at all. There is no way you can “inject” the Church in here because John is the one being shown the dream.

            So in essence from what I can gather the pre-trib rapture believers interpret this word “I” to be the Church being raptured, or to “come up hither” means a rapture for the Church.
            They also think that the Church isn’t really mentioned after this point in Revelation so that is a clue to them that they will be gone also. The Church is mentioned many times after Revelation 4 and revelation 12 is just one example. Anybody who has read with understanding knows better.

            As you can see this is utter reaching for the stars to back up a false doctrine. No need to go into the Greek at all because this is so blatant a twisting of reality.
            It really comes down to this: WHAT PART OF ….”I”..DONT YOU UNDERSTAND !

            MV 2015

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 12:27 am #

            Mark,
            I always understood it to be a type. Which means that of course it actually happened to John in the passage, and not the church. But, as a type it also has application for the church.
            Get it now?

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 10:12 am #

            Get it?
            You are in serious need of a reeducation in the basics of reading brother Ed.
            How on earth do you get all of that nonsense from the word “I” The subject is not the Church in Revelation 4 it is John being taken to heaven to be shown what must come. There is no mention anywhere in the text of the ‘Church” so YOUR CLAIMS ARE PURE NONSENSE.
            Its hard to believe that I have to interpret this for you and others like you.
            The Church has lost its ability to read.

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 1:53 pm #

            MARK…..Immature sarcasm will not bring attention to your so-called light. It does just the opposite. Turns people off to what you say. All that typing for nothing.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 2:40 pm #

            Sorry brother, no work at all, my book has been done for a while. Just cut and paste.
            I have my sword do you?
            The truth cuts both ways and the scriptures will turn the hearts of the children back to the FATHERS …plural …To the fake father….or the real Father.
            has Jesus become a stumbling block to you?
            If the truth is offensive than so be it

            Come on Robert don’t you have something you really want to say?

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 2:51 pm #

            MARK…i knew you were cutting and pasting….just being a bit facetious with you.

            No one (unless a nut) would take the time to type all of that just to make a non-essential point, I would hope.

            Sell your book yet?

            As to, “do I really have something to say?” No, I really don’t. I do not “debate” scripture. I discuss it, and only with people I respect. And not to be too rude, but, at this point I cannot say that I respect you.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 2:57 pm #

            At 61 Im still a bull in a China Closet.
            34 years of Collage level study with the Elijah ministry
            I have a LiIMOB in front of my name.

            Legend in my own bathroom.

            Would that we could reason in the scriptures together is my greatest hope and prayer.
            MV

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 3:23 pm #

            Mark….LOL..very funny, and humble, I might add (the bathroom comment).

            Peace of God be with you brother.

            I can tend to be a bull in the wrong place, at times, as well.

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 4:11 pm #

            Mark,
            Isaac was a type of Christ because we can now look back at the events and see that it mirrors in many ways the events described in Jesus’ death and what it represents.
            The scripture does not specifically say this, but it can be seen in the events surrounding both Isaac’s close call and Jesus’ death.
            The same can be said of Joshua. He led his people into the promised land just as Jesus has. Joshua is therefore considered a type of Christ. Even though the scripture doesn’t actually say he is a type. Col.2:17

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:30 pm #

            that is such a stretch is isn’t funny. come on man now you are getting ridiculous.

          • mark November 11, 2016 at 9:07 pm #

            “taken out of the way” in context
            The Rapture doctrine debunked part 5

            Scripture reference: 2 Thessalonians: 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
            2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
            > It seemed the first letter had confused many in Thessalonica and Paul hastily wrote this second letter, to clarify the second coming of Jesus Christ.
            3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
            > There is only one “wicked man of sin” or “son of perdition”. Perdition means ‘to perish” and there is only one son of perdition and that is satan himself. That day (second coming) will not come until “AFTER” that wicked man of sin be revealed.
            4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
            5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
            6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
            > The angel Michael is withholding satan in heaven so that he (satan) will be “revealed in his time” and cast down to earth.
            7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
            >Many Christians in the world today are deceived by false doctrine. This “mystery of iniquity” is a mystery to those who haven’t studied to show themselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth. Satan is the mystery of iniquity and he is at work in the church today. “He who now letteth” (Michael holding satan) will let until he be taken out of the way. (satan cast out of heaven to earth).
            8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
            >”Wicked be revealed”> (tribulation of satan) “Whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth”> accomplished by (Two Witnesses and The Elect when they are delivered up)and finally:” With the Brightness of HIS coming”> is the Wrath of God at the Seventh trump in that order. This is a chronology of the end times that most read right over.
            9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
            > Who is HIM? It is Jesus. This text says AFTER the working of satan. This is another obvious clue as to the chronology of Jesus return. It is “after” the workings of satan and not before.
            10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
            > These people did not care about where they got their “truth” from, just as long as it tickled their ears and made them feel good. Most of these Christians read other men’s books about the Lord instead of reading Gods word for themselves.
            11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
            > Do I need to clarify this? Just hope and pray that you are not part of this group that has been sent strong delusion. Study the WORD of GOD for yourself!
            2 Thessalonians is a clarification by Paul about the second coming of Jesus Christ. If there were two comings or an appearance and a coming or a rapture don’t you think the scholar of scholars would have mentioned the word rapture in his letter to Thessalonica?
            Why do you think one of satan’s names is “anti-christ”? If satan came after Jesus return, how would he be able to imitate Jesus, with Jesus here? Playing his role of ant-christ, or instead of Jesus can only be done “before” Jesus comes back in the real second coming. There is no need for an “actor” or a “phantom”, if you have the “real thing” that is already here (Jesus).

            > The misinterpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:7A fundamental mistake is made in their interpretation because they inject the church and the Holy Spirit here where the word “HE’ is used. The subject of this chapter is satans appearance and the chronology thereof. The church or the Holy Spirit; cannot be injected here in place of the anti-christ.
            The “He who letteth” is Michael, not the church. The “He” who be taken out of the way is not the Holy Spirit being taken from the earth; It is SATAN himself being cast to the earth by Michael. You simply cannot “withdraw” the Holy Spirit who is ubiquitous.
            To misunderstand the Word of God so badly and to claim that the Holy Spirit is satan is a grievous error. This type of misinterpretation violates all of the laws of reading a simple novel, let alone the Word of God. You must stick to the fundamentals of reading, Who, What, When, Where and How.
            >Here is what Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 in: Revelation 12: 7;
            And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
            8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
            9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
            10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
            11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death
            Christians will be delivered up to the anti-christ for their testimony and there is no way to escape this fate unless you are already dead. You will not fly away but you will be “snatched away” at His return.
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 12:50 am #

            Mark,
            I am happy to say that you are entitled to your opinion. But, Michael was not given the ministry the church has on the earth. That is to be the salt and light that “occupies until He comes.” The ministry that discourages sinners from remaining in bondage to sin.
            When we are successful we hold back iniquity.

            And I certainly do not believe that satan is the AC.

            “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power,…”

            This beast can not be satan. Because satan is giving him power.

            “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”

            This beast can not be satan. Because they worshipped this beast AND satan.

            “5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
            6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
            7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
            8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

            The beast they worship with satan is the one doing these things here. So he can not be satan either.

            “And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.”

            This can not be satan because he does not ask for worship for himself.

            And the one in vs’s 13-17 can not be satan because he is the one in vs.12.

            The AC is not satan. He is empowered by satan.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 10:02 am #

            Brother Ed;
            You have a “beast system” and the entity of anti-christ confused as many do The beast is a system of government that is given power by satan. This is not my opinion. That is a fact.
            If you and others think you are holding back iniquity your are deceived. The Holy Spirit is the one who is in charge and not the church as you say.
            To inject the Holy Spirit in where satan is being discussed violates all of the laws of reading. The subject of 2 Thessalonians is not the Holy Spirit but the chronology of the return of satan. The subject and the object being satan and not the Holy Spirit. That is what you people do is butcher the word of God to fit your fairy TALE the rapture. You have to twist the meaning of much of Gods word to fit this fake rapture scenario.
            Where do you think the person of satan is right now? He is of course being held in heaven as the accuser of the brethren. If you cannot follow subject and object you will not be able to rightly divide.
            Your response just makes it even more clear how uneducated you really are and your inability to even read the most simple of texts.
            MV

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 1:49 pm #

            Proud and rude much? Not the heart of a true Christian.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 2:33 pm #

            .
            Love you to brother

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 3:57 pm #

            Mark,
            I did not “inject” Him, Paul did. It is the Holy Spirit working through the church that “holds back” iniquity. When Paul says “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”, he is saying that the church is the one that letteth. For the reasons I gave you earlier.
            When we are removed in the rapture, the Holy Spirit will still be here to save those who will be saved. because He is the agent of salvation. The church age dispensation will have come to an end. And the dispensation for finishing the 70 weeks prophesied for Israel will resume.
            Just one more reason the church will not be here.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:12 pm #

            How do you and others interpret these scriptures in the way you do is a 3rd grade error in reading. The subject is satan and his return and not the the church.
            Your argument is just plain nonsense.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 10:37 am #

            Ed here is my work on the anti-christ.
            If you think that satan is going to let anything anybody or anything stop him from playing his last role of this earth age you are sadly mistaken.
            If you understand The dispensations of time and what happened in Revelation 12 when a full one third of Gods children followed satn in the first world age and he is setting up the world for the same “Katubol” or “overthrow” as he did before.
            Your pre tribulation rapture is being used by satan to deceive people into not being prepared for the great deception that is about to take place
            .
            The anti-christ is very simply INSTEAD of CHRIST,. He proclaims to be Christ standing in the Holy place claiming to be god.
            The True Identity and M.O. of satan is found in the word >AntiTo say this in the modern vernacular; Children of God, know that just before the very end of this earth age, satan will come as the (Phantom) Jesus the imposter, the great imitator, one who will deceive the world. He will pretend to be ME (Jesus).
            The second half of this verse states that there will be many Imposters, Imitators’, Fakes, Charlatans, TV preachers who actually imitate the real Lord Jesus. They say; you are healed in the name of Jesus and Jesus never spoke a word to them. They are imposters.
            They try to act like Jesus as they put on side shows to exalt themselves to deceive the people. They place themselves above everybody else because they think they have the same anointing as Jesus Christ “the ANNOINTED ONE. They prance around on the stage with egos that are so swollen they can’t get their head out of their own a>>.
            They fit the category of ANTI-CHRIST to a tee. One of the signs we are close to the end is the very presence of these FAKE JESUS’ everywhere!!!. They are on every street corner in America and the world. Just turn your TV on a Sunday morning and you will see the modern day CIRCUS that is displayed before the entire world. Teachers that have no business teaching or leading, Music that glorifies the world instead of God, people who worship the church building and the pastor and every kind of abomination imaginable in the supposed house of god.
            >>>Signs that your pastor may be an Anti-christ in the true definition Are>>>
            When your pastor or teacher-mentor uses words like>>> I, me, I me, I Mee, money, money, money. Or if he tells you; I am chosen to interpret the Word for you. A pastor that exalts himself is not working for the Lord. A pastor is a servant; he is to pastor the sheep. That means to feed the sheep the WORD of GOD. Every sheep I meet in the churches I go to have been starved to death for the Word of God to the point of famine in the land as Amos 8 states. So much money, So much Famine and ignorance. Who is taking all the money and not giving back the word of GOD??? The leaders in the so called Christian church of America…Shame on you!!!
            Daniel 5: 25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
            26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
            27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
            >This is your epitaph American Church and the world!!!
            1 John 2:22
            Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
            1 John 4:3
            And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
            >Many believe Jesus was imperfect and had second thoughts about going to the cross.
            2 John 1:7
            For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

            >Many do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh within the Christian Church. They are opposed to Jesus whether they know or not. They have a form of Godliness, but deny the power thereof. From such TURN AWAY !!! Come out of her my people. That great whore that sits upon the waters (people) and take not the abominable thing (Fake Christianity).
            The term Anti-christ is only used in relation to the end of this age or time. Nowhere is this term used in the Word of God except the book of John. It is a direct reference to end of time and the role that satan will play at that time which is now. Many scriptures point to this mass deception but the world is unaware of what is about to happen.
            The last role that satan will play is that of the anti-christ or PHANTOM Jesus. Many will think he is the real Jesus and will pray for the mountains to fall on them when they find out they have given suck to satan himself. They worshiped the anti-christ thinking he was God. This is his final role people …wake up and quit chasing the traditions of men. The anti-christ is not a man and he will not come from some ten nation confederacy from Rome or anywhere else in the world. He is in heaven being held by Michael and his angels and the time is soon to come when satan and his angels will be cast to the earth in person to deceive the whole world if it were possible.
            Revelation 12:7;
            And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
            8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
            9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
            Revelation 12: 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
            13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
            14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
            >Time is one month, times is two months and a half time is a half month. 21/2 months.
            Revelation 9. 9 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
            Revelation 8 8 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
            All are references of this anti-christ being cast to the earth in our future. This HALF HOUR is time satan will be here on the earth as the anti-christ in person. Why….? There is silence in heaven because the accuser of the brethren has been cast to the earth to deceive even the elect if it were possible. The silence in heaven is because satan is physically absent from heaven … he has been cast to the earth.
            We are entering the time of the Great Tribulation as I write. Wake up America and the world!!!
            MV 2016 TheRemnantseed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 5:03 pm #

            Mark,
            You said;
            “If you think that satan is going to let anything anybody or anything stop him from playing his last role of this earth age you are sadly mistaken.
            If you understand The dispensations of time and what happened in Revelation 12 when a full one third of Gods children followed satn in the first world age and he is setting up the world for the same “Katubol” or “overthrow” as he did before.
            Your pre tribulation rapture is being used by satan to deceive people into not being prepared for the great deception that is about to take place”

            1 Where did you get the idea that I believed that the church will “stop him from playing his last role”? This is why the church must be gone. Otherwise he will continue to be held back.

            2 I have never read that the angels were God’s “children”. We Christians are God’s children and we are a little lower than the angels. Heb.2:7.

            3 When do you think this rebellion happened where satan and 1/3 of the angels went against god and His angels?

            Blessings:-]

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 10:43 am #

            The deadly wound of Revelation 13
            The beast system that is mentioned in Revelation is a new world order that must come in to place before the appearance of the anti-christ. The birth pains of this new world order are being felt at greater pace than ever before. The world is being manipulated into chaos in the form of economic woes, racial tensions, cultural breakdown of societies, and the moral breakdown like never before. The world is coming apart at the seems- seems that were placed there by God. HIS PLAN WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED no matter what. This current system that is in place must be replaced, in order for the NWO to be put in power. As all of the pawns scurry around to position themselves in the coming meltdown, it is obvious what is going on in the world today.
            This meltdown will be accomplished either by war, economic collapse, or just utter chaos, but it will occur very soon as the NWO is in overdrive. They want to prepare the world for the new leader which is none other than satan himself.
            Once this “NWO” or “beast system” is in place, it is the only time that the deadly wound can occur, then satan will return to the earth to heal the “deadly wound” . Satan cannot return until the NWO is in place and this current system is replaced with the New World Order which mere men have been trying to accomplish for centuries. They are ready to make their move soon. Our lives will never be the same after this “reset” of the whole world system we now see.
            Do not take the mark of the beast or work for his system in the coming days as you will have to worship satan in order to do so.
            There will be not be a 666 stamped on your forehead or anywhere else and no mark in your hand. This is nonsense. Your brain is in your forehead and your allegiance to God or satan is the point.
            What do you us your hands for? To work.
            Who’s hands are yours marked to work for, satan or GOD?
            Are you sealed in your forehead? Do you have the knowledge of the Bible?
            Is your right hand (a metaphor for working) working for God? Or is your right hand working for the world or the devil?
            Who’s side are you on? There is a great deception coming and the world is not prepared for what is to come before the return of Christ Jesus.
            MV TheRemnantSeed
            9-11 2015

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 10:48 am #

            The Vessel and the Oil

            Zachariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden OIL out of themselves?
            Revelation 11:
            4 These are the two OLIVE TREES, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
            Matthew 25:1
            3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no OIL with them:
            >>>All of these verses mention the word “oil”.
            Here is the Greek word for “oil” and notice the ‘El” that is part of the name of God in the original Greek language.
            Strong’s Concordance# 1637 Greek Word for Oil
            elaion: olive oil
            Original Word: ἔλαιον, ου, τό
            Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
            Transliteration: elaion
            Phonetic Spelling: (el’-ah-yon)
            Short Definition: olive oil
            Definition: olive oil, oil.
            Neuter of the same as elaia; olive oil — oil.
            see GREEK elaia
            >>> Olive oil is the oil of our people. It is also symbolic for truth and light, but to take it a step further, it is symbolic for the knowledge you have absorbed into your mind and specifically the Word of God. The words from the pages of the Bible must be absorbed into your mind. They do not do any good unless they are read and understood based on the person’s effort and ability. Think of the vessel as your head with a big funnel on the top where you pour the oil into your brain. No oil. No light. No knowledge of the Scriptures, No Candlestick because you have no oil to light your Candle stick. All of the little bits of scripture and knowledge you have learned about God through the years while reading the Bible are your “oil”. Only you can account for yourself and the knowledge you have accumulated. You cannot pay someone to spoon feed you the Bible, it takes hard work. Many false teachers claim that they can interpret the Bible for you but they are nothing but wolves in sheep’s clothing. There are real teachers out there, but they are far and few between and they do not want or beg for your money.
            >You are responsible for the oil or light that is placed in your Lamp beloved:
            YOU are the Vessel.
            >Your lamp is your Light to the world showing them the way to salvation.
            > Yes…you are the vessel. The oil is your knowledge of God the Father; your lamp is your light to shine that knowledge of the truth to the world. Without any truth your light will not shine to anyone.
            >>>Oil, Truth, Light, Lamp, Candlestick, all have to do with the truths that are found in the WORD of GOD and the ability to shine that truth to a hurting World.
            If you want the Lord to speak to you, then read His Holy Word and He will speak to you as much as you want!!! It’s just that easy beloved. The only way to know your Heavenly Father is to know His Word the Bible. It doesn’t become oil until it is absorbed into your mind and there is no other way. Jesus said “Lo, I come in the volume of the book” He will give you knowledge, but the reverence of God is the beginning of all wisdom. It takes long hours and much of your time and that is exactly what He wants from you beloved. Do not be foolish and think you can just snap your fingers and all of the sudden you are a scholar in the Word of God. If you don’t know His Word, you really don’t know Him and you are just playing games with Him. He knows.
            >>>The word “virgin” would be better understood by saying the word “pure” in your mind when you read this parable. The Lord wants us to be “pure” with Him and to Him.
            >>>The five impure virgins were foolish, but the five PURE virgins were wise.
            >The five foolish virgins had not absorbed the Word of God and barely had enough oil in their vessels to attain salvation; therefore they had no oil in their lamps to share with others. They tried to buy the truth and that also failed. They were kicked out of the wedding because they had married the wrong groom and were with spiritual child for all to see. They barely had enough oil in their vessels, or truth in themselves from reading the Word of God to even show up to the wedding. When they realized what they done by worshiping the imposter groom or fake jesus, it was too late.
            >At the midnight hour Jesus Christ the real Groom appeared in the clouds of Glory with all of his saints to the real wedding. The real Bride is waiting for her husband to come back after being away for over 2000 years and her womb is barren, her garments are pure and white and she is dressed and waiting for her husband.
            >Enter the five foolish virgins. They show up to the wedding with dirty garments and they are also with spiritual child and another one in their spiritual womb. Everyone at the great wedding looks in astonishment as the foolish virgins are told by Jesus the Christ to get away from me I never knew you. Can you imagine the shame? They will pray for the mountains to fall upon their heads at that time. They will be in danger of judgment.
            >>> Go with me now to the “wedding” in a carnal or human analogy:
            You haven’t seen your bride since your engagement which is about 2 years because you were away building her a new house (Mansion) and wanted to surprise her. Just imagine her showing up to your own wedding and she is obviously pregnant. You know you haven’t been with her because you have been “away” building a house for her to go to after the two of you are married. How would you feel? There could be no doubt in your mind that she was with another man and had been unfaithful to you while you were gone. Just Imagine your own bride coming down the isle with a big ole belly stickin out a mile and she is wearing a dirty ole wedding dress with holes in it. Would you want her? I don’t think you would.
            >This is the way God looks at those who are caught worshiping the devil when he comes to the earth as the fake groom the ant-christ.
            >The five foolish virgins did not even know the voice of their Maker their Husband and had not read the great wedding invitation. The Word of God.
            >>> By this you will know that they are my disciples: That they continue in my WORD.
            They are continually in the Word of God studying and not just reading one verse every six months, or listening to a soothsayer blow hot air for an hour every Sunday.
            >>> By this you will know that they are my disciples: that they love one another.
            >>>If you do not have these two traits as a Christian, you are an imposter.
            >Beloved: fill your vessels up to overflowing so that you have a full LAMP of Oil to share with others to keep the oil flowing. Do not hide your LIGHT under a bushel.
            >>>In order to have a Lamp, your Vessel has to be full of truth to overflowing. Otherwise you will have nothing to share with others. A Lamp contains the “extra oil” that you have to share with others. Truth is oil and it will Light the way but it can only flow freely when it is shared.

            Below is the Greek word for VESSEL:
            Strong’s Concordance
            skeuos: a vessel, implement, pl. goods
            Original Word: σκεῦος, ους, τό
            Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
            Transliteration: skeuos
            Phonetic Spelling: (skyoo’-os)
            Short Definition: a vessel to contain liquid, utensil, tackle
            Definition: a vessel to contain liquid; a vessel of mercy or wrath; any instrument by which anything is done; a household utensil; of ships: tackle.
            goods, vessel.
            Of uncertain affinity; a vessel, implement, equipment or apparatus (literally or figuratively (specially, a wife as contributing to the usefulness of the husband)) — goods, sail, stuff, vessel.
            >More examples of these key words contained in scripture about Oil, Candlesticks, Lamps, Olive Trees, Anointed Ones and the truth that is behind the meanings.
            Zachariah 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, what be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden OIL out of themselves?
            13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
            14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.
            Revelation 11:
            4 These are the two OLIVE TREES, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
            >>These are the two witnesses that will make their appearance very soon (Moses Elijah)
            5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
            6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
            > They will not be liked by the world and the heathen. They will smite the earth with all manner of plagues and pestilence and they will cause natural disasters to occur.
            Matthew 25:1
            Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
            2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
            3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no OIL with them:
            >>>The ten virgins are set in a period of time called the ‘end times”. They are in a group of parables that explain the consummation of the end of this age and we are there right now. There has never been a time in history where Christians are so ignorant of their faith in the face of such so much information at their fingertips. So much accumulated knowledge but so much ignorance and flat out laziness on the part of teachers and the laity in the Christian faith. There is truly a famine in the land for the true Word of God.
            >>The biggest obstacle to the truth >>> is those who think they have it +
            >The ten virgins are also symbolic of the lazy Christian throughout history who have sat in a pew all of their life and never took the time to read the Word of God for themselves.
            >>>There is a clear distinction between the knowledge in the Bible and the knowledge in your head. In order for the truth of the Bible to become OIL, it has to be deposited into your brain. Truth is one thing, but to know it is another beloved. Truth will do you no good unless you know it. Many will parish for this lack of knowledge especially now.
            >>>God will speak to you through His Word but you have to read it in order for you to hear it. Many ask the question: why doesn’t God speak to me? This is why; you have to read those words in the pages of the Bible in order to hear the voice of God.
            >The only other way to hear from God is if He speaks to you audibly or in your heart which is very rare. He speaks in many different ways and His sheep know His voice.
            > Knowing the truth is what will set you free, not the truth itself.
            >The five foolish virgins of the end times are symbolic of these lazy Christians who will be wholly seduced by the lies of satan now and when he appears.
            > Most modern day Christians have been taught all of their lives by false teachers. They believe that they will be gone in a rapture before the great tribulation and they will realize that they have been lied to by the workers of iniquity who support and “give suck” to the works of satan by promoting this false doctrine. They will be disillusioned because they will realize that the preacher who taught them all of their life that they would be gone in rapture has lied to them. They will know that the church that they went to for all of these years was really a false church. This will be the time of the “Great Falling Away” or the “Apostasy”. These disillusioned Christians will be easy prey for the anti-christ who could even fool the elect if the time is not shortened by God.
            >>>Are you a “wise virgin” or are you a “foolish virgin”, the choice is yours to make.
            >>>The wise virgin knows the Parable of the ten Virgins
            +The Holy Spirit+ will guide you in all things, but in order for Him to guide you; you have to be “going somewhere” and not just sitting in a pew all of your life, never making an effort to really get to know your Father by studying the Bible or advancing in your faith to show yourself approved.
            Pick up your dusty Bible and let the Lord speak to you today beloved.
            The “Oil” That is mentioned in the parable of the ten virgins is the same “OIL” that the sons of “Oil” (the two witnesses) will be dispensing at their appearance on the earth in person very soon. They will give “end time” instructions to the Elect to give to the people before the end of this age so that they may stand against the fiery darts of the devil. The deception will be strong but the OIL is stronger and truth will prevail through…
            Jesus Christ.
            The Elect will Bruise the head of satan for good.
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 10:50 am #

            The “seeds” of Abraham Isaac and Jacob

            Modern Christianity has not made the clear distinction between the literal seed, or ZERA in the Hebrew and the grafted seed through the Lord Jesus Christ.
            If you are a descendant of the twelve tribes of Israel, you are “not” a gentile.
            All and I repeat, all of the twelve tribes are “not” gentiles. All of the twelve tribes have the distinction of being the chosen seed through Isaac. All are not Jews and there is only one tribe in the twelve that is Judah or the Jews.

            To call a descendant of Isaac a gentile is completely in error, yet modern day theologians can’t make the distinction between Judah and the other 11 tribes.
            So; in essence modern day theology is flawed in much of its interpretation of the Bible and all of the truth written therein. It is sad commentaries when so called theologians cant even tell their congregation who they are literally, or in Christ either. Christianity has been hijacked by a bunch of charlatans and they are in control of the modern day “church in a box.”.

            This untruth is espoused by 90% of modern day Christianity.
            How on earth did this happen? It was written long ago.
            In the New Testament when the word Jacob is used, it is the whole house including Judah (Jews).
            When the word Israel is used, the Bible is referring to the ten tribes that went north after the captivity. At that time the house of Judah and the house of Israel were split into two houses. (Ezekiel 37) There were 200 years between the two separate captivities of Judah to the south and then the ten northern (Samaria) tribes.

            Through Abraham there were two seeds that became scattered all over the world. The seed of Isaac through Sarah and the seed of Ishmael through Hagar. Isaac was the son of promise and Ishmael the Illegitimate son from Sarah’s handmaiden Hagar an Egyptian woman. God blessed both sons but in Isaac was the promise of blessing to the world. Ishmael would be blessed but would be as a Wildman never attaining peace and would always be in a state of chaos.
            Enter Jacob and Esau, Isaac’s seed, Even in Rebecca’s womb they struggled and God said the elder would serve the younger and that she had two nations in her womb.
            There are three nations represented here;

            >Ishmael would become the patriarch of most of all of the Arab nations.
            >Isaac was the father of Jacob who later would become Israel.
            >Esau who was fathered by Isaac would later become Russia.

            We have Represented Islam, Christianity and Communism in the same order.
            All are religions and Socialism is a watered down form of Communism.
            All are the literal seed of Abraham who According to Christian theologians of today, are all of the twelve tribes of Israel are Jews as they claim in Revelation 7-1 through 17 addressing the 144,000. If this were true than the same logic would have to be applied to Ishmael and Esau, all Abraham’s seed. There is no reasonable explanation for spiritualizing one and not the other. The twelve tribes of Israel were all from Jacob who had two wives and two handmaidens, Leah, Rachael and Bilhah and Zilpah. In no way can we assume that all of these children were all Jews, but that is what modern theologians assume. In revelation 7-1-17 these 144,000 are literal seed or posterity, not spiritual. Why would they need to be sealed if these verses were taking about spiritual Israel or Jews which are only one of the tribes? Even the seed of Promise through Isaac must accept Jesus as savior and come in to the knowledge of the truth, or Sealed and this includes the Jews. Enter literal seed or posterity through Abraham and enter spiritual or grafted seed through Jesus.

            The 10 tribes of Israel that were scattered around the world have been responsible for spreading Christianity. Have you ever wondered why America has been so blessed? We are literally made up of the house of Israel. Look at Great Britain, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, on and on, all have promoted Christianity and have been blessed for it.
            The modern church has completely missed the boat on this issue and failed to make the proper distinction between the literal seed, or ZERA in Hebrew and the grafted seed or “spiritual seed” through Jesus Christ.
            One, you are born into and one is by adoption. The most important one is the grafted seed or acceptance that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and available to all of mankind.
            Second, it is also very important to know our literal heritage as a people. Many Americans are from the twelve tribes, including the house of Judah or Jews and our Christian leaders have failed to teach the modern church about this issue. In the verse below it is written that the house of Israel would not even know their Bible heritage and that they are the Literal SEED of Promise through Issac. Isaac’s sons>>> Anglo Saxons. Who went over the Caucus’ mountains, who settled Europe, USA and Canada. That is where the ten tribes are…here and there.

            Matthew 15:24
            I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

            Today, Christians don’t even know who they are in America and I hear it all the time; “why isn’t America mentioned in the Bible? Isaiah chapter 18 goes in to great detail as to who the United States is. The House of Israel and the nation of Israel are completely different.

            The House of Israel is the Christian nations or peoples and the “land” of Israel is the nation of Israel, the home of the tribe of Judah. Simply put, the dirt, or terra firma.
            Jacob’s new name given by God was Israel and it has nothing to do with the Nation or land of Israel. There is a big difference between the land, or, (terra-firma) of Israel and the people of Israel. There were special promises made to the literal seed of promise in Isaac and later through Jacob. If you are unable to separate the “house of Israel” and the land of Israel you will misinterpret most of the promises given to Jacob’s children who are the “house of Israel”.
            Ezekiel 3:4 Then He said to me: “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them.
            5 For you are not sent to a people of unfamiliar speech and of hard language, but to the house of Israel,
            6 not to many people of unfamiliar speech and of hard language, whose words you cannot understand. Surely, had I sent you to them, they would have listened to you.
            7 But the house of Israel will not listen to you, because they will not listen to Me; for all the house of Israel are impudent and hard-hearted.
            Here are the twelve tribes in all of their distinctions.
            Then Jacob called for his sons and said: “Gather around so I can tell you what will happen to you in days to come.
            2“Assemble and listen, sons of Jacob;
            listen to your father Israel.
            3“Reuben, you are my firstborn,
            my might, the first sign of my strength,
            excelling in honor, excelling in power.
            4Turbulent as the waters, you will no longer excel,
            for you went up onto your father’s bed,
            onto my couch and defiled it.
            5“Simeon and Levi are brothers—
            their swordsa are weapons of violence.
            6Let me not enter their council,
            let me not join their assembly,
            for they have killed men in their anger
            and hamstrung oxen as they pleased.
            7Cursed be their anger, so fierce,
            and their fury, so cruel!
            I will scatter them in Jacob
            and disperse them in Israel.
            8“Judah,b your brothers will praise you;
            your hand will be on the neck of your enemies;
            your father’s sons will bow down to you.
            9You are a lion’s cub, Judah;
            you return from the prey, my son.
            Like a lion he crouches and lies down,
            like a lioness—who dares to rouse him?
            10The scepter will not depart from Judah,
            nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet,c
            until he to whom it belongsd shall come
            and the obedience of the nations shall be his.
            11He will tether his donkey to a vine,
            his colt to the choicest branch;
            he will wash his garments in wine,
            his robes in the blood of grapes.
            12His eyes will be darker than wine,
            his teeth whiter than milk.e
            13“Zebulun will live by the seashore
            and become a haven for ships;
            his border will extend toward Sidon.
            14“Issachar is a rawbonedf donkey
            lying down among the sheep pens.g
            15When he sees how good is his resting place
            and how pleasant is his land,
            he will bend his shoulder to the burden
            and submit to forced labor.
            16“Danh will provide justice for his people
            as one of the tribes of Israel.
            17Dan will be a snake by the roadside,
            a viper along the path,
            that bites the horse’s heels
            so that its rider tumbles backward.
            18“I look for your deliverance, Lord.
            19“Gadi will be attacked by a band of raiders,
            but he will attack them at their heels.
            20“Asher’s food will be rich;
            he will provide delicacies fit for a king.
            21“Naphtali is a doe set free
            that bears beautiful fawns.j
            22“Joseph is a fruitful vine,
            a fruitful vine near a spring,
            whose branches climb over a wall.k
            23With bitterness archers attacked him;
            they shot at him with hostility.
            24But his bow remained steady,
            his strong arms stayedl limber,
            because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob,
            because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
            25because of your father’s God, who helps you,
            because of the Almighty,m who blesses you
            with blessings of the skies above,
            blessings of the deep springs below,
            blessings of the breast and womb.
            26Your father’s blessings are greater
            than the blessings of the ancient mountains,
            thann the bounty of the age-old hills.
            Let all these rest on the head of Joseph,
            on the brow of the prince amongo his brothers.
            27“Benjamin is a ravenous wolf;
            in the morning he devours the prey,
            in the evening he divides the plunder.”
            28All these are the twelve tribes of Israel, and this is what their father said to them when he blessed them, giving each the blessing appropriate to him.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 11:44 am #

            The Power of satan
            As the anti-christ
            Many modern theologians fail to make the connection between the anti-christ and satan and scurry around looking for a man to arise from some kingdom somewhere. The anti-christ is not a man; he is satan himself claiming to be God as 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 states. The name anti-christ is only used 5 times in the entire Bible in John. It is a specific reference to his role as the Phantom Jesus to deceive the whole world if it were possible. A mere man could never fulfill this role as the fake jesus, only the devil himself will perform this final act as jesus at the end of this age. The entities below are all one in the same and the roles that satan has played for thousands of years and even in the first world age or cosmos.
            Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
            >Satan the anti-christ cast to the earth
            Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men
            Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
            14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
            15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
            16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
            17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
            >The locust army
            18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
            Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
            >The first rider on the white horse is the ant-christ. He is wearing a turbine and carrying a fake cheap fabric imitation of the rainbow around his head as the 12th imam.
            Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
            13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
            >Again a reference to the anti-christ being cast to the earth
            Revelation 8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
            >Symbolic for 2 ½ months which is half of the hour of temptation which is five months of the rule and rein of the anti-christ on the earth at the end of this age.
            Revelation 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
            11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
            >Wormwood is another name for satan. He again is being cast to the earth in person as the anti-christ.
            And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
            >Satan cast to the earth as anti-christ written over and over but many fail to make the connection between the two.
            11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
            12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
            13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
            >The Church is the woman in latter times and Mother Israel is the woman before Christ.
            14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
            >The beast is the anti-christ system in place. The NWO
            Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
            Revelation 12: 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him
            Luke 10: And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
            2 Thessalonians 2 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
            >The description of satan below who is the anti-christ
            Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
            14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
            15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
            16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
            17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
            18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
            19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
            >Know who your enemies are and also know who your friends are.
            Do not get in the way of the plan of God.
            … also never underestimate your enemies.
            MV 2016 TheRemnantseed

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 12:34 pm #

            Ed
            This is a referendum on the doctrine of one man> Chuck Smith

            The rapture doctrine as it is used by calvary and others is the biggest lie in modern church history.
            Calvary has been the main purveyor of this so great a lie.

            We at the Elijah ministries have been made aware of the fact that the we are in the second stage of the locust army’s development. We have already entered into the great tribulation of the ant-christ and in our estimation we are about to enter into the third stage of the devourer which is one of the names and roles of satan.
            The sheep at cavary and others will be easy prey for the anti-christs lies claiming that he is Jesus because they have been taught to fly away before he comes.

            There is no logic in claiming satan comes after Jesus trying to imitate HIM if HE HAS ALREADY been here!!! This deception can only occur BEFORE Jesus gets here

            The anti-christ appears at the sixth trump and Jesus Christ appears at the seventh
            Trump and it is just that simple Ed.
            There is no second seventh trump or a 6 and a half trump, there is only one seventh trump.

            The words appearing and coming are one in the same in the Greek language so this claim is just nonsense.

            Ed…
            Its time for you and others to jump ship off of the rat-pure boat as it has already sunk.
            You will now be ruptured when satan gets a hold of you and others.

            Calvary will never admit that they have been so wrong for so long and will never change even if the truth is staring you all right in the face….
            Good luck with your pre tribulation rapture or rat-pure.
            My prayer is that all of you will wake up before it is to late.
            MV 2016TheRemnantseed

          • mark November 11, 2016 at 9:15 pm #

            Ed I could sense in the body of your response you thought I was lying about my “book” So here is another one that is Truth
            The prophet Ezekiel speaks to
            The USA the modern day
            House of Israel

            The Angel of Lord appeared to the prophet Ezekiel many times. When the term Angel of the LORD is used in the KJ version Bible it is speaking of the presence of the LORD Himself. At one time the Lord grabbed Ezekiel by a loch of his hair and pulled him up into the heavens to show him a vision of the future. Many of the prophesies that are given to Ezekiel were yet in the future from his day and even to ours, but God also showed Ezekiel what the ancients of the House of Israel did behind the secret chambers in the past as well. The Lord first appeared to Ezekiel in a highly polished bronze vehicle that had His throne aboard this vehicle and also had the four faces on the sides of the vehicle that represent the Twelve tribes of Israel.
            Ezekiel was a prophet to the whole House of Israel including the House of Judah but I will concentrate on a prophesy that was given to the House of Israel of today. Many are unaware of the fact that most of the “Twelve Tribes of Israel” are right here in the USA
            Modern day Christianity is in complete denial of this fact because of out and out ignorance. They mistakenly place all of the twelve tribes into one basket of Jews which makes no sense at all when you look at the Abraham covenant. The Lord told Abraham that his seed would be as numerous as the stars of Heaven and they would also be scattered throughout the world. Ezekiel is speaking to those LOST SHEEP of the HOUSE of ISRAEL that is the USA and many other countries where the House of Israel resides.
            Much of modern day Christianity can not tell you who you are and can not interpret scripture accurately because of the confusion as to where the House of Israel is and who they are. Therefore they misinterpret much of the Bible because they confuse the gentiles and the House of Israel and also mix the House of Judah and the House of Israel as if they were one. They are so confused about this subject that it borders on stupid and there is no other way to describe it. One of the saddest things I see in my travels to churches is for a pastor to stand up in front of his congregation and make the claim that they are all gentiles when in reality many within his congregation are actually from the House of Israel. Beware of this grievous error if you are a pastor as God will hold you accountable for every idol word spoken from the pulpit.
            There is a specific prophesy given to Ezekiel concerning the false prophets of today and yet future from today as well and here it is;

            Ezekiel 8:6 He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.

            >Ezekiel was taken to the secret chambers of the future “sanctuary” and shown the abominations they perform behind closed doors. Judgment starts at the pulpit and as you can see God is not happy with His children and especially the so called leaders in the Christian church of today.
            Ezekiel 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD’s house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

            >>>To turn your back to the east is to turn your back on God and to top it off these men worshiped the sun as well. The modern day sunrise service comes to mind when the modern day church has its Ishtar egg rolling contest and practice the modern day version of fertility rights in the house of God on the high day of Christianity; Passover.

            >These twenty five men are representative of the modern church and make no mistake about it. They conspire behind closed doors on how to better take your money and deceive you into thinking you are going to a church.

            18 Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.

            >>>There is coming a time in the very near future when God will no longer tolerate what is going on in the modern day church of today. These next verses are for today-now and these 6 men and the one with fine linen and an inkhorn that is leading them is none other that Jesus Christ. These six men have both a slaughtering and a destroying weapon at their side and are chosen by God to destroy false doctrine with the Sword of the Lord which is the Word of God. They are also instructed to “slaughter” or scatter the congregation of lies and the judgment of these men will begin at the pulpit.
            Ezekiel 10:9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.
            2 And, behold, SIX MEN came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a SLAUGHTER weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.
            3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with White Linen, which had the writer’s inkhorn by his side;
            4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
            >The Lord said Mark those who abhor evil and stand for good with a mark or TAV in Hebrew to separate them from the rest.
            5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
            >Smite with the Word of God
            6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
            >They stared at the sanctuary and smote all with the Word of God
            7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
            >They slew the city with the truth for the entire world to see.

            Ezekiel 12:26 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying.
            27 Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off.
            28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.
            > They say the Lord will never come and He doesn’t see us in our sin.
            9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.
            10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.
            11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
            Ezekiel 11
            11 Moreover the spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of the LORD’s house, which looketh eastward: and behold at the door of the gate five and twenty men; among whom I saw Jaazaniah the son of Azur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people.
            2 Then said he unto me, Son of man, these are the men that devise mischief, and give wicked counsel in this city:
            3 Which say, It is not near; let us build houses: this city is the caldron, and we be the flesh.
            4 Therefore prophesy against them, prophesy, O son of man.
            5 And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.
            6 Ye have multiplied your slain in this city, and ye have filled the streets thereof with the slain.
            >>>Ezekiel is given instructions to3 , prepare thee stuff for removing, and remove by day in their sight; and thou shalt remove from thy place to another place in their sight: it may be they will consider, though they be a rebellious house.
            4 Then shalt thou bring forth thy stuff by day in their sight, as stuff for removing: and thou shalt go forth at even in their sight, as they that go forth into captivity.
            5 Dig thou through the wall in their sight, and carry out thereby.
            6 In their sight shalt thou bear it upon thy shoulders, and carry it forth in the twilight: thou shalt cover thy face, that thou see not the ground: for I have set thee for a sign unto the house of Israel.
            5 Dig thou through the wall in their sight, and carry out thereby.
            6 In their sight shalt thou bear it upon thy shoulders, and carry it forth in the twilight: thou shalt cover thy face, that thou see not the ground: for I have set thee for a sign unto the house of Israel.
            7 And I did so as I was commanded: I brought forth my stuff by day, as stuff for captivity, and in the even I digged through the wall with mine hand; I brought it forth in the twilight, and I bare it upon my shoulder in their sight.
            8 And in the morning came the word of the LORD unto me, saying,
            9 Son of man, hath not the house of Israel, the rebellious house, said unto thee, What doest thou?
            10 Say thou unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; This burden concerneth the prince in Jerusalem, and all the house of Israel that are among them.
            27 Son of man, behold, they of the house of Israel say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off.
            28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.
            MV2016TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 11, 2016 at 9:33 pm #

            Like I said…I will debate anybody you can bring to the table anytime.
            Ill even come to your church.

            Bring Don Stewart. I would love to debate him. He has a high IQ but has misplaced his IQ when it comes to scripture.

            All in love. But all in disciple All in Apostle.

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 1:36 pm #

            Mark,
            Why would you want to debate someone about the rapture? First of all, it is not a salvation issue. And second it is fact that it indeed will happen. The only question is when it will happen. Third, if you know God’s expressed purpose for His church and the difference between the dispensations of God, you know the church will not be here for the time of Jacob’s (Israel) trouble.

            Post as many pages of your “book” as you want to and it still won’t change any of that. Maybe that is why you are having a problem understanding the timing of the rapture? Because you didn’t start with these.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 2:29 pm #

            Ed
            The narrative you use is so narrow and its sad to say, Ive heard it a thousand times.
            You mention Jacobs trouble as if it were some mysterious event.
            When the Bible speaks of Jacob it is always speaking of the “Whole House of Israel” after the rejoining of the tender twigs of the house of Judah and and the House of Israel. Read it for yourself in Ezekiel 37:16.
            Jacob is also in reference to the tribes before their desperation.
            If you can not tell the difference between a Jew and a gentile or a Dannite and a Bejnimite, you are lost in the scriptures.
            Why do you think Paul himself made the distinction between the two.in Romans 11:1 ? Many think Paul was a Jew but not so. He was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin.
            It is ironic that you would pose this question to me Ed. The second coming is the greatest event that has ever happened to mankind save Jesus.

            If you and others like you show up to the wedding with dirty filthy garments on, Jesus will say “get away from me Never new you”.
            The only way to this is “before” He gets here.
            You went to the wrong wedding and wed the wrong groom.
            You and others like you are part of the great whore that sits upon the waters of the end times because you promote and “give” “suck” to the works of darkness in most cases in ignorance..
            I care about all of the souls that are being deceived and my heart grieves for them.
            My motivation is out of an earnest love for the brethren and not to argue.
            If the shoe fits wear it.
            signed
            baited and love it
            MV 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 6:10 pm #

            Mark,
            Why do you call yourselves “Elijah ministries”?

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 6:56 pm #

            Why do you put “blessings” at the end of a bated question?

            You underestimated me from the start. You were posing questions that I had already answered but you refused to read all of what I wrote.
            By then I could already ask your own questions for you because I have done this so many times
            You see Ed i know the truth and I also know the doctrine of calvary like no one you’ve met before.
            But you on the other hand do not know the truth so it is foreign to you and others in your organization..
            That gives me a complete advantage over you and anyone in your organization.
            My point is not to prove I am right but to disseminate truth.
            I challenge you to post this whole transcript in public and let your congregations see it in its entirety and let them judge who won this debate.
            My prayer is that the calvary organization will at least open up debate on the subject instead of trying to ridicule those who disagree with them.
            MV TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:10 pm #

            Because we have the truth just like Arbys has the meat.
            Elijah has already come and gone.
            This is your Bible brother and the one you been teachin from has been “Tampered with”
            Here are blatant examples:
            Tampered With
            > Chapter 13 of the book of Ezekiel speaks to the House of Israel in the latter days and even now. All of the Churches in America and the world fall under the prophetic words that were given to Ezekiel at the time. This chapter is very controversial and many so called scholars mistakenly believe that this chapter is written only to the Jews. But it is written to the whole House of Israel including all of the tribes that have been scattered all over the world today and not just the Jews.
            >Chapter 13 of Ezekiel is so controversial that the new translations (NIV,NAV) and others completely change the meaning of these verses in a deliberate attempt to change the Word of God. These attempts are mainly to promote the false rapture doctrine and hide the fact that Ezekiel was prophesying against this “fly away” doctrine in a time that we live in today. No other time has the fly away doctrine ever been taught before.
            >Here are the blatant examples of “adding” men’s words to the scriptures in the modern times we now live in: Notice that both examples involve the eschatology of Christ return in the end times.
            The first example is that of Ezekiel speaking of a time far from his future to right now.
            No other time in Christian history has there been a doctrine that has been taught and called the “Fly Away” doctrine of the rapture.
            >Just look at how bad the scriptures have been “tampered with” down below;
            The first example is the KJV which is the proper way to render the Hebrew;
            Ezekiel 13:20 the KJV of the Bible:
            Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
            Now here is Ezekiel 13:20 in the NIV NAS:
            20 “ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against your magic charms with which you ensnare people like birds and I will tear them from your arms; I will set free the people that you ensnare like birds.
            >This should be obvious to everyone especially a so called pastor-teacher. This is so blatant and obvious that it stinks to high heaven. “Lucky Charms? “Birds? Sounds like a fairy tale tail doesn’t it?
            >>>That is just what the rapture doctrine is…a fairy tale.
            Now look at the “Scofield” bible for an even more blatant example of changing the Word of God. It is no accident that both of these examples deal with the chronology of the return of Jesus Christ at the end of days. This is the devil himself at work as iniquity does already work itself in the earth.
            (First the Wheat and then the Tares) according to Scofeild.
            >Scofield in an obvious attempt to make the pre-tribulation rapture fit into his eschatology, completely reverses Matthew 13:30.
            Instead of the tares being gathered first he states that the wheat will be gathered first. Completely reversing the order in which the tares and wheat will be gathered. Then he of course gives Thess 4:14-17 as a reference and John 14-3 which neither gives any chronology as to when the events will take place. Then he tries to make a connection between the two based on a false premise that is completely misleading.
            Twisting the scriptures and violating Revelation 22, Scofield is guilty as charged.
            Schofield had no formal degree, his personal life was an absolute mess and yet his bible is very popular among the mainstream deceived church. What a sham!!!!!!
            > The works of Scofield are trash and have lead many good Christians astray from the true Word of God and these fake bibles should be thrown away.
            >Most of the new translations are so watered down that the message is hardly the same and with each new translation the Word of God becomes more and more diluted.
            Beware of false teachers!
            MV 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 7:43 pm #

            Mark,
            I read and quote directly from the KJV. I do not study Scofield. Not that I know that there is anything wrong with it. I just do not study his writings.
            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:17 pm #

            second page

            >The Dome of the Rock has been trodden under foot and is still in control of the gentiles (muslims) so essentially some of Jerusalem is still in the control of the gentiles and it just happens to be the Dome of the Rock.
            Revelation 9:3 And there came out of the smoke LOCUSTS upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
            7 And the shapes of the LOCUSTS were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were CROWNS like gold, and their faces were as the faces of MEN
            >There can be no doubt that these above are not bugs, but they are men likened unto LOCUSTS and this is a description of who the locusts army is. They are men and they are not bugs or some freaky creatures that people have dreamed up in their minds. They act like locusts but they are not locusts. If we know how locusts act then we should know the Islamic hoards will act before they act if we use the Bible as our battle plan.
            8 And they had HAIR as the HAIR of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
            > Another interesting note: The horses “tail” or “hair” is a symbol for ranking in these militant sects of the Wahabi, branch of the Sunni Islam, they include Bin laden,Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, Ayan Al-Zawahri to name a few of these Arab Cleric’s.Three horses tails and your at the top.
            9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
            >Sounds like the sound of a huge army that is coming to kill steal and destroy all on the earth at the end of days. Many could be killed as much as one third of the world’s population could be wiped out in this epic battle.
            >Nahum gives a revealing description of the way this LOCUST ARMY operates so just read below like it was tomorrow’s newspaper and then look at what is happening in the world today and you have a perfect description of a terrorist attack that is happening all over the world 2016.
            Nahum 3
            17 Thy CROWNED are as the LOCUSTS, and thy captains as the great grasshoppers, which camp in the hedges in the cold day, but when the sun ariseth they flee away, and their place is not known where they are.
            >They come out of nowhere and they attack and then they retreat and repeat. They are scattered among the nations and no man can gather them. They live in the dust (desert) and after they attack they disappear and can not be found. Their army can not be identified in the normal sense, so there you have THE LOCUST ARMY
            Nahum 3:
            15 There shall the fire devour thee; the sword shall cut thee off, it shall eat thee up like the cankerworm: make thyself many as the cankerworm, make thyself many as the LOCUSTS.
            16 Thou hast multiplied thy merchants above the stars of heaven: the CANKERWORM spoileth, and fleeth away.
            > The above is a perfect description of the way they attack and then flee away like the cowards they really are.
            Revelation 9:
            3 And there came out of the SMOKE LOCUSTS upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
            >The word smoke is symbolic for lies. The religion of islam will lie at any cost to the infidel as they say. They will lie through there teeth to accomplish their goals and that is what you see today when they speak. They are liars in the name of alla .There is no truth in them; only lies lies lies. The very word “Arab” means; to lie in wait, ie ambush as in below;
            ARAB> Strong’s Concordance# 694 in Hebrew
            : to lie in wait
            Original Word: אָרַב
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: arab
            Phonetic Spelling: (aw-rab’)
            Short Definition: ambush lie in ambush, lay lie in wait A primitive root; to lurk — (lie in) ambush(-ment), lay (lie in) wait.
            ARBE: (a kind of) locust Strong’s#697 in Hebrew
            Original Word: אַרְבֶּה
            Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
            Transliteration: arbeh
            Phonetic Spelling: (ar-beh’)
            Short Definition: grasshopper, locust From rabah; a locust (from its rapid increase) — grasshopper, locust.
            ORBAH Strong’s Concordance# 698 in Hebrew
            : an artifice
            Original Word: אָרְבוֹת
            Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
            Transliteration: orbah
            Phonetic Spelling: (or-ob-aw’)
            Short Definition: trickery Word Origin from arab
            an artifice
            trickery (1).
            The word CROWN as it is used in Revelation 9:7;
            Strong’s #4735 in Greek Στέφανος stephanos {stef’-an-os
            From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown. OR A TURBINE
            Revelation 9:7 And the shapes of the LOCUSTS were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were CROWNS like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
            Revelation 6:
            2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a CROWN was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
            >The four stages of the LOCUST below;
            To both the “house of Israel” and the “house of Judah”:
            25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
            Four stages of the “Locust”, in the Hebrew says:

            Gnawer’s remnant

            Swarmer eats

            Swarmer’s remnant

            Devourer eats

            Devourers remnant

            Consumer eats

            1. Gnawer, pupa stage, the Palmerworm Gazam H1501 gâzâm gaw-zawm’ From an unused root meaning to devour; a kind of locust: – palmer-worm.

            2. Swarmer , imbro stage, the Locust Arbeh H697 ‘arbeh ar-beh’ From H7235; a locust (from its rapid increase): – grasshopper, locust.

            3. devourer, Cankerworm Yelek H3218 yeleq yeh’-lek From an unused root meaning to lick up; a devourer; specifically the young locust: – cankerworm, caterpillar.

            4. Consumer, Caterpillar Hasil H2625 châsı̂yl khaw-seel’ From H2628; the ravager, that is, a locust: – caterpillar. H2628 châsal khaw-sal’ A primitive root; to eat off: – consume.

            One other very important word in this “revealing” who the Locust Army is-is this word “Crown” in Rev.9:

            7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were CROWNS like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.

            Strong’s #4735 Στέφανος stephanos {stef’-an-os
            From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown.
            SATAN WILL BE WEARING THE SAME CROWN THAT THE LOCUST ARMY IS WEARING AT THEIR APPEARANCE. HE IS THEIR 12th IMAM.
            18 Thy shepherds slumber, O king of Assyria: thy nobles shall dwell in the dust: thy people is scattered upon the mountains, and no man gathereth them.
            Their king is Abaddon in the Hebrew and Apollyon in the Greek. Satan is his name.
            They are here and more and more are coming all over the world and the world is being set up right now for this great and epic battle.
            >>>barrack husien obama is one of the top generals in the LOCUST ARMY if he knows it or not. How sad is that. The American people elected the enemy for their president. Americans are so deceived and naïve and just plain lazy that they will be easy prey for the terrorists when they come for them on our soil. They won’t believe it until they themselves are actually taken hostage by the enemy before they wake up.
            The Bible predicted this would happen thousands of years ago and the Locust have been used by GOD as a tool of His Divine Judgment and chastisement throughout history.
            This essay is basically the battle plan of the enemy that I have laid out and I believe if the American people will repent and turn from their wicked ways that the Lord will hear our prayers and protect us from this massive army and heal our land. If not, America is in deep trouble and the LOCUST ARMY is going to an all out attack mode on western civilization and Christianity is their main target. They absolutely hate Christians and America and all she stands for in the world.
            They are poised for their next attack …be ready. Be vigilant. Repent all day long if necessary. America is in grave danger!!!!!!!!!!
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:20 pm #

            You will be held accountable for all in your flock
            You need to prepare them for this and not to fly away.
            The Hideous nature of Islam revealed in the
            The Bible by the prophets in;
            Revelation 9:5, Joel 2, Nahum 3 and Ezekiel 23

            The LOCUST ARMY (islam) spoken of by the prophets in the Bible is the largest army in history that is organized but not assembled together. My estimation is about two hundred million men, women and children make up this LOCUST ARMY of radical Islamic terrorists comprised of about one point eight billion muslims total in the world. Never before has mankind had to face the LOCUST ARMY (islam) in all of his history on a scale of this magnitude. This army is now in almost every country in the world except for the smart ones and they are making their final plans for the great jihad against all of the earth. Most of the world is so blind to what is happening but the Bible is very clear as to who these people are. They are described in great detail by using the Locust as an example of the way they operate. They display all of the characteristics of the Locust in every way. They operate their armies in the same way as the locust. The Bible describes what they are wearing during these attacks and training and even in their daily lives. The uniforms in the ranks of the military are even described to a tee. The life cycle of the locust is about 17 years and I believe this current life cycle of the end times LOCUST ARMY (islam) is about over. There are four stages in the development of a Locust before adulthood. We are in the second stage right now as I write which is the SWARMER stage. Look around the world and what do you see? Swarming refugees everywhere disguised as refugees but they are really soldiers. Its like a movie being played out but it is real people!!! The next stage of the Locust ARMY is the Devourer Stage and this is one of the names of satan himself. I believe when the LOCUST ARMY enter into the devourer stage is the time right before the entrance of the anti-christ (satan in person). He will arrive on the earth in peace and prosperity and not war as many think and he will heal the deadly wound that was inflicted upon the beast system by the LOCUST ARMY and the Kenites. Yes ladies and gents…our system is a beast system and has become Babylon (Confusion) The whole world is confused and delusional. The refugees you see on TV and all over the world “are” the SWARMERS and are part of the LOCUST ARMY… they are not refugees. Almost all of them are part of the LOCUST ARMY, including men, women and children, young and old and anyone else that will join that can breath.
            The Bible mentions four super natural kings that will be loosed at the river Euphrates in the end times and I believe that they have been “loosed” already. They are the ones who have mastered this “refugee” program that is nothing more than an invasion force to conquer the world and bring in the twelfth imam which is the anti-christ. Here are the verses that speak of these evil angels that are were bound and loosed at Euphrates.

            Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
            15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
            Revelation 16:12
            And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

            >Might be prepared for battle. Their goal is to conquer Israel in war. The “land of Israel” and the HOUSE of ISRAEL which is much of the so called western world including the USA. >

            >The river Euphrates is drying up at this very moment in time because of severe drought.
            The kings of the east are the kings of the Middle East and arise from one of these; Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt etc.

            >Below are verses in the Bible that reveal the very nature of the LOCUST ARMY in great detail. Joel gives the four stages of the LOCUST which will reveal the four different stages in the development of the Islamic armies.

            1. Joel 1:4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the LOCUST eaten; and that which the LOCUST hath left hath the CANKERWORM eaten; and that which the CANKERWORM hath left hath the CATERPILLAR eaten.
            2. Joel 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the LOCUST hath eaten, the CANKERWORM, and the CATERPILLAR, and the PALMERWORM,

            .

            >This is God speaking here to His children saying that He will restore all of the destruction and mayhem that the LOCUST ARMIES have caused all over the world.
            Joel mentions all four stages of this ARMY and God Himself calls it an Army by using the words “MY GREAT ARMY WHICH I SENT AMONG YOU”. Just look at the words …”AMONG YOU”…NORMAL ARMIES ARE NOT “AMONG YOU”, THEY ARE IN FRONT OF YOU OR BEHIND YOU, BUT NOT; “AMONG YOU”. I BELIEVE THIS IS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO THE CURRENT STEALTH ARMY THAT IS “AMONG US” ALL OVER THE WORLD RIGHT NOW!!!
            MAKE NO MISTAKE; THIS IS THE ARMY OF GOD USED BY HIM TO CHASTIZE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL TIME AND AGAIN FOR THEIR DISSOBEDIANCE.

            The “Gnawers” have already been born and the swarmers (above) are hard at work “swarming” all over the world. Look for the “Devourer” in the next fulfillment of the third stage of the “locust army.” Satan is called the “devourer” in Malachi 3:11. Could this mean that satan appears at the third stage of the “locust armies” development? ….We will soon find out,.
            Ezekiel 23:15 Girded with GIRDELS upon their loins, exceeding in DYED ATTIRE upon their heads, all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity.
            >Is there any doubt in your mind who these verses are describing? This a perfect description of what most muslims wear. Any doubt as to where the land of Chaldea is?

            Ezekiel 23:42 And a voice of a multitude being at ease was with her: and with the men of the common sort were brought Sabeans from the wilderness, which put bracelets upon their hands, and beautiful CROWNS upon their heads.
            >A Sabean –is a Drunkard. This is the same “crown” or turbine that almost all of the muslims wear. This word Crown appears over and over again in Gods word.

            Revelation 9:5 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men FIVE MONTHS.
            Revelation 9:10 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man
            >Five months is the length of the season of the LOCUST which is May through September. This will most likely be the time that the anti-christ will appear on earth.

            Rev 11
            2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
            next page please

      • mark November 11, 2016 at 9:21 pm #

        Here is the true chronology of the:
        The Great Wedding
        The second coming of Jesus Christ is approaching fast and the world is unaware of how this will take place. To explain this “second coming” the Bible uses a wedding between a man and a woman as an example of how this ‘second coming” will take place.
        2 Corinthians 11:2
        For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I that may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ .
        Jesus is the Groom, Christian believers are the Bride.
        If Jesus is Lord in your life, then you are the Bride of Christ and don’t let anyone tell you any different.
        In every sense of the word our relationship with God is like that of a Bride and Groom but only in a spiritual sense. We are espoused to one husband and that husband is Jesus Christ. He fully expects His bride to be a chaste virgin waiting in earnest for HIS return at His second coming.
        Isaiah 54:5;
        For your Maker is your husband, YHVH of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.”
        Your relationship with God should be the same as your relationship with your spouse in almost every way but in a spiritual sense. God does not like it if you are unfaithful to Him just as your spouse would not like it. God wants you, He desires you and He wants a deep relationship with you. He wants to hear you tell Him your deepest darkest secrets, even though He already knows them. This to me is so amazing that the God of the universe wants to have a relationship with me and looks at me as if I were His Bride.
        Dear one, He loves us so much that we can not fathom the depths of His love. He is jealous over you with a Godly jealously that only He can have and it is such a privilege to have Him think of you and me in this way. Every time you pick up His love letter and read it the Bible; it warms HIS HEART.
        >Many ask the question; how do I lose my virginity in a spiritual sense?
        Answer: you lose your virginity by being unfaithful to God or by worshiping other gods-idols. Anything you put before God. The main emphasis on remaining a chaste virgin in these verses is to stay focused on the end times and recognizing that there is a fake bride groom that will try and steal your virginity by enticing you worship him as god.
        (If you can lose your virginity, you must also be able to keep it as well.)

        >Why is there so much emphasis on remaining a “chaste virgin” in Gods word?
        > A chased virgin is a Christian who has never worshiped a false god. They are chaste after Christ and not the world. They are pure and undefiled. They will not worship the anti-christ or satan or marry the wrong bride groom. They know the voice of their redeemer and the voice of the fake groom as well. They are wise virgins who have studied to show themselves approved.
        .
        >In the end times before the great wedding you can lose your virginity by worshiping the anti-christ who is the fake groom. Yes that is what I said. The anti-christ is the fake bride groom and he will come knocking on your door and try to deceive you by asking for your hand in marriage. Anti-christ is simply the fake christ. No more, no less. He will imitate the real Christ in every way. Many will take him as their husband and lose their virginity as the five foolish virgins did because they did not know the voice of the true Bride Groom. They did not read about the great wedding invitation sent them by almighty God in His Holy Word. The key to understanding his role as anti-christ is in the word ‘anti”
        >>>ANTI- very simply means INSTEAD OFOr PHANTOM, even an exact COPY. You must understand this beloved, or you will be deceived by the FAKE GROOM
        6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
        1 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
        >>>If you can still pinch yourself and feel it, the real Groom has not returned yet.
        22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to SEDUCE, if it were possible, even the elect

        >The world right now is being set for the entrance of the fake bride groom who is none other than the anti-christ. Many Christians will marry him in ignorance and will actually “give suck” to his work. Yes that is what this term means. What happens when you give birth to a baby? (Spiritual baby)
        Well….first off, you would have had to have gotten pregnant. (Spiritually pregnant) and second; when the baby comes as a result of this spiritual intercourse or impregnation, you will give suck (nurse) to that baby to keep it alive. The same goes for false doctrine, if you teach in error false doctrine to others you are “giving suck” to the work of satan and keeping it alive.
        To explain this even further the analogy is that you have married the wrong groom and you are also telling others that he is the real groom; therefore you are responsible for them marrying the wrong groom and yourself as well.
        This is the time when many will open the door to the great wedding and show up to the great wedding pregnant with someone else’s baby and expect to enter the great wedding, but Jesus will say “Get away from me I never “knew” you’ (A deeper study if you want to look at the word “knew”)
        One of the biggest purveyors of this fake groom and fake wedding is the Christian believers that promote the false doctrine of the “rapture”.
        In essence this silly doctrine and that is what it is ladies and gents, it is a fake wedding invitation sent by none other that satan himself. Most of the world will take satan to wife and this false doctrine of the rapture will be responsible for many marrying the wrong groom.
        In these carnal terms God is trying to relay His love towards us and He uses a wedding between a man and a woman to explain this so great a love.
        The great wedding of the end times will happen just as the Bible says…
        Below are scripture references to this great wedding and what I said above will hopefully put this in perspective for you.
        Mathew 22:
        8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
        Revelation 16:
        15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
        >Don’t get caught naked in bed with satan. In a Spiritual sense. Don’t worship him.
        Matthew 24:19
        And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
        Luke 21:23.
        “Woe to those who give suck in those days.”
        >Do not get caught doing the work of satan or giving suck to his work; do not promote false doctrine such as the rapture which completely twists the chronology of the great wedding and falsely instructs people to marry the first groom that appears.
        Luke 29:32
        For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
        >Keep you spiritual womb clean and barren and wait for the true Bride Groom and do not be deceived.
        Isaiah 54:
        1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
        >Your spiritual womb (brain) is desolate because you have been true to God your husband and you have not received the mark of the beast. You are waiting in earnest for your maker thine Husband the Lord and you are a chaste virgin.
        6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
        2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
        >satan wholly seduced Eve and will do the same to you by claiming he is your bridegroom, do not be deceived.
        4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
        >The rapture doctrine is preaching another jesus and will lead you to the devils wedding instead of the Great Wedding of Jesus Christ.
        13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
        14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
        >This angel of light is none other than the fake bride groom satan the anti-christ. Would you marry him?
        15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
        >How would you feel if you had been away for 2000 years and came back home only to find your wife pregnant with a child from another man? Or even in bed with another man? I don’t think you would be happy. He will not be happy about it either.
        >There is a reason why God uses a wedding as an example for His second coming. It is hidden to many but in plain sight to others. Only those who study to show themselves approved will have read the real wedding invitation and know when the real wedding actually takes place. They will be anticipating the great wedding and they will be ready.
        Many false prophets will tell you that the first groom is jesus …Do not be deceived!!!
        One of the main reasons for this wedding analogy is for the children of God to be ready for the anti-christ who is the fake groom. There would be no need to remain a virgin if there were no anti-christ or fake christ that actually comes before the real Groom Jesus claiming to be Jesus. This is a very specific prophecy given by God to those who are willing to study and dig deep to find out when the real Groom comes.
        There would be no need to remain a virgin if the real Jesus Christ was coming first in the Great wedding. That is why this analogy is used to place an emphasis on the fact that the Phantom Jesus or Fake Jesus or Fake Groom will come first before the real groom for a test…Will you pass this test of the ages? Will you know the voice of thy maker? Or will you be wholly seduced just as Eve was in the garden of Eden.
        MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

        • Robert Trohon November 12, 2016 at 1:53 am #

          Mark…listen up brother. This blog subject is about Brodersen splitting from CCA. You are off-topic. And you sound angry and a bit pushy (I could be wrong on that). Anyways…no one is reading your long, long, long attempt at convincing us that pre-trib is wrong. It isn’t going to happen brother, so let it go. Relax. Calvary Chapel has always leaned towards pre-trib. Anyways..time will tell who is right and who is wrong. The subject is NOT Essential. I think you just like to argue (debate? as you put it).

          Pastor Robert Trohon (Calvary Chapel…at least for now)
          La via-The Way
          Managua, Nicaragua

          • mark November 12, 2016 at 8:06 am #

            What I posted is very relevant to the subject if you actually cared enough to read the posts and give an honest answer you would be responding in a different way. You have the same “know it all” spirit as the rest in calvary and that is why I am testy. You are part of the problem just as the others I encounter in calavary.

            All of you will go down with the rapture boat in the end because it is false doctrine.
            If you are current with world events you would be discerning the times we live in and know that the great tribulation of anti-christ has already started as we are in the second stage of the development of the locust armies.

            The next stage is the devourer stage and that is one of the names of satan.
            We at the Elijah ministry are all wondering why your organization doesn’t recognize this fact when it is as plain as day.
            One other thing brother if you mistake passion for anger then that is on you. If you can read the posts that I posted and still believe in pre trib rapture then you my friend have been sent strong delusion.

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 3:38 pm #

            Mark,
            See, that’s what I am talking about. You call the pre trib rapture the “strong delusion” that is spoken of in 2Thes. and because of this believe that some that claim the name of Christ are unsaved because of it.
            There is not one scripture that supports your position here. And without solid evidence you should never claim someone has been sent the strong delusion of 2 Thes.
            You are a mess theologically, but that does not mean you are not going to heaven. It means you need to stop assuming this and assuming that when trying to understand what the scriptures say.
            If you have truly been born again then you are going to heaven when you die, no matter what goofy thinking you might incorporate with your faith in Jesus along the way. But, there is no reason to be goofy in your theology. He has given us His book. The Bible. Believe what it says and only what it says and your theology will come in line with the clear teaching of scripture.
            One thing for sure, we are not IN the trib yet. These are the birth pangs. The trib is 1260 days, 42 months, time times and 1/2 a time. It begins with the revealing of the AC.
            And if someone disagrees with me on this it doesn’t mean that they or I are deluded. It is not a salvation issue.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:28 pm #

            So now I have to explain the concept of being born again as you say? You are so deceived and all we talk about is milk that you cannot understand.

          • mark November 12, 2016 at 8:20 am #

            Robert listen up brother.
            You have a “pastor in front of your name but no degree or knowledge to back up what you claim to be.
            Just like many in calvary you are just a “Chuck clone”

            You tell me to relax as if I were hyperventilating or something.
            Far from the truth brother. You may not see it but others in your organization are starting to see that the great tribulation has already started.
            You and others do not discern the times we arel iving in and are not preparing their flocks for the coming slaughter.
            Instead you at calvary teach your congregations to “fly away” in the great escape called the rapture and then mock those of us who actually know the truth.
            signed;
            Relaxed

          • mark November 12, 2016 at 9:23 am #

            Robert
            I called in a question one day in 2011 to Pastors perspective and I spoke to Chuck and Don directly.
            I posed a baited question to him acting dub as I always do.
            I asked him how old the he thought the earth was.
            He said “The earth is six thousand years old and to just have faith and do not question the bibles accuracy.
            I live near the La Brea tar pits in California and they pull stuff out of here that is much older than six thousand years a bunch of times.
            Carbon dating is a proven science but yet your organization claims the earth is only six thousand years old.
            I could go on and on about the false doctrine that is so prevalent in your organization but all of you “know it all”
            You are in the church of Laodiceia

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 3:43 pm #

            Mark,
            The scientists at AIG have voluminous information that shows that the dating methods you refer to are severely flawed. This is just one example of how flawed your research is. Both theologically and scientifically.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:07 pm #

            Show me your data Ive seen it probably.
            Our ministry has a 14 thousand year old footprint that was found in New Mexico. Dinosaur bones are so much older than 6 thousand years
            come on Ed really?
            sense you thought I wrote my book backwards here is the first chapter
            The word of God is true and coincides with modern science.
            COMPLETE DOCUMENTATION FOR 3 HEAVEN AND EARTH AGES.
            THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.”
            The earth is millions of years old. Carbon dating the dinosaur fossils, shells and many other clues tell us this fact. Most modern day Bible thumpers try and tell you the earth is only 6000 years old and completely ignore all of the empirical evidence that is all around them. Christianity looses its credibility when it makes such outrageous claims as they say: “just have faith”. I have faith and I have Biblical evidence that coincides with science. The earth is millions of years old.
            To arrive at the true meaning of this expression, we must note there are two words translated “foundation” in the New Testament:
            (1) themelios, and
            (2) katabole.
            The Noun, themelios, occurs in Luke 6:48, 49; 14:29. Acts 16:26. Rom. 15:20. 1Cor. 3:10, 11, 12. Eph. 2:20. 1Tim. 6:19. 2Tim. 2:19. Heb. 6:1; 11:10. Rev. 21:14, 19. It is never used of the world (kosmos) or the earth (ge). The corresponding Verb (themeliou) occurs in Matt. 7:25. Luke 6:48. Eph. 3:17. Col. 1:23. Heb. 1:10 and 1Pet. 5:10. The verb is only once used of the earth (ge). Heb. 1:10. A comparison of all these passages will show that these are proper and regular terms for the English words “to found”, and “foundation”.
            The Noun, katabole, occurs in Matt. 13:35; 25:34. Luke 11:50. John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. Heb. 4:3; 9:26; 11:11. 1Pet. 1:20. Rev. 13:8; 17:8; and the corresponding Verb (kataballo) occurs in 2Cor. 4:9. Heb. 6:1; and Rev. 12:10. A comparison of all these passages (especially 2Cor. 4:9, and Rev. 12:10) will show that kataballo and katabole are not the proper terms for founding and foundation, but the correct meaning is casting down, or overthrow.
            Consistency, therefore, calls for the same translation in Heb. 6:1, where, instead of “not laying again”, the rendering should be “not casting down”. That is to say, the foundation already laid, of repentance, &c., was not to be cast down or overthrown, but was to be left — and progress made unto the perfection. Accordingly, the Noun katabole, derived from, and cognate with the Verb, ought to be translated “disruption”, or “ruin”.
            The remarkable thing is that in all occurrences (except Heb. 11:11) the word is connected with “the world” (Gr. kosmos. Ap. 129. 1), and therefore the expression should be rendered “the disruption (or ruin) of the world”, clearly referring to the condition indicated in Gen. 1:2, and described in 2Pet. 3:5, 6. For the earth was not created tohu (Isa. 45:18), but became so, as stated in the Hebrew of Gen 1:2 and confirmed by 2Pet. 3:6, where “the world that then was by the word of God” (Gen. 1:1), perished, and “the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word “were created (Gen. 2:4), and are “kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment” (2Pet. 3:7) which shall usher in the “new heavens and the new earth” of 2Pet. 3:13.
            “The disruption of the world” is an event forming a great dividing line in the dispensations of the ages. In Gen. 1:1 we have the founding of the world (Heb. 1:10 = themeliou), but in Gen. 1:2 we have its overthrow.
            This is confirmed by a further remarkable fact, that the phrase, which occurs ten times, is associated with the Preposition apo = from (Ap. 104. iv) seven times, and with pros = before (Ap. 104. xiv) three times. The former refers to the kingdom and is connected with the “counsels” of God; the latter refers to the Mystery (or Secret. See Ap. 192) and is connected with the “purpose” of God (See John 17:24. Eph. 1:4. 1Pet. 1:20).
            Ample New Testament testimony is thus given to the profoundly significant fact recorded in Gen. 1:2, that “the earth became tohu and bohu (i.e. waste and desolate); and darkness was on the face of the deep”, before the creation of “the heavens and the earth which are now” (2Pet. 3:7).
            THAT WAS CUT AND PASTE DIRECTLY FROM COMPANION BIBLE
            HERE ARE SCRIPTURES FOR REFERENCE TO THE FIRST WORLD AGE
            ALL REFERENCES TO A DIFFERENT “COSMOS”
            It is CALLED HYPER- DISPENSATIONALISM
            Isaiah 45:
            18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (a REFERENCE BACK TO GENESIS 1:1-2)
            19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth.
            Jeremiah 4:
            22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
            23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. ANOTHER REFERENCE TO GENESIS 1;1-2
            24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
            25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
            26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
            27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
            28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
            2 Peter 3:
            5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (ANOTHER REFERENCE TO GENESIS 1;1)
            6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
            7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (NOAH’S FLOOD.)
            8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
            Proverbs 8:
            22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
            23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
            24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
            25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
            26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
            27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
            28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
            29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
            30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
            31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
            John 17
            24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
            Ephesians 1:
            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            Matthew 13:
            35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
            Luke 10:
            50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
            Revelation 13:
            8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
            Revelation 17:
            8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
            Peter 1:
            Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus
            Matthew 25:
            Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
            Peter 1:
            Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
            Psalm 18:
            Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
            Genesis 27:
            41:And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother
            Jacob.
            Obadiah 1:
            18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.
            Malachi 1:
            2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,
            Malachi 1:3
            And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
            Romans 9:13
            As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
            Hebrews 12:
            16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
            Jeremiah 1
            5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
            Isaiah 45:
            1 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
            Revelation 12:
            4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
            Job1:
            6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
            Job 2:1
            Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
            Job 38:7
            When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
            2 Samuel 2:
            28 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
            2 Samual 2:
            16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.
            Psalm 18:
            7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
            Psalm 82:
            5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
            Psalm 102:
            25 Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands
            Psalms 104:
            5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
            Isaiha 40:
            21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
            Isahih 48:
            13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
            Isaiah 51:13
            And forgettest the Lord thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?
            Isaiah 51:
            16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
            Zachariah 12:
            1The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
            Hebrews 1:
            10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
            MV 2015 TheRemnantseed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 7:07 pm #

            Mark,
            Did that footprint come to you with a date stamped on it? No. Then you are trusting in man’s ability to date them over God’s word.

            Here is a conclusion reached in a chapter in the book “The New Answers Book 1”. If you go to their website answersingenesis.org you will be able to read the entire article and the whole book online if you want to. And much, much more.

            “In 1997 an eight-year research project was started to investigate the age of the earth. The group was called the RATE group (Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth). The team of scientists included:

            Larry Vardiman, PhD Atmospheric Science
            Russell Humphreys, PhD Physics
            Eugene Chaffin, PhD Physics
            John Baumgardner, PhD Geophysics
            Donald DeYoung, PhD Physics
            Steven Austin, PhD Geology
            Andrew Snelling, PhD Geology
            Steven Boyd, PhD Hebraic and Cognate Studies

            The objective was to gather data commonly ignored or censored by evolutionary standards of dating. The scientists reviewed the assumptions and procedures used in estimating the ages of rocks and fossils. The results of the carbon-14 dating demonstrated serious problems for long geologic ages.

            Another noteworthy observation from the RATE group was the amount of 14C found in diamonds. Secular scientists have estimated the ages of diamonds to be millions to billions of years old using other radiometric dating methods. These methods are also based on questionable assumptions and are discussed elsewhere11. Because of their hardness, diamonds (the hardest known substance) are extremely resistant to contamination through chemical exchange. Since diamonds are considered to be so old by evolutionary standards, finding any 14C in them would be strong support for a recent creation.

            The RATE group analyzed twelve diamond samples for possible carbon-14 content. Similar to the coal results, all twelve diamond samples contained detectable, but lower levels of 14C. These findings are powerful evidence that coal and diamonds cannot be the millions or billions of years old that evolutionists claim. Indeed, these RATE findings of detectable 14C in diamonds have been confirmed independently.12 Carbon-14 found in fossils at all layers of the geologic column, in coal and in diamonds, is evidence which confirms the biblical timescale of thousands of years and not billions.

            Because of C-14’s short half-life, such a finding would argue that carbon and probably the entire physical earth as well must have a recent origin.13

            CONCLUSION
            All radiometric dating methods are based on assumptions about events that happened in the past. If the assumptions are accepted as true (as is typically done in the evolutionary dating processes), results can be biased toward a desired age. In the reported ages given in textbooks and other journals, these evolutionary assumptions have not been questioned, while results inconsistent with long ages have been censored. When the assumptions were evaluated and shown faulty, the results supported the biblical account of a global Flood and young earth. Christians should not be afraid of radiometric dating methods. Carbon-14 dating is really the friend of Christians, and it supports a young earth.”

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:36 pm #

            OK
            Our pastor found this footprint along side of dinosaur prints. He has a cast mold of this footprint directly from the site. He also has a Woolly Mammoth tooth that was found in the Tundra of Alaska with a buttercup in its mouth.
            The sled dogs ate the flesh of a 14 thousand year old Mammoth.
            Do you not believe the Bible?
            Here are the scriptures brother. Either you believe or you don’t
            HERE ARE SCRIPTURES FOR REFERENCE TO THE FIRST WORLD AGE
            ALL REFERENCES TO A DIFFERENT “COSMOS”
            It is CALLED HYPER- DISPENSATIONALISM
            Isaiah 45:
            18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (a REFERENCE BACK TO GENESIS 1:1-2)
            19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth.
            Jeremiah 4:
            22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
            23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. ANOTHER REFERENCE TO GENESIS 1;1-2
            24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
            25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
            26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
            27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
            28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
            2 Peter 3:
            5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (ANOTHER REFERENCE TO GENESIS 1;1)
            6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
            7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. (NOAH’S FLOOD.)
            8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
            Proverbs 8:
            22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
            23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
            MV TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:42 pm #

            oh really ? Assumptions?
            where did you get your gas this morning?
            Are you really on earth? hello?
            Dating dinosaur bones may be inarticulate to a degree but not by millions of years.
            You and others are in complete denial of reality….
            Whats the difference give or take a few million?
            Your claiming six thousand ?
            Your arguments are preposterous

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 7:52 pm #

            Mark,
            These scientists have the same education from the same schools as those you are listening to. Yet they come to different conclusions based on exactly the same evidence. How is that possible?
            Because one believes the Bible literally and the other does not.

            Give a fair hearing to the evidence presented by these wonderful Christian men and women at Answers in Genesis.org. It will help you to be able to believe the Bible again as it is written. And not according to man’s wisdom as you have been spouting in all of your comments.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:59 pm #

            i have seen both and the creation research team is bias and they are Chuck clones.
            you forget i have first hand knowledge of Chucks teachings on this.
            carbon dating is not totally accurate but there assumptions are so far off it is ridiculous
            How can ca rbon dating be as far off as you claim?
            nonsense

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 8:03 pm #

            Mark,
            You do know that carbon dating can only date to a few thousand years, right? So how can they use it to say something is millions of years old?

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 8:06 pm #

            thats what i call cracker jax science.
            What about the cores taken in Alaska?
            Ed you look so ridiculous trying to hold up this nonsense
            Spare yourself
            and so will I.

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 8:09 pm #

            Mark,
            I repeat, You do know that carbon dating can only date to a few thousand years, right? So how can they use it to say something is millions of years old?

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 14, 2016 at 10:35 am #

            Your claims about carbon dating go against all of science and very few subscribe to what calvary teaches. CSI is and off chute of calvary and based on faulty data to uphold a false narrative.
            The Bible tells us that earth is millions perhaps billions of years old if you know how rightly divide it.

            Here is wisdom and let him with ears to hear ….HEAR

            From space you can see that earth was once a giant single land mass and at one point in history the earth went through a great change and the single land mass was separated into the continents we see today. There was a firmament surrounding the earth that was taken away. The earth was taken off its original perfect accesses to know what is 23.8 degrees. The earth is off 23.8 degrees and this is what causes all of the wicked weather in this carnal age. The magnetic fields of the earth are off because of the earth being off access.
            In the history of the earth there was a great dividing line that separated the dispensations of time called the great overthrow or casting down of satan.
            Katubol in the Greek and this the word used to describe this event.
            Every time the Bible uses the terms “foundation of the world’ in the English these English words are taken from the Geek word Katubol.

            This by no means is the flood of Noah. This description can only fit one event and that is the great overthrow of satan. Needless to say God was angry.

            This fact is hidden to most but the Katubol is the description of this great event when the World was literally ripped apart and split into the continents we now see today.
            God destroyed every living thing and completely rearranged the earth in order to start over in this the carnal age of mankind. It grieved God to put us in the flesh in what is now the COUNCILS of GOD and not the original PURPOSE of GOD.
            The original PURPOSE of GOD is found in Job when the “sons of GOD sang for joy together in the first world age.
            The very same thing is about to happen in this age as before and mankind is completely unprepared for the great deception of the anti-christ who is the Phantom jesus.

            Calvary is steeped in false doctrine and this is another example of the nonsense that you people teach.
            The earth is millions of years old and the Bible coo berates this history if you understand it.
            This Eaon is about six thousand years old but the earth is millions of years old and to not rightly divide the two is a grievous error.
            There again most of you at calvary have not mastered reading and writing yet, let alone trying to interpret prophesy and Gods Holy WORD.
            Im not sorry for the harsh language I use because it is time to quit playing games with God and get real.

            Paul himself said; “I am crude of speech and a little rough around the edges but I can pull the carpet out from under any of these theological hacks at any time I want.
            I am in no way comparing myself to Paul but nevertheless, I can pull the theological carpet out from under anyone in your organization period.

            My earnest prayer is that calvary and others will “come out of her” the great whore that has sat on the waters for way to many years.

            MV 11/14/2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 11:14 am #

            mark,
            It is actually your flawed acceptance of the evolution theory from so called science that is deceiving you into believing satan’s lies.
            When you say something like this, “Your claims about carbon dating go against all of science and very few subscribe to what calvary teaches. “, you show your complete lack of Biblical understanding and science for that matter. And AIG is not an offshoot of Calvary Chapel. Ken Ham started it and he has put together some of the best scientific minds there are for this creation ministry.

            You can keep your human wisdom. I will believe God’s word over man’s word every time.
            Here is an example of the wisdom of God vs the wisdom of man.
            Either the rock record is the evidence of millions of years, or it is largely the evidence of Noah’s Flood. It can’t be both. If we believe the earth is billions of years old and shows no sign of a worldwide Flood, then that belief contradicts the biblical account of Noah. If we accept God’s testimony regarding the Flood, we cannot logically believe in millions of years.

            You therefore are contradicting the Biblical account. But, that is ok if you are not a believer anyway. Because you are already on your way to hell. In that case the true age of the earth is the least of your problems.

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 9:42 am #

            mark,
            It is actually your flawed acceptance of the evolution theory from so called science that is deceiving you into believing satan’s lies.
            When you say something like this, “Your claims about carbon dating go against all of science and very few subscribe to what calvary teaches. “, you show your complete lack of Biblical understanding and science for that matter. And AIG is not an offshoot of Calvary Chapel. Ken Ham started it and he has put together some of the best scientific minds there are for this creation ministry.
            You can keep your human wisdom. I will believe God’s word over man’s word every time.
            Here is an example of the wisdom of God vs the wisdom of man.
            Either the rock record is the evidence of millions of years, or it is largely the evidence of Noah’s Flood. It can’t be both. If we believe the earth is billions of years old and shows no sign of a worldwide Flood, then that belief contradicts the biblical account of Noah. If we accept God’s testimony regarding the Flood, we cannot logically believe in millions of years.
            You therefore are contradicting the Biblical account. But, that is ok if you are not a believer anyway. Because you are already on your way to hell. In that case the true age of the earth is the least of your problems.
            >You as usual need to be taught to read. I did not say I subscribed to evolution I merely said that I agree with the conclusions of carbon dating. You and your cracker jack scientists claim that carbon dating can only go back thousands of years are loony tunes.
            The rock is only a result of a recreated earth!!! Get a clue. The current “earth age” is about 14,000 years old.
            You Ed cannot tell the difference between dirt and a dispensation of time. Sad
            Now you have to resort to making claims that I am not saved and going to hell.
            You are so typical of the baby Christians I meet and debate about the Bible.
            MV TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 11:30 am #

            Mark,
            No, it is you that relates to others as a small child would. Instead of real evidence, you offer your opinions non stop. And when others do not agree with you, you throw a tantrum like a spoiled child.
            Others at this site have noticed the same thing. It is very unbecoming for a Christian to behave in such a way. Your “book” that you continue to paste here is nothing but your opinion backed by virtually zero scriptural evidence. This is why after reading a couple of your looooong comments, no one reads them anymore.
            You are unable to understand even the simplest statements. For instance, I did not say you were an unbeliever. I said “if” you are. But, you interpret it that way because you are always in resist/fight mode instead of learning/humility mode. That doesn’t mean you have to agree. It means you need to support your position with the scripture if you want others here to take you seriously.
            The proof for this is the style in which you wrote your “book”. It’s long on opinion and short on evidence to support it. And always followed with a slam for those who do not agree, as if they are too stupid to get it.
            When we disagree on issues that are not matters of salvation, which the rapture teaching is, we share our views without resorting to what leads to the rejection of the individual. In this way we are able to learn something from each other that helps us in our relationship with God. Even when we do not agree.
            This is how the maturing believer behaves him/herself. Our speech is always to be seasoned with grace. By all means tell the truth as you see it. But, when met with opposition you need to reference the scriptures for support of your position because it and not your opinion has the final say for the Christian. Instead of resorting to ridicule.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:37 am #

            Who is throwing a tantrum?

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:57 pm #

            Mark,
            “Who is throwing a tantrum?”

            Right 😛

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:40 am #

            All of your nonsense has been summarily distressed. Get over it Ed you lost a debate that you had no businesses being in.
            You are an armature in about the fourth grade.

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:41 am #

            Ya distressed is what you make me. It is hard to believe that there is such ignorance in the church

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:43 am #

            Christian Imposters
            2 Corinthians 11:
            13 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
            >Paul is saying I instruct you because I love you.
            12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
            >Paul is saying I know more about the Word of God than any of these mucky ducks and I can put them all to flight at any time I choose.
            13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, TRANSFORMING themselves into the apostles of Christ.
            >Many claim to be apostils but they are only disguised as apostils and are liars. They transform or disguise themselves and God had nothing to do with it.
            14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is TRANSFORMED into an angel of light.
            >They imitate satan in every way and the same word is used for both. Satan who disguises himself as an angel of light and also the false teachers of the end times who disguise themselves as apostils but are liars.
            15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
            >They have their day coming.
            Here is the Greek word for “Transformed”
            metamorphoó: to transform transformed Strongs#3339
            Original Word: μεταμορφόω
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: metamorphoó
            Phonetic Spelling: (met-am-or-fo’-o)
            Short Definition: I change the form, transform
            Definition: I transform, transfigure.
            change, transfigure, transform.
            From meta and morphoo; to transform (literally or figuratively, “metamorphose”) — change, transfigure, transform.
            see GREEK meta
            see GREEK morphoo
            Strong’s Concordance #3320 Greek word for Transformed
            mesotoichon: a middle wall
            Original Word: μεσότοιχον, ου, τό
            Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
            Transliteration: mesotoichon
            Phonetic Spelling: (mes-ot’-oy-khon)
            Short Definition: a middle wall, partition wall
            Definition: a middle wall, partition wall, barrier.
            a middle wall, dividing wall
            From mesos and toichos; a partition (figuratively) — middle wall.
            see GREEK mesos
            see GREEK toichos
            Strong’s Concordance#3445 Greek word for Transformed.
            morphoó: to form
            Original Word: μορφόω
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: morphoó
            Phonetic Spelling: (mor-fo’-o)
            Short Definition: I form, fashion, shape
            Definition: I form, fashion, shape, mold.
            form.
            From the same as morphe; to fashion (figuratively) — form.
            see GREEK morphe
            metamorphoó: to transform #3339
            Original Word: μεταμορφόω
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: metamorphoó
            Phonetic Spelling: (met-am-or-fo’-o)
            Short Definition: I change the form, transform
            Definition: I transform, transfigure.
            change, transfigure, transform.
            From meta and morphoo; to transform (literally or figuratively, “metamorphose”) — change, transfigure, transform.
            see GREEK meta
            see GREEK morphoo
            Of the seven Churches in the book of Revelation there are only two that Jesus Christ found no fault with. 2 out of 7. Roughly 71% of all churches today are in error as well.
            MV2016TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:54 am #

            The word WORLD

            Strong’s Concordance

            aión: a space of time, an age
            Original Word: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
            Transliteration: aión
            Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-ohn’)
            Short Definition: an age, a cycle of time
            Definition: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

            age, course, eternal, forever
            From the same as aei; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future) — age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare chronos.
            see GREEK aei
            see GREEK chronos
            A definite distinction of time periods, or ages that are in reference to the earth.
            Three earth ages and three heavenly ages.
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 3:20 pm #

            Mark,
            “The word World…….
            Three earth ages and three heavenly ages.”

            Ridiculous! You didn’t even get the word right. What you gave definitions for was the word age. Not world.

            And what you have deduced (your opinion) from the definitions is ridiculous as well. Because the scripture tells us exactly when “in the beginning” was. Approximately 6,000 years ago.

            Gen.5:3,4- “When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:”

            This tells us that from the sixth 24 hour day of God making the heavens and the earth and all that is in them Adam lived 930 years. Simple math will help you determine how old God says everything is.
            But, you keep listening and believing the world’s wisdom. It will take you right where Paul said it will. Into being an enemy of God. Just like all the other evolutionists are.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 12:17 pm #

            The expression the “appearing”

            Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance # 3700 in Greek
            appear, look, see
            optanomai: to appear
            Original Word: ὀπτάνομαι
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: optanomai
            Phonetic Spelling: (op-tan’-om-ahee)
            Short Definition: I appear, am seen
            Definition: I appear, am seen (by), let myself be seen (by).
            A (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai (op’-tom-ahee); which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of horao; to gaze (i.e. With wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from blepo, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from eido, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while theaomai, and still more emphatically its intensive theoreo, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and skopeo a watching from a distance) — appear, look, see, shew self.
            The same could be said in dreams and visions. He can appear or come to you in a dream or literally at any time or any place He chooses.
            There seems to be some kind of appearance or observance of Jesus in the “Clouds” before His feet touch the Mount of Olives. It is not clear weather it is in the flesh or in the spirit as to when this will take place. Will we see with our spiritual eyes? Will we see Him in the flesh before we are changed into our spiritual bobies?
            The words appear and come seem to mean the same thing. They are both mentioned in verse 30 of Matthew 24. They are not two different events but one in the same. One cannot happen without the other.
            There is a timeframe for this I am sure. It will happen in the moment in the twinkling of an eye. Or we could say…..very fast. ? Only time will tell us.
            Mark Vaughn 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 3:21 pm #

            Mark,
            “Could, maybe, might….”

            No thank you. I will believe in what is.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 12:21 pm #

            Jesus coming-Jesus appearing

            The common misconception among many rapture believers are these two words “appearing and “coming”. The two words are almost identical in their meaning in the Greek but yet the pre tribulation rapture believers claim that there is a difference between the “appearing and the coming” of Jesus Christ.

            Here is an analogy that will put there claims to rest once and for all.
            Christians from all over the world have given account of Jesus appearing to them in a dream or even a vision for centuries.
            God is ubiquitous so He doesn’t need to “come to you to appear to you because He is already there. He is everywhere all the time. This is a false view of the very nature of God that is contrary to the real “second coming”. God appears to people all the time so this is not exclusive to the end times as rapture believer’s claim.

            If the Lord comes to you He will appear to you, however he does not need to come to you to appear to you because He is already standing right in front of you.
            This logic of placing a ubiquitous God over here and over there is completely contrary to His nature.
            Coming or appearing do not apply to a God who is everywhere. We are only made aware of his coming or appearing at His will.

            His will is that all the earth sees Him in the clouds with glory at His second coming as He returns with all of the saints of the past. This is a one time event and there is no dividing this event up into two comings or an appearance and a coming. There is only one seventh trump and not two. There is only one second coming but there have been many appearances of Jesus Christ to the people throughout the centuries.

            The expression “Coming”

            Strong’s Concordance # 3952
            parousia: a presence, a coming
            Original Word: παρουσία, ας, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: parousia
            Phonetic Spelling: (par-oo-see’-ah)
            Short Definition: presence, a coming, arrival, advent
            Definition: (a) presence, (b) a coming, an arrival, advent, especially of the second coming of Christ.
            HELPS Word-studies
            3952 parousía (from parōn, “be present, arrive to enter into a situation”) – properly, coming, especially the arrival of the owner who alone can deal with a situation (cf. LS). 3952 (parousía) is a “technical term with reference to the visit of a king or some other official, ‘a royal visit’ ” (Souter) – “hence, in the NT, specifically of the Advent or Parousia of Christ” (A-S).
            Matthew 24:
            30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

            The expression the “appearing”

            Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance # 3700 in Greek
            appear, look, see
            optanomai: to appear
            Original Word: ὀπτάνομαι
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: optanomai
            Phonetic Spelling: (op-tan’-om-ahee)
            Short Definition: I appear, am seen
            Definition: I appear, am seen (by), let myself be seen (by).
            A (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai (op’-tom-ahee); which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of horao; to gaze (i.e. With wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from blepo, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from eido, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while theaomai, and still more emphatically its intensive theoreo, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and skopeo a watching from a distance) — appear, look, see, shew self.
            The same could be said in dreams and visions. He can appear or come to you in a dream or in person at any time or any place He chooses.
            MV 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 3:34 pm #

            Mark,
            “The common misconception among many rapture believers are these two words “appearing and “coming”. The two words are almost identical in their meaning in the Greek”

            I don’t have a problem with these two words. There are two. Once for His bride. Another at the end of the trib.
            See, no problem 😀

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 12:28 pm #

            Revelation 6:2 The Anti Christ Appearance
            The “Bow” of the Anti Christ
            TOXON a cheap fabric imitation

            Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a (bow); and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
            BOW
            #5115 Greek
            Strong’s Concordance
            toxon: a bow
            Original Word: τόξον, ου, τό
            Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
            Transliteration: toxon
            Phonetic Spelling: (tox’-on)
            Short Definition: a bow
            Definition: a bow.
            From the base of tikto; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric) — bow.
            see GREEK tikto
            In other words: A cheap fabric imitation of the real Rainbow.
            The real Rainbow that appears around the Throne of God when He appears at the Seventh Trump can not be imitated but satan will try. He is already using this sacred bow in defiance of God in the homosexual military movement. Their flag is an abomination to our LORD and the homosexual flag is nothing but a cheap fabric imitation of the real Rainbow…..Here is the REAL RAINBOW in Revelation 4 at the Seventh trump.
            Revelation 4:3 And HE that sat was to look upon like a Jasper and a Sardine stone: and there was a RAINBOW round about the throne, in sight like unto an Emerald.
            The flag of satan is already flying in the Untied States of America even on the White House the day of the SCOTA ruling on same sex marriage.
            I hope all Americans can see the correlation of this homosexual flag being displayed as it has in the past few years. You are being programmed to receive satan himself, the one who introduced the homo flag to the homosexual community.
            This is a direct spit in Gods eye if you will, because the Rainbow is not only a sign and covenant that God will never flood the earth again, but also a sign that will be used by satan as a cheap fabric imitation of the real thing in his appearance at the sixth trump.
            Only the real Lord will appear at the seventh trump, with the real BOW around His throne and not before.
            The CROWN satan will be wearing on his head, along with the fake bow.
            CROWN the one satan will be wearing
            Strong’s CROWN #4735 Στέφανος stephanos {stef’-an-os
            From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown.
            Ezekiel 23:
            15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in (DYED ATTIRE UPON THEIR HEADS), all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity.
            Revelation 9
            7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were (CROWNS) like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
            The Seventh Trump. The real Rainbow
            Revelation11:
            11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
            12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
            13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
            14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
            15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

            16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
            You are flying the “bow of satan” if you display the homosexual flag and you will be judged for sin and ignorance as well.
            11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
            12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
            13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
            14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
            15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
            16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
            Revelation 4: OUR LORD and the REAL RAINBOW
            3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
            Time will tell
            Mark Vaughn 2015 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 3:04 pm #

            Robert Trohon,
            I have noticed a few things that Mark has said that brings him to believe the correct timing of the rapture is essential. These things are worth addressing and I wish you would also help him in these.
            For one he seems to be saying that a Christian can lose his/her salvation. This is a crucial aspect to correctly understand salvation foundationally.

            You can skim his writing and find these problems. They are long because he seems to be reprinting his “book” here. 🙂

            Blessings:-}

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 3:36 pm #

            Edwitness,

            Thanks for asking for my help Ed…but I really dont have a lot of time as I am setting things up for a long trip back to the USA, leaving Nov. 16th.

            But I am praying right now that God’s light of truth would shine in Mark’s heart, in Christ….and I pray the good Lord lead and direct your commendable efforts in helping Mark.

            Pastor Robert Trohon
            La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
            Managua, Nicaragua

            Facebook: Robert Trohon

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 3:56 pm #

            I appreciate your prayers but I can assure you guys that God has been sharing the deeper truths of His Word with me for many years.
            i don’t appreciate the arrogant nature of your prayer and that is that everybody else is in needing of help except yourselves.
            I have a very busy schedule and have spent much of my day trying to help you people.

            poor Mark what a misguided soul he is..We will pray for him to receive OUR TRUTH.
            this is the thanks I get

            signed poor misguided soul
            rupture boat express

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 6:43 pm #

            Robert Trohon,
            Thank you for that brother. It is my prayer as well. And you were correct that the issue of eternal security he says he was not referring to when speaking of a virgin losing her virginity through idolatry, does mean she loses her salvation. When a person worships a false god they are by definition not a Christian.

            Blessings:-} and safe travels as God prepares the way before you:-)

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 3:43 pm #

            look Brother Ed
            If you read closer I did not mention salvation in my reply’s.
            I will make this as plane as i can to all.

            If you were away for 2 thousand years preparing a mansion for your bribe and you came home and she was pregnant with another mans child what would you do?
            Do the words “give suck” and “woe unto those who are with child ring a bell?

            I dont know what God will do with those who worship the anti-christ but i am trying to pull as many out of the fire as I can

            This is the whole analogy behind the great wedding that is patterned after a Jewish wedding only Jesus is the real bride and satan is the fake bride.

            I hate to say the words …..GET it? if not I just cant help you anymore Ed
            Much blessings to you and yours
            M

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 3:46 pm #

            There was an error in that last post Jesus is the GROOM and we are the Bride sorry.
            Satan is the fake groom

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:02 pm #

            Typed that last message without glasses sorry. like i said Im a legend in my own bathroom

          • alphabet November 14, 2016 at 11:50 pm #

            Thank you I was wondering the same question.

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 9:20 am #

            Ever learning but not able to come into the knowledge of the truth….

        • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 2:54 pm #

          Mark,
          You said;
          “>Many ask the question; how do I lose my virginity in a spiritual sense?”

          I have never asked this question nor have I ever seen the scenario given in scripture that would prompt anyone to ask this question.

          You also said;
          “Answer: you lose your virginity by being unfaithful to God or by worshiping other gods-idols. Anything you put before God. The main emphasis on remaining a chaste virgin in these verses is to stay focused on the end times and recognizing that there is a fake bride groom that will try and steal your virginity by enticing you worship him as god.
          (If you can lose your virginity, you must also be able to keep it as well.)”

          There is no scripture that says what you said here. You have developed this line of thinking by assumption alone. There is no scriptural evidence to support these assumptions. The AC is never referred to as a “fake bride groom”. So your final point here is moot.

          You also said;
          “They will not worship the anti-christ or satan or marry the wrong bride groom. They know the voice of their redeemer and the voice of the fake groom as well. They are wise virgins who have studied to show themselves approved.”

          There is no scripture that says that true Christians might marry the wrong bridegroom. If we truly are Christs through faith in Him, HE keeps us until that day. Not ourselves.
          “For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that HE is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.” 2Tim.1:12 and

          “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” 1John 5:13

          If we are born again we will not hear a false christ.

          You said;
          “Anti-christ is simply the fake christ. No more, no less. He will imitate the real Christ in every way. Many will take him as their husband and lose their virginity as the five foolish virgins did because they did not know the voice of the true Bride Groom. They did not read about the great wedding invitation sent them by almighty God in His Holy Word.”

          There is nothing, not one thing in the scripture that supports this. In fact, the scripture never says the 5 foolish virgins lost their virginity. The passage actually says the opposite of what you say here. It says that they ALL, all 10 of them heard of the bride groom coming. “And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then ALL those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.” Mt.25:6,7
          And as I said before, if we are born again we will not hear a false christ. Never.

          These flaws in your thinking are the product of a very unbiblical imagination. You need help badly if you believe that a true Christian can lose his salvation and choose to follow the AC.
          From the understanding you show here you think the pre trib rapture teaching IS a salvation issue. In this you could not be further from the truth.

          First of all the true Christian will not be here to make that choice when the AC shows up.
          And second, the true Christian has already made their choice for Jesus and been judged righteous. And that keeps him until the day Jesus comes for him/her.

          • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 3:02 pm #

            EDwitness…Right on brother…..Eternal security. Sealed with the holy Spirit until the day of redemption..Ephesians 4:30.

            Pastor Robert Trohon
            La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
            Managua, Nicaragua

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 4:39 pm #

            loosing your virginity in this scenario is not loosing your salvation
            Robert you need to learn how to read and quit acting like you can.
            Your a pastor?
            man…..

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 7:14 pm #

            Mark,
            You have said that for a virgin to lose her virginity spiritually is to worship a false god. This, by definition is idolatry. No idol worshipper worships also the true God. You are saying, whether you realize it or not, that the virgin who does this has lost her salvation.
            Mt.6:24- “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.”

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:47 pm #

            Your saying that brother. not me.
            mammon is not satan mammon is money.
            You just have a hard time reading brother
            My patience is wearing thin and time for this old nut case to go to bed
            MV
            I do this out of love for the brothers and sisters.

            The temple needs a good cleansing and that is what is going on in the whole world

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 7:58 pm #

            Mark,
            It is not me that said that. It is the Bible. An idolater can not be a Christian. It is the worship of the true God that makes us Christians. It is the worship of the false god that keeps them from the true God and becoming Christians.
            If you do not know that you don’t know Jesus.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 8:03 pm #

            That is ridiculous ! how many defeated christians are in the world who are defeated by satan?. Look around at all of the Christians with addictions and marital problems who act like the devil everyday until they go to church in the box for their once a week fix on Jesus.
            If you keep toying with me I will really let you have it.
            You lost this one bro but you dont know it yet

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 8:05 pm #

            Mark,
            So you are saying our salvation is by works?
            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 8:08 pm #

            i could have wound you up like a wind up doll and got the same responses from you
            Going back to the third grade where your more comfortable ED?
            works?
            night

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 8:12 pm #

            Mark,
            You are the one who said Christians are defeated by satan because they do naughty things. My question is, how does this mean they are worshipping idols? And that they have lost their virginity spiritually?
            Because the worship of idols means we do not know Jesus. We can not worship two masters.

            Blessings:-]

          • mark November 14, 2016 at 10:41 am #

            Your hypothesis doesn’t work in real life and If I have to explain this you need to go back to the third grade.

          • Amy Spreeman November 14, 2016 at 11:05 am #

            Mark: This is the second time you’ve insulted someone in this community with the “third grade” reference. Let’s honor God with our comments and disagreements, please.

          • mark November 14, 2016 at 12:06 pm #

            Its all in truth. it is what it is. If you are trying reexplain milk with someone who should be in the meat. What is it? What could I say that would make it more palatable for you?

            What about? …We here at calvary think your theology is a little cooky or; We will pray for you…you poor misguided soul.
            If the text says ‘see Jane run” and people think it says “see Jane fall”
            Should I go any further?
            We are in the third grade aren’t we?

          • Robert Trohon November 14, 2016 at 9:48 pm #

            MARK,

            In defense of Edwitness and Amy Spreeman, I have to speak up. You are rude and you know it. If you want respect here, you will need to humble yourself and speak in love.

            1 Corinthians 13: 4-5 …love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
            does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked…

            Now, if you are a MAN of GOD, which you claim to be Mark, then you know you are not speaking/debating in a loving manner. You are rude, you sound puffed up, you parade your book, and you speak like a man that is provoked. (Although I may sound a little provoked here myself, I assure you I am speaking in love, for you and for them.)

            Please consider the validity of these comments.

            In Christ, Robert Trohon.

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 8:52 am #

            Robert Your are just as presumptuous just as your friend Ed. If you are really interested in truth and not how it is presented you would be answering in a different way.
            My heart is in harmony with my Lord and you and Ed have both questioned that.
            Just because your polite doesn’t mean you are a christian. There comes a time such as this when it is urgent and time is short. No more time to play games with people who are to nice for God. Time to quit playing church.

            Did Jesus kick out the money Changers in a polite way?. No he just did what had to be done.
            There are money changers in the temple. I don’t see a nice way to do what God has called me to do.
            There are no regulators to oversee the churches and they have been corrupt with the leaven of false doctrine for way to long.
            When we see an organization like the calvary network and their affiliates promoting a false doctrine like the rapture we are inclined to expose calvary and admonish them to stop this false teaching or lose their candlestick.

            The rapture as cavary teaches it is an entrance to the fake wedding of the anti-christ and and invitation to worship the devil rather than God.
            You teach that the first christ is jesus but in scriptural reality it is satan that is the first rider on the white horse. He comes first.

            In all reality you are teaching your flock to worship the anti-christ.
            The sad part is you people are ignorant as to what you are doing.

            Ignorance is not bliss when you claim to be a teacher.
            MV PS I am not promoting my book….but the truth

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 12:29 pm #

            Mark,
            If it is truly your desire for others to receive the truth from God then you would excercise kindness. Because it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. Not severity and ridicule.
            But, from your verbiage here it is obvious that this is not your intention. What you seek is attention. Feel better now?

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 10:27 am #

            .
            in response to mark:
            Robert Your are just as presumptuous just as your friend Ed. If you are really interested in truth and not how it is presented you would be answering in a different way. My heart is in harmony with my Lord and you and Ed have both questioned that. Just because your polite doesn’t mean you […]
            Mark,
            If it is truly your desire for others to receive the truth from God then you would excercise kindness. Because it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. Not severity and ridicule.
            But, from your verbiage here it is obvious that this is not your intention. What you seek is attention. Feel better now?
            Blessings:-}
            Ed
            >If the shoe fits wear it. I am not trying to win a popularity contest.
            The truth is a two edged sword and cuts both ways. The only way you can refute my research is to attack me. I am used to this by now.
            Your denial of the truth speaks volumes to those in the know.
            You have outright rejected it. So be it.
            MV TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 1:57 pm #

            Mark,
            You have been on the attack since you began commenting here and have been asked to stop by the owner of this website. Now you claim others are attacking you? Now that is funny:-)

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 8:33 pm #

            Exposing a lie is an attack always. Yes I will wear that shoe.
            Rhetoric is a different story.
            Did the truth ever ask you how it wanted to present itself?

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 9:22 pm #

            Mark,
            Indeed it did.

            “Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
            That we henceforth BE NO MORE CHILDREN, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
            BUT SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, MAY GROW UP into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
            From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body UNTO THE EDIFYING OF ITSELF IN LOVE.” Eph.4:13-16

            And

            “And the servant of the Lord MUST NOT STRIVE; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those THAT OPPOSE THEMSELVES; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
            2Tim.2:24-26

            And Jesus who is the truth gives us this instruction;

            “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
            By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
            John13:34,35

            This is the example I and others here have tried to show you. And is exactly how the “truth wants to present itself.”

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 19, 2016 at 8:20 am #

            Ed its to bad you claim to have those traits and do not recognize those traits in others unless they agree with your narrow minded approach to scripture interpretation. What you call love, I call it pandering. The truth has a way of exposing the darkness and those who are in the darkness do not like to be exposed.

            There comes a point in true Christianity when the Remnant will set the plum bob strait just as Zerrubabel came out of confusion so are many in the congregation of calvary.

            My mantra was given me by God and all you have done is question that mantra.
            Your attacks although coated with sicking sugar are nevertheless attacks on my person and not my theology.
            You accused me of not being saved. You told me I was going to hell. All because me and others like me dont agree with your third grade theology.

            I can tell you that the Elijah ministry is the largest network in the world.
            We are one but we are autonomous. We have no traces of our group on the internet. One of our two year students will typically have the knowledge equal or better than most PHds from the cemetery’s that your people come out of.

            There is no nice way to kick the money changers out of the temple. That is what we have come to in America and the world. The money changers are being kicked out as I write. Believe it or not it is all done in love. Do you really think I enjoy trying to explain third grade concepts to a grown man? No it is the most irritating thing in the world!!!!!!!
            Our teacher-mentor-leader could speak in 8 languages. He could read and write ancient Phleo Hebrew, Greek and Chaldean.
            He has a copy of the Massorah and the Pentateuch and his studies were done directly from the manuscripts. Greens interlinear.
            He was a pilot and we went all over the USA interpreting the ancient writings of Olgum and many others. He interpreted the Bat Creek Stone. There were signs of the Vikings and ancient peoples in the USA long before Columbus.

            Ed you and others in calvary are part of the great whore that sits upon the waters and you dont even know it.
            You are giving suck to the works of darkness and there is no other way to put it.

            Truth is foreign to those who believe a lie.

            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 12:22 pm #

            Mark,
            Which part doesn’t work in real life? The fact that God says idolatry means you worship a false god? Or that because they worship the false god they can not know the true God? You are the one who said that losing their virginity spiritually is idolatry. This means they did not know God. But, the passage does not support your conclusion.
            Mt.25:6,7
            “And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then ALL those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.” They all heard His voice.

            What “real world” are you referring to? The one you fabricated in your own mind?
            The reason you resort to your silliness is you have no real answer for your beliefs. Just opinion.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 10:19 am #

            Mark
            Which part doesn’t work in real life? The fact that God says idolatry means you worship a false god? Or that because they worship the false god they can not know the true God? You are the one who said that losing their virginity spiritually is idolatry. This means they did not know God. But, the passage does not support your conclusion.
            Mt.25:6,7
            “And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then ALL those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.” They all heard His voice.
            What “real world” are you referring to? The one you fabricated in your own mind?
            The reason you resort to your silliness is you have no real answer for your beliefs. Just opinion.
            Blessings:-}
            ED
            Blessings? Ed come on

            > In reality there are many defeated Christians who are in idolatry and not even aware of it.
            What you claim is again just unscriptural BS.
            Why would there be a need for repentance if a Christian can’t sin?
            You are so far off I can’t even catch my breath.

            Do think a Christian sets out to be an idolater?
            It is a wonder you can even get out of bed in the morning

            What would you say to a Christian who is addicted to cigarettes?
            They are not saved?
            You sir are trying to enter the mind of God and failing miserably
            Little god little hitler
            MV TheRemanatSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 1:54 pm #

            Mark,
            Idolatry is the worship of the false god. Jesus said we can not serve two masters.
            Mt.6:24-ff
            Therefore the worship of a false god precludes the person from being a worshipper of the true God at the same time. Jesus said that the master you serve causes you to hate the other. Therefore, if you serve the false god (idolatry) you will hate the true God (Jesus Christ). And this is why a person goes to hell.
            You are in error here. And this error IS an issue of salvation. Because you can not worship the false god and the true God at the same time.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 8:28 pm #

            Your literal view of scripture is wit out application in real life
            You theology so flawed
            sad

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 8:56 am #

            The rapture, a carnal view of death
            To Catch Away
            > The separation of soul and spirit is a difficult concept to grasp because people want to drag the flesh half way into heaven when they die. In the moment in the twinkling of an eye means just that, when you die, you are changed instantly, not in an half hour or two hours and you won’t be floating on a cloud at a big wedding ceremony in heaven before you die. God is ubiquitous and can appear to us in dreams and visions or also in persona. Many will be surprised as to how this all takes place but it cannot be understood by a carnal mind because those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and truth.
            When looked at purely from a soul-ish or carnal sense, the rapture makes no sense.
            As Jesus explains the consummation of the end of this earth age he uses the Jewish wedding as an example.
            There are no secret rendezvous with the groom before the wedding in His example
            When the wine is shared between the father and the new son in law and the deal is sealed the Groom will then go and prepare a house for the bride as she waits for him to return and take her to wife. (mansion, or resting place).
            There is no mention of multiple appearances by the Groom before the wedding actually takes place. During this period of time there is no eye to eye contact between the bride and the groom. Only after the wedding takes place are they allowed to see each other again. There are many accounts of guys standing outside the bride’s door trying to make her a better offer. All the while the Groom was away building her a house for their new life. Much emphasis was placed on the bride remaining a virgin and waiting patiently for the Groom to return for her.
            The rapture believers teach that sometime before the (tribulation of anti christ) the bride is raptured or snatched away and all who believe fly out of here.
            So in essence the Rapture dogma actually teaches the bride to sneak off with the fake groom (satan) before the real GROOM returns.
            The tribulation period is symbolic of the waiting period for the bride in the Jewish wedding ceremony. She is not taken by the Groom before the waiting period, only after he has made a place for her will He return and take her to wife.
            You could say the same for the five foolish virgins. They listened to the voices of fake groom outside their door and were seduced by his lies. Why you say….?
            All because they did not study Gods word or His love letters to us. Your lamp is your knowledge of God and relationship with God. The amount of oil you have is the amount you have studied Gods word for yourself and the truth He has given you.
            The five foolish virgins believe the rapture to be true when it is just the opposite.
            The mainstream Christian church is teaching people to fall for the first groom.
            This is why people will be praying for the mountains to fall on their heads at the end.
            They will find out at that time they have actually worshiped satan himself.
            MV 2015 TheRemanantSeed

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 8:57 am #

            The expression “Caught up” in 1st Thessalonians 4

            Strong’s Concordance # 726 in Greek
            harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
            Original Word: ἁρπάζω
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: harpazó
            Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad’-zo)
            Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
            Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

            The same can be said for death of the flesh as above

            The expression “Coming”

            Strong’s Concordance # 3952
            parousia: a presence, a coming
            Original Word: παρουσία, ας, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: parousia
            Phonetic Spelling: (par-oo-see’-ah)
            Short Definition: presence, a coming, arrival, advent
            Definition: (a) presence, (b) a coming, an arrival, advent, especially of the second coming of Christ.
            HELPS Word-studies
            3952 parousía (from parōn, “be present, arrive to enter into a situation”) – properly, coming, especially the arrival of the owner who alone can deal with a situation (cf. LS). 3952 (parousía) is a “technical term with reference to the visit of a king or some other official, ‘a royal visit’ ” (Souter) – “hence, in the NT, specifically of the Advent or Parousia of Christ” (A-S).
            Matthew 24:
            30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

            The expression the “appearing”

            Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance # 3700 in Greek
            appear, look, see
            optanomai: to appear
            Original Word: ὀπτάνομαι
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: optanomai
            Phonetic Spelling: (op-tan’-om-ahee)
            Short Definition: I appear, am seen
            Definition: I appear, am seen (by), let myself be seen (by).
            A (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai (op’-tom-ahee); which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of horao; to gaze (i.e. With wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from blepo, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from eido, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while theaomai, and still more emphatically its intensive theoreo, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and skopeo a watching from a distance) — appear, look, see, shew self.
            The same could be said in dreams and visions. He can appear or come to you in a dream or literally at any time or any place He chooses.
            There seems to be some kind of appearance or observance of Jesus in the “Clouds” before His feet touch the Mount of Olives. It is not clear weather it is in the flesh or in the spirit as to when this will take place. Will we see with our spiritual eyes? Will we see Him in the flesh before we are changed into our spiritual bobies?
            The words appear and come seem to mean the same thing. They are both mentioned in verse 30 of Matthew 24. They are not two different events but one in the same. One cannot happen without the other.
            There is a timeframe for this I am sure. It will happen in the moment in the twinkling of an eye. Or we could say…..very fast. ? Only time will tell us.
            Mark Vaughn 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 5:23 pm #

            Mark,
            “Can be” is not must be. The only reason you would do this is because you have an agenda. And it has nothing to do with the truth. It only has to do with your own ego.
            God knows your heart and sees everything you are doing.
            You need to apply the third rule of interpretation novice. That is;

            When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at it’s primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths indicate CLEARLY otherwise.

            Keep studying youngster. Who knows, you just might get it some day.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 10:38 am #

            The expression “Caught up” in 1st Thessalonians 4 Strong’s Concordance # 726 in Greek harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away Original Word: ἁρπάζω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: harpazó Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad’-zo) Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery. The same can be said for death […]
            Mark,
            “Can be” is not must be. The only reason you would do this is because you have an agenda. And it has nothing to do with the truth. It only has to do with your own ego.
            God knows your heart and sees everything you are doing.
            You need to apply the third rule of interpretation novice. That is;
            When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at it’s primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths indicate CLEARLY otherwise.
            Keep studying youngster. Who knows, you just might get it some day.
            Blessings:-}
            Ed
            >The attack on my person is flattery to me.
            > Death and catching away are one in the same. They have nothing to do with flying or rapture.
            > Every scripture used to imply the pre trib rapture is just that.
            >Pure supposition based on voodoo interpretation of scripture.

             Come on Ed just show me on scripture that contradicts what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29
             You can’t and that is the end of the story.

            I would rather be dumb and young than old and dumb. Old doesn’t correlate to understanding.

            Blessings dear brother eddy
            MV

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 8:59 am #

            The Church of Laodiceia

            The last church in the group of seven churches to be addressed by Jesus.

            There is no evidence to suggest any significance to the names given these believers or groups of people, only to the doctrine they believed or espoused.
            The number seven (spiritual completeness) is the number used to signify “all” churches and could be grouped in to these seven because of the doctrine they taught or believed. Also, there is no chronology mentioned as to when this address to the 7 churches actually took, or takes place, only that it was to the Churches in Asia Minor.
            One has to deduct that this address to the 7 Churches is for all Christian Churches, for all times and that one, or a church can deviate from scripture and find them in error and in danger of judgment at any time.
            With Ephesus as the first and Laodiceia as the last there is a noticeable downward spiral in the believers life as he progresses from the Ephesus “state of mind” to the Laodiceian “state of mind”. The believer moves away from the word of God to the traditions of men and idols to the point of making Jesus sick to His stomach.
            To be in the Laodiceian slumber, you will invariably have the other 4 symptoms as well, so it is the last (# 7) in a series of spiritual failures.
            Sad to say, every denomination and most non denominations in America are all part of the modern day Church that fit in to the category of “Laodiceia”. What is even more tragic is that most think they are part of Philadelphia and Smyrna and they can’t even tell you what they taught at these two Churches that Jesus found no fault with. A common trait among these so called Laodician Churches is that they all think everybody else is in the church of Laodiceia and surely not them.
            Rev 3:16And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
            15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
            16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
            17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
            18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
            19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
            A perfect description of the modern day Church, full of materialism, idol worship and steeped in the traditions of men that make void the Word of God. The age of the super preacher and mega-church with God’s money being used to line the pockets of false teachers and soothsayers. They have lulled to sleep the church in America and the world and very soon will experience a great shaking.
            The shame of your nakedness (spiritual adultery with another god) is rampant in these houses of nothingness in America; look out for the judgment of God!
            Mark Vaughn 8-18-15 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 8:59 am #

            The Church of Pergamos
            Revelation 2:
            12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

            The only Church Jesus mentions His Sword to. AND HE says it is Sharp!
            13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
            >The latter part of this verse has not happened yet. The first part indicates even if you have good works, it will all be in vain if you teach false doctrine and lead others to as well.
            >They worshiped false gods and gave them sacrifices in Pergamos, but the true believers did not.
            14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
            >Among the true believers of Pergamos there was this “doctrine of balaam,” taught that also angered our Lord. “Fornication” means to worship other god’s, or it means spiritual adultery.
            15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
            >To relate this to modern day Christianity, I believe the rapture doctrine is the equivalent to the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes. The Lord truly hates it. This doctrine teaches people (children of Israel) to worship the first jesus that arrives in the second coming of Jesus. When in all reality it is satan who comes first imitating Jesus in His second coming as the scriptures so plainly teach in Second Thess. 2:3 and 4. The real Jesus will not come back until after the tribulation of satan and the appearance of satan standing in the holy place claiming to be god.

            16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
            …Jesus mentions His sword again and only with this Church.
            17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
            >This 17th verse seems to indicate that Jesus will give them a new name “IF” they “overcome.” The word “stone,” as it used in this verse is used nowhere else in the Word of God. This is a clue and should not be overlooked. Jesus is saying I believe, that he will give you the ability to “(count) the (stones) worn smooth over a long period of time.” Which is to say: I will give you (Church of Pergamos) the ability to see the works of satan and his minions and the knowledge of his seed line on this earth. IF you overcome by repenting of your false doctrine and idol worship (fake gifts of the spirit). That is the reason these two words “stone” and “count” have the same meaning. If you partake of this “hidden manna” (word of God), you can see right through satan and his. You have the ability to see the smooth stones (satan) that have been at work for a long period of time. You have the MO of satan if you can count the stones or the number of his name which is six hundred three-score and six. Here is wisdom, let us count………The Key of David. The Hidden Manna.
            Scripture reference for the words “Count” and “Stone”.

            Rev 13:
            18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding “count”the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

            Strong’s Concordance #5585:COUNT
            pséphizó: to count, calculate
            Original Word: ψηφίζω
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: pséphizó
            Phonetic Spelling: (psay-fid’-zo)
            Short Definition: I reckon, compute
            Definition: I reckon, compute, calculate.

            STRONGS NT 5585: ψηφίζω

            ψηφίζω; 1 aorist ἐψηφισα; (ψῆφος, which see); to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon: τήν δαπάνην, Luke 14:28; τόν ἀριθμόν, to explain by computing, Revelation 13:18. (Polybius, Plutarch, Palaeph., Anthol.; commonly and indeed chiefly in the middle in the Greek writings to give one’s vote by casting a pebble into the urn; to decide by voting.) (Compare: συγψηφίζω, καταψηφίζω, συμψηφίζω.)
            STONE
            Rev.2:17 and I will give him a white “stone”, and in the “stone”a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth
            Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance: STONE
            a voting-pebble, small stone
            From the same as pselaphao; a pebble (as worn smooth by handling), i.e. (by implication, of use as a counter or ballot) a verdict (of acquittal) or ticket (of admission); a vote — stone, voice.
            see GREEK pselaphao
            Strong’s Concordance# 5586: STONE
            pséphos: a small smooth stone, a pebble
            Original Word: ψῆφος, ου, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: pséphos
            Phonetic Spelling: (psay’-fos)
            Short Definition: a pebble, a vote
            Definition: (a) a pebble, small stone, (b) hence, from their use in voting: a vote.

            >There are two key words in understanding what is being said to the Church of Pergamos in these two separate verses. (Count) in Rev. 13:18 and (Stone) in Rev. 2:17. They are virtually the same word. The deeper meaning is that these stones used to count with are highly recognizable to a trained eye because they have been worn smooth over a long period of time. The five stones that David chose to kill Goliath were also worn smooth over a long period of time. These stones are symbolic of satan and his little minions and in order to recognize them you have to have the Key of David. In looking at verse 17 in Rev.2 the (white stone) mentioned there is the same word as (count) in Revelation 13:18 which is talking about how to calculate or contemplate who the devil and his are. This word (stone) as it is translated here, is only used twice in Rev. 2:17 and all of the other translations of the word (stone) have a different meaning in the Greek. This is a clue that is hard to deny but it is hidden in the Greek language.

            The people of Pergamos worshiped the devil as he had his seat there in Pergamos. The doctrine of the Nicolaitanes is hated by our Lord and He threatens to come against this doctrine with the sword of His mouth.
            To sum up or better said let us “count” the The message to Pergamos (high ones). Jesus starts His message with “He that hath two edged sword”. Sounds like He is ready to take action before He even speaks. These people were worshiping satan and teaching others to do the same in the name of Christianity. When you look at balaam in
            Joshua 13:22, it explains what balaam was all about. He was a soothsayer and a money hungry supposed prophet whose only interest was money. A Soothsayer is basically a false prophet. Or someone who is against the real prophets (anti-christ). Sound familiar?
            The doctrine of the Nicolataines I believe is the modern day rapture doctrine and all the other junk (fake gifts) that go along with it. The “few things” Jesus had against them were separate from the false doctrine of the Nicolataines and were probably connected to the Idol worship (fake gifts) (worshiping the gift, not the gift giver) that the Lord hates even now!
            In the end I believe Jesus is saying He will give to Pergamos what the Church of Philadelphia and Smyrna already have and that is the KEY of David. But they must turn away from their sin and idolatry. If they don’t, Jesus gets out His sword again and says “ I will come against you with the sword of my mouth.” I believe as time goes on, He will expose this false rapture doctrine and all of the false prophets of the modern day “Church of Pergamos” with the sword of HIS mouth. (Ezekiel 13:20) He HATES this doctrine of the Nicolataines. This is the only time Jesus mentions the word: “hate” in His address to the seven churches. It is the only time He gets out His sword in addressing the seven churches as well. It sounds like Jesus is very unhappy with this Church. Look for HIM to come against this false church with the sword of HIS mouth in the very near future!
            What is the most common doctrine and widely held belief in Christian circles today? There is no doubt that it is the rapture doctrine. None other than the doctrine of the Nicolataines!!! Eight out of 10 Christians believe in the “rapture” today. What a shame!
            To claim that the “rapture” is a further revelation from Daniel as if he unsealed it and revealed rapture to the new “church” in modern times, you are mistaken. Yes the book of Daniel has been unsealed in this the last generation, but there is no hidden rapture revealed, in fact it is just the opposite. We will all go through the tribulation of anti-christ or the “abomination of desolation” (Desolator- satan) and nothing dreamed up by the “any moment” “rapture-rupture” people can change this fact. Look at the world around you (2015) we are already in the beginning of the great tribulation and the time for this dream, this great lie; this false doctrine is to stop. They are still waiting for the rapture to happen when the great tribulation has already begun. They just can’t see it from their comfy white towers here in America yet. The world is falling apart and they are too busy playing church to really see what is going on in the rest of the world. Wake up Church of

            Laodiceia, Pergamos, and the rest, the tribulation has already started. According to your own accounts, the rapture should have already happened! Now what? Are you willing to admit you have been wrong and move on in to the great tribulation with the rest of us? Or will you go down with the ship of lies you have weaved upon yourself. The choice is yours, the evidence is out; it’s a little to little, it’s a little to late for the rapture to happen.
            What about the people being beheaded right now for their faith in other countries? Where is their rapture?
            MV 2015 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 5:39 pm #

            Mark,
            You write like mormons and jw’s. You give the skin of the truth stuffed with a great big lie.
            The trib has not started. And even the most rank novice can see this.
            Specifically, the Bible says it will begin at a time when all the world comes together against Israel over the issue of who will control the city of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:2-3). In short, we are on the very threshold of the Tribulation today as we witness the United Nations, the European Union, the Vatican, and the Arab nations demanding that the Jews surrender their sovereignty over Jerusalem.
            Trump’s promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel may be the catalyst that brings about the events that start the great trib.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 10:51 am #

            Mark,
            You write like mormons and jw’s. You give the skin of the truth stuffed with a great big lie.
            The trib has not started. And even the most rank novice can see this.
            Specifically, the Bible says it will begin at a time when all the world comes together against Israel over the issue of who will control the city of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:2-3). In short, we are on the very threshold of the Tribulation today as we witness the United Nations, the European Union, the Vatican, and the Arab nations demanding that the Jews surrender their sovereignty over Jerusalem.
            Trump’s promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel may be the catalyst that brings about the events that start the great trib.
            Blessings:-}
            Ed
            >Again your limited understanding of the location of the Lost tribes of the house of Israel and who and what they are.
            Most of the ignorant mainstream like you claim that all of the tribes are Jews. You wouldn’t know a Jew from the tribe of Benjamin. Paul himself made the clear distinction between the two in

            Romans 11
            11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
            2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
            3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
            4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
            >In all reality you and others in your ilk cannot tell the difference between a Jew and a gentile.
            >So how can you interpret scripture without this knowledge? Answer: you cant
            Mormon? JW ? I would compare you and calvary to the:
            Jim Jones ministeries… For leading Christians straight to the arms of the fake groom anti-christ
            MV

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:00 pm #

            Mark,
            “Again your limited understanding of the location of the Lost tribes of the house of Israel and who and what they are.”

            There are no lost tribes.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 9:00 am #

            Revelation 6:2 The Anti Christ Appearance
            The “Bow” of the Anti Christ
            TOXON a cheap fabric imitation

            Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a (bow); and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
            BOW
            #5115 Greek
            Strong’s Concordance
            toxon: a bow
            Original Word: τόξον, ου, τό
            Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
            Transliteration: toxon
            Phonetic Spelling: (tox’-on)
            Short Definition: a bow
            Definition: a bow.
            From the base of tikto; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric) — bow.
            see GREEK tikto
            In other words: A cheap fabric imitation of the real Rainbow.
            The real Rainbow that appears around the Throne of God when He appears at the Seventh Trump can not be imitated but satan will try. He is already using this sacred bow in defiance of God in the homosexual military movement. Their flag is an abomination to our LORD and the homosexual flag is nothing but a cheap fabric imitation of the real Rainbow…..Here is the REAL RAINBOW in Revelation 4 at the Seventh trump.
            Revelation 4:3 And HE that sat was to look upon like a Jasper and a Sardine stone: and there was a RAINBOW round about the throne, in sight like unto an Emerald.
            The flag of satan is already flying in the Untied States of America even on the White House the day of the SCOTA ruling on same sex marriage.
            I hope all Americans can see the correlation of this homosexual flag being displayed as it has in the past few years. You are being programmed to receive satan himself, the one who introduced the homo flag to the homosexual community.
            This is direct spit in Gods eye if you will, because the Rainbow is not only a sign and covenant that God will never flood the earth again, but also a sign that will be used by satan as a cheap fabric imitation of the real thing in his appearance at the sixth trump.
            Only the real Lord will appear at the seventh trump, with the real BOW around His throne and not before.
            The CROWN satan will be wearing on his head, along with the fake bow.
            CROWN the one satan will be wearing
            Strong’s CROWN #4735 Στέφανος stephanos {stef’-an-os
            From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively:—crown.
            Ezekiel 23:
            15 Girded with girdles upon their loins, exceeding in (DYED ATTIRE UPON THEIR HEADS), all of them princes to look to, after the manner of the Babylonians of Chaldea, the land of their nativity.
            Revelation 9
            7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were (CROWNS) like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
            The Seventh Trump. The real Rainbow
            Revelation11:
            11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
            12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
            13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
            14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
            15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

            16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
            You are flying the “bow of satan” if you display the homosexual flag and you will be judged for sin and ignorance as well.
            11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
            12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
            13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
            14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
            15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
            16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
            Revelation 4: OUR LORD and the REAL RAINBOW
            3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
            Time will tell
            Mark Vaughn 2015 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 5:48 pm #

            Mark,
            When Jesus comes in the rapture “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” 1Thes.4:17
            When He comes back at the second coming “And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” Zach.14:14

            You know why these are so different? Because they are not the same event.
            You look for your savior on earth. The AC.
            But, true Christians look for their savior, Jesus Christ, in the air. Where we will go to meet Him in the rapture.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 10:59 am #

            Mark,
            When Jesus comes in the rapture “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” 1Thes.4:17
            When He comes back at the second coming “And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” Zach.14:14
            You know why these are so different? Because they are not the same event.
            You look for your savior on earth. The AC.
            But, true Christians look for their savior, Jesus Christ, in the air. Where we will go to meet Him in the rapture.
            Ed
            >Your claims that these are two different events is laughable. How many times a day do you think Jesus appears to people in dreams and visions? Your claim that this is a onetime event is nonsense!!!

            Jesus coming-Jesus appearing

            The common misconception among many rapture believers are these two words “appearing and “coming”. The two words are almost identical in their meaning in the Greek but yet the pre tribulation rapture believers claim that there is a difference between the “appearing and the coming” of Jesus Christ.

            Here is an analogy that will put there claims to rest once and for all.
            Christians from all over the world have given account of Jesus appearing to them in a dream or even a vision for centuries.
            God is ubiquitous so He doesn’t need to “come to you to appear to you because He is already there. He is everywhere all the time. This is a false view of the very nature of God that is contrary to the real “second coming”. God appears to people all the time so this is not exclusive to the end times as rapture believer’s claim.

            If the Lord comes to you He will appear to you, however he does not need to come to you to appear to you because He is already standing right in front of you.
            This logic of placing a ubiquitous God over here and over there is completely contrary to His nature.
            Coming or appearing do not apply to a God who is everywhere. We are only made aware of his coming or appearing at His will.

            His will is that all the earth sees Him in the clouds with glory at His second coming as He returns with all of the saints of the past. This is a one time event and there is no dividing this event up into two comings or an appearance and a coming. There is only one seventh trump and not two. There is only one second coming but there have been many appearances of Jesus Christ to the people throughout the centuries.

            The expression “Coming”

            Strong’s Concordance # 3952
            parousia: a presence, a coming
            Original Word: παρουσία, ας, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: parousia
            Phonetic Spelling: (par-oo-see’-ah)
            Short Definition: presence, a coming, arrival, advent
            Definition: (a) presence, (b) a coming, an arrival, advent, especially of the second coming of Christ.
            HELPS Word-studies
            3952 parousía (from parōn, “be present, arrive to enter into a situation”) – properly, coming, especially the arrival of the owner who alone can deal with a situation (cf. LS). 3952 (parousía) is a “technical term with reference to the visit of a king or some other official, ‘a royal visit’ ” (Souter) – “hence, in the NT, specifically of the Advent or Parousia of Christ” (A-S).
            Matthew 24:
            30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man COMING in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

            The expression the “appearing”

            Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance # 3700 in Greek
            appear, look, see
            optanomai: to appear
            Original Word: ὀπτάνομαι
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: optanomai
            Phonetic Spelling: (op-tan’-om-ahee)
            Short Definition: I appear, am seen
            Definition: I appear, am seen (by), let myself be seen (by).
            A (middle voice) prolonged form of the primary (middle voice) optomai (op’-tom-ahee); which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternate of horao; to gaze (i.e. With wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from blepo, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from eido, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while theaomai, and still more emphatically its intensive theoreo, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and skopeo a watching from a distance) — appear, look, see, shew self.
            The same could be said in dreams and visions. He can appear or come to you in a dream or in person at any time or any place He chooses.
            MV 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 9:01 am #

            page one
            THE END OF THIS EARTH AGE

            The second coming of Jesus Christ is the most important event in modern times. This generation is the generation of the fig tree, Matthew 24-32 and Jeremiah 24. And we are the last generation. Never before in the history of the Christian church has this occurred as the tribe of Judah has taken back rightful ownership of their homeland after exile for thousands of years in history. 1948 is a major benchmark; and, the promise of His coming will be fulfilled in this, the last generation.

            …and in those days before the tribulation the church would fly away.

            There is not one direct reference to a pre-tribulation rapture in the Bible. There is no difference between the “appearing” and the “coming” of Jesus Christ. God is ubiquitous, He doesn’t need to appear or come to accomplish His will, when we see Him, it will be in our spiritual bodies and a “coming” or an “appearance” will have no bearing on our gathering back to Him. The rapture is a moot point when looked at in the mind of the spirit. When He returns with all the saints (clouds) it will only be possible to see Him in the spirit body, in the moment in the twinkling of an eye all will be changed when His feet touch the Mount of Olives.
            Second Timothy 4:1 is often used as a basis for three appearances, or ages, when the subject is preaching the word of God in due season. It’s funny, if you go down to verse 3 of the same chapter it says:
            3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
            4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
            5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
            The rapture is a fable, dreamed up by men just as it says in the prior verses
            Even if the subject were three appearances, there is no mention of chronology, post or pre-tribulation whatsoever.
            The same goes for 1st Thessalonians 4:17, no mention of chronology, post or pre either
            It is Paul’s explaining where the dead are and our gathering back to Him and no mention of when it takes place.
            Here is another scripture taken out of context by pre- trib beleivers in 1st Thessalonians 5:9;
            9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
            This verse is often used as proof we will be gone before Gods wrath is poured out. Again, no chronology mentioned. There is a big difference between the wrath of God and the tribulation of satan and the beast system. The wrath of God will last about 5 minutes, the tribulation of satan will last for five months as it states in Rev9:10 and will defiantly come before the wrath of GOD. I can’t stress how important it is to distinguish the difference between the tribulation of satan and the wrath GOD. God’s wrath will not be poured out upon His children who are under the blood of Jesus.
            Another verse that is used to suggest the church will be gone before the tribulation is Revelation 3:
            10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
            Notice the words: “all the world.” There is no separation between the world and those who keep the “word of my patience.” The hour of temptation WILL come upon ALL OF THE WORLD and this hour of tribulation will last five months as it states in Rev.9:5. Who are the ones that keep the WORD of HIS Patience? Read Rev. 2:9 and chapter 3 and you will find the two churches that taught the real truth. You will also find out what they taught and that those of the church of Smyrna were delivered up to death (anti-christ) for ten days as Mark 13:9 says.
            To me this is a solid proof that Smyrna and Philadelphia will be here during the tribulation of anti-christ.
            Another verse twisted out of context to prove pre-trib rapture is Revelation 4:1,
            After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
            What does the word “I” mean? John is “I”, not the church, the church has absolutely no article here in these verses. John is “I”.
            Revelation 11:12 is the only rapture mentioned in God’s word and the word’s “come up hither” are mentioned again. This is the account of the two witnesses.
            Again, even if Revelation 4:1 were “the church”, there is no chronology or pre-trib rapture spoken of whatsoever.
            Another interpretation of the pre- trib rapture believers that is taken out of context is their interpretation of second Thessalonians chapter 2:
            7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
            The subject is satan and his appearing established in verse 1 and Paul is saying: It isn’t going to happen untill that wicked man of sin be revealed:
            2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
            2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
            3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
            To say: “he who lets” is the church or the holy spirit is taking the verses out of context.
            Who is this “He who lets?”, It is none other than Michael in Revelation 12:7:
            7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
            8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
            9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
            Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Referring to the fallen angels who left their habitation in Heaven and married women.
            These fallen angels will be cast to the earth again just as satan himself. Look in Genesis 6 to see how it was, Fallen angels had children with the daughters of men and giants were born .These fallen angels will be cast to the earth again just as satan himself. The earth is not prepared for this at all and the Christian church is “a sleep at the wheel”.
            There is only one second coming and He is coming back here on the Lord’s day and He will rule and reign for 1000 years with a Rod of Iron as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
            The second coming of Jesus Christ has been twisted and turned into this any moment doctrine called the rapture. All of their references to rapture are inferred and are based on faulty interpretation, with no time line or chronology. This fact cannot be overlooked in critical analysis. First Thessalonians 4:17 says nothing about WHEN the so called rapture will take place. On the other hand there is a direct reference to a post tribulation gathering back as Jesus says: “Immediately after the tribulation shall be the coming of the Lord” in Matthew 24:29-30, Mark13:24-26 and Luke 21:27. In all of these verses Jesus Himself is explaining the chronology of His return and nowhere is there a reference to a pre tribulation rapture, in fact He states just the opposite. He says, immediately after the tribulation shall you see the coming of the Son of man. How do you get past that? …… If Jesus said it, I believe it…period.

            When Jesus returns all flesh will die. This earth age of flesh and carnality will end. No flesh and blood will make it to Eternity. Jesus is coming back with the Saints and we will gather back to Him as every knee will bow in the greatest gathering of God’s children since the first world age.

            Have you ever thought how would it be possible for the entire world to see the return of Christ at one time? God can do anything; He doesn’t need to return where He is already because He is ubiquitous. How can you return to where you already are?

            He at the end of this age will make a special glorious return with all the Saints who have died in the past believing in Him will return with Him. I believe the Second Coming will be unlike anything we could imagine in the flesh. To me that’s why the rapture is so carnal in its approach to the gathering back or second coming. In essence the rapture is an over spiritualization of the death of the flesh. There is absolutely no biblical reference to a “rapture” or, flesh bodies flying in the sky or disappearing on a massive scale. Death, or gathering back, can be described as being snatched away by force or in a sense we gather back to Him when the flesh dies. The rapture doctrine looks at the Second Coming from a carnal mindset and is more of a Hollywood movie script rather than biblical reality. When Jesus returns with all the saints, all flesh will die, period. We will be changed, in the moment in a twinkling of an eye. His feet will touch the Mount of Olives and a new age will begin. There is no need for rapture, Christ is coming back here.

            There is no doubt that the great imitator (Satan) is already at work planning his strategy to deceive the Bride into thinking he is the Bridegroom and the rapture is his end time strategy. The current any moment doctrine, or rapture as it is called was started as a rumor by two preachers who were at her bedside when Margaret McDonald had a dream where she herself said she felt the evil. It quickly spread as the current doctrine we have today. The book, The Incredible Cover Up, by Dave McPherson, traces the entire history of this evil dream. John Darby was the main carrier of this false doctrine the rapture.

            Every scripture used to try to prove this evil dream was from God is such a far reach from reality. It’s absolutely consistent with strong delusion that is actually sent by God,
            II Thessalonians 2. Every scripture used is twisted out of context to prove this false doctrine, just as Satan did with Jesus in the wilderness. The books that have helped this false doctrine become mainstream have done much damage to the truth and “Left Behind” by Tim Lahay, The “Late Great Planet Earth” by Hal Lindsey and other books have made millions of dollars selling out God. With Images of people disappearing all over the world and planes, busses, trains, cars and everything else crashing and all of the innocent people perishing including children. This in itself would constitute a great tribulation. Imagine all of the scenarios that would unfold as a result of this massive disappearance. Sounds more like a movie rather than the reality of GOD’s word. To counter the fact that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God the accounts of this rapture scenario have changed as of late they say they will be translated at some point between here and there in the rapture and that’s why all the people disappeared on the earth.
            next page

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 5:51 pm #

            Mark,
            When Jesus comes in the rapture “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” 1Thes.4:17
            When He comes back at the second coming “And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.” Zach.14:14

            You know why these are so different? Because they are not the same event.
            You look for your savior on earth. The AC.
            But, true Christians look for their savior, Jesus Christ, in the air. Where we will go to meet Him in the rapture.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:03 am #

            Ed you are so deceived. All of my posts have decimated your argument but you still keep beating your head against the wall and coming back for more.
            You lost the debate
            You should just go home and take your toys with you…..
            MV TheRemnantSeed
            Jude 1:3

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:04 pm #

            Mark,
            You said “All of my posts have decimated your argument but you still keep beating your head against the wall and coming back for more.”

            First, I never thought I was “arguing” with you.
            Second, you are correct in saying that you can be like talking to a wall. But, as long as you are still breathing there is hope for you. God can soften your heart if you will let Him.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 8:46 pm #

            Have already prayed for you and the congregation of calvary. I have visited many calvary and vineyard churches.
            I have listed to the false doctrine first hand.
            The breakup of your church will happen as it will happen to many false churches.
            You call out your 400 and I will call out my one.

            We will see very soon who has the Key of David.

            MV 11/18/2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 9:35 pm #

            Mark,

            We don’t have to wait to see who holds the key of David. John told us that Jesus holds the key of David.

            “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;”
            Rev.3:7

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 19, 2016 at 8:26 am #

            You do not posses the Key and that is why you say that. Did you happen to notice the word “man” ? You amaze at your complete inability to read. Amazing…..

          • Edwitness November 19, 2016 at 5:56 pm #

            Mark,
            You are a mess among messes doctrinally that are rearing their ugly head more and more in these last days. Everything you have said in your posts are based on lies from satan. There is a way out however.
            But, you will have to become as a child to find it.

            Mt.18:3- “And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:35 am #

            Mark
            You know why these are so different? Because they are not the same event.
            You look for your savior on earth. The AC.
            But, true Christians look for their savior, Jesus Christ, in the air. Where we will go to meet Him in the rapture.
            Blessings:-}
            ED ….You have this backwards and just can’t see how bad you butcher gods Holy Word!!!
            How does this fit into the execution of the trumps, viles, seals?
            Is it the second seventh trump? Is it the six and a half trump? Give me scripture to back up this claim. Which trump is it?
            You can’t. answer the last question This is utter nonsense to try and slip an extra trump in here .Can you count from one to seven?
            This is so ridiculous even trying to explain this to a child who thinks they are an adult.
            Ed…you probably wet the bed
            Im done with you and your nonsense.
            Look forward to my book coming out because it will be passed out directly to people outside of your churches when they leave services.
            Have a great life Ed and thanks for accusing me of not being saved…that was very Christian of you and so typical of the people who harbor lies when they are exposed.
            You skirt is over your face and you don’t even know it.
            MV2016 TheRemnantSeed.

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:47 pm #

            Mark,
            “Which trump is it?”

            One commonly used argument raised against the Pre-Trib position originates from the Rapture Scripture found in I Cor. 15:52. The Scripture reads, “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

            Opponents to the Pre-Trib teaching maintain that this “last trump” must be the same one that the 7th Angel blows during the latter part of the Tribulation Period which is recorded in Revelation 10:7 since this is the last trumpet mentioned being blown in the Book of Revelation.

            Pre-Trib opponents find themselves at odds with Scripture on this point when faced with the fact that the “angelic” 7th trumpet of Rev. 10:7 is not the last biblically recorded supernatural trumpet to ever be blown.

            Isaiah 27:13 describes what will take place after Jesus Christ has returned to the earth. The time frame presented is after the Tribulation has concluded and Christ has begun His Millennial Reign. It is during this time that a supernatural trumpet will be heard throughout the lands.

            Quoting we read, “And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the Holy Mount at Jerusalem.”

            This Scripture, along with Zechariah 9:14, which tells of the Lord blowing another trumpet at His return, provide substantial clarification regarding the timing of the Rapture.

            First it verifies that the Last Trumpet spoken of at the Rapture in I Thess. 4:16 is a uniquely appointed trumpet designated for the end of the Church age and thoroughly refutes the Mid-Trib assertions that there are no other trumpets blown after the angelic tribulation trumpet of Rev. 10:7.

            This is conclusive by the trumpets of Zechariah 9 and Isaiah 27 being blown at the very close and then again after the Tribulation – thus after the angelic 7th trumpet of Rev. 10:7

            The angelic trump of Rev. 10:7 only presents the last in a series of seven blown trumpets. Revelation 11:15 reveals that this trumpet announces the day when Jesus will begin His reign and will lay His claim to the earth.

            Without animosity for fellow believers in Christ who adhere to Post-Trib Rapture teachings, Isa. 27:13 and Zech. 9:14 also greatly narrows the field of debate as to the timing of the Rapture by eliminating the Post-Trib position entirely.

            This is shown by the Isa. 27:13 statement about the people who “were ready to perish.” The mention of the fact that these people were about to perish verifies that they will be mortals.

            The central question of importance is, “Who are these surviving mortals?”

            According to Post-Trib adherents, when Jesus Christ returns with His saints (see Rev. 19:4 & Jude verses 14-15) the Church will have been caught up only moments earlier to join the Lord for warfare as He is descending from Heaven to do battle at Armageddon.

            Their belief is that there is no time allowance for any communion or celebration between the Church and the Lord, but instead are abruptly changed into glorious, celestial beings in order to partake in the bloodiest war in history. For a brief moment the Lord’s trumpet blast prophesied of in Zech. 9:14 might appear to support this scenario.

            Here the problem arises with the unknown mortals of Isa. 27:12-13. We know already by Isaiah that these mortals who were ready to perish are believers in the Lord because they are going up to Jerusalem during the millennium to worship Him.

            So our first significant revelation from Scripture is that these people shown living during the earthly rule of Christ are mortal believers, who for some reason were not caught up to meet Christ and glorified with immortal bodies at His coming as Post-Trib theology requires.

            Secondly, if these people had been unbelievers at Christ’s coming with His Saints, according to Rev. 13:7-8 they would have had to be destroyed as followers of the Anti-Christ.

            Speaking of this man of sin and his followers we read, “And it was given unto him to make war with the [tribulation] saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindred’s, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

            Revelation 19:20-21 states without reservation that the Anti-Christ and all his followers are destroyed at Christ’s coming. John 3:18 makes this deadly fate of unbelievers at Christ’s coming quite plain.

            The conclusion is logical and inescapable. Since there are mortal believers left alive during Christ’s reign who were not glorified at Christ’s coming they cannot be members of the entity known as the Church. Thus no Rapture of the Church will be taking place at the close of the Tribulation Period.

            The saint-filled Church which is seen returning with Christ at His coming at Armageddon in Rev. 19 could only have been Raptured some time earlier then the Post-Trib teaching proposes.

            As to who the mortal Millennium believers are who were about to perish, they can only be those who became believers after the Rapture took place.

            These are the Tribulation saints who had to survive the murderous pursuit of the Anti-Christ described in Rev. 13:7. They will be permitted to live on in Christ’s kingdom alongside the resurrected Old Testament saints who were promised an earthly inheritance.

            The simple reason why they were not Raptured and glorified at Christ’s coming is because the Rapture had to have already taken place prior to that time. These are the surviving and resurrected believers who will repopulate the planet under Christ’s ruler ship as is revealed to us in such passages as Zechariah 8:3-5 and Daniel 12:9 & 13.

            Additional scriptural proof for this prophetic picture is conclusive. The initial gathering together of all the wicked for destruction at Christ’s coming with His Saints can be verified by the scriptural passages found in Matthew 13:30,38-42 & 49-50 & 24:38-41.

            Then the subsequent preserving and gathering together of the remaining mortal believers with a trumpet after His return is shown in Matt. 24:22 & 29-30.

            It is a worthwhile endeavor for prophecy students to more thoroughly explore Zechariah 9:14 where we are told of the one other time than I Corinthians 15:22 when God will blow His trumpet.

            As we have shared, the time of this trumpet blast is at the close of the Great Tribulation. Chapters 9 & 10 of Zech., when read in full context, abundantly refutes any notion that this is the trumpet blast heralding the Rapture since believers are not changed into glorified beings, but are instead anointed upon the earth as great warriors. They do not return with the Lord from Heaven, but are aided from Heaven.

            We are shown that these are mortal believers who, after the Lord returns, will thrive as mortals in the land of Israel. Zechariah 10:8-10 further reveals that these are the same mortals who in Isa. 27:13 were about to perish in the lands of Assyria and Egypt.

            The passage in Zech. 9:14 prophesies that the day of this trumpet blast is the same day of the Lord’s return. If at any point in history there could possibly be a Post-Trib Rapture of the living this surely should have been it, but there is none!

            The unbelievers are gathered and destroyed at this time while the believers remain mortals on the earth to fight, conquer, regather, thrive and reproduce.

            The glorious last trumpet of I Cor. 15:52, when the Church is Raptured, had to have taken place at some point earlier. If not, then it would be impossible to find any mortals left to repopulate the millennial earth; everyone would have been immortalized or destroyed when Christ returned at Armageddon.

            Revelation 11:15 & 12:10 reveal that the trumpet blast of Rev. 10:;7 declares the end of Satan’s position of authority over the earth from his previous position in the heavens, not the Rapture of the Church.

            ******************THE TERM “LAST TRUMPET” IN NO WAY MEANS THE SOUND OF A TRUMPET WILL NEVER BE HEARD AGAIN.***************************************************

            In conclusion, the Scriptures offer no support in any manner to the teaching that the trumpets of the 7th “Angel” in Rev. 10:7 is the same as the trumpet of “God” blown at the Rapture in I Thess. 4 & I Cor. 15.

            It is straight forwardly presented as the last of 7 angelic trumpets blown in a sequence as God releases His wrath upon a Christ-rejecting world. Scripture reveals there have been and will be other heavenly trumpet blasts to signal the end (or beginning) of other eventful occasions. The term “last trumpet” in no way means the sound of a trumpet will never be heard again.

            The only question which remains critical at this point for you Mark is, are you ready for the Last Trump which will signal the close of the Church Age and the glorification and gathering together of the body of Christ?

            Be sure right now by putting your faith in the Living Lord Jesus Christ who paid the full penalty for the sins of the world by shedding His own precious blood on the cross.

            Trust in Him alone for your salvation can assure your receipt of His blessed atonement, “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (I Thess. 4:16-17).

            Reprinted from the very gracious and scholarly folks at Rapture Watch

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:46 am #

            Debunking the rapture Theory 1
            2 Timothy 4:1 made simple.
            1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
            The above verse is always where the rapture believers stop. Read the next verse in context and see what the subject matter is:
            >The judgment seat of Christ is being spoken of here and it is not the same as the great White Throne Judgment spoken of in Revelation..
            > Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
            Preaching the Word is the subject, not rapture, but preaching the Word in “due season”. The mention of Jesus “appearance” or “coming” is one in the same.. It is impossible for someone to come to you unless they appear, or can be seen by coming to you. This type of logic is so flawed and it violates all of the basics of reading. All of this is a moot point when you are in your spirit body anyway. Where ever the Lord appears, that’s where his kingdom will be, it’s just that simple. It will be right here on Earth.
            The pre-tribulation believers somehow interpret this as 3 “appearances” or “comings” as they say: one has already happened, or Jesus first “coming” and another “appearance” will be the Rapture and the last is the “coming” or second coming of Jesus.
            Pre Trib believers claim that His appearing and His kingdom are two different events and the Charge before God was the first advent. They assume that a coming and an appearance are talking about two different events. This is a far reach from what is being said in the above verses and gives an example as to how far the scripture has been twisted to prove a pre trib rapture. They even go so far as to say there will be two seventh trumps to get away from the sixth trump.
            Why would a ubiquitous God need to “appear” or “come” when He is already ‘everywhere”. When He returns or appears all flesh will simply die and we will behold his glory, but only after this flesh has been done away with. You have to come out of the mind of the flesh and in to the mind of the spirit to fully grasp this concept. Other wise, how could He appear to everyone on earth at the same time?
            As you can see the logic is totally flawed in their interpretation of scripture.
            Here are the words “APPEARING and COMING” in the Greek:
            COMING: parousia: a presence, a coming
            Original Word: παρουσία, ας, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: parousia
            Phonetic Spelling: (par-oo-see’-ah)
            Short Definition: presence, a coming, arrival, advent
            Definition: (a) presence, (b) a coming, an arrival, advent, especially of the second coming of Christ
            Next:
            APPEARING: epiphaneia: appearance
            Original Word: ἐπιφάνεια, ας, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: epiphaneia
            Phonetic Spelling: (ep-if-an’-i-ah)
            Short Definition: appearing, manifestation
            Definition: appearing, manifestation, glorious display.
            2 Timothy:
            3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
            4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
            5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
            MV 2015 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:48 am #

            Debunking the Rapture Theory, part two:

            1 Thessalonians 5:9
            9> For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

            One of the most common used by the pre-trib believers, as they point to this scripture every time you mention Christians having to go through the tribulation. Notice there is nothing that remotely suggests a rapture. These scriptures are simply talking about salvation and that it is better to be saved and in the will of God, rather that experience His wrath in the end.
            The subject in Thessalonians 5 is being diligent, sober and to be a watchman as the return of our Lord will be as a thief in the night. Most people are so confused about this subject and the end will come like a thief in the night to them because they haven’t studied God’s word. Part of being diligent is reading the word of God to know when the thief will come and who he is. What is one of satans names? He is a thief. John 10:10 the thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
            To confuse the wrath of God (cup of wrath) with the tribulation or “hour of temptation” is a fatal flaw in the interpretation of scripture. No Christian will experience the wrath of God if they are in Jesus but all will experience the tribulation of satan as all have throughout the ages of history. The end times will be no different.
            To interpret these scriptures as saying we won’t experience the wrath of God because we will be gone in rapture is a blatant twisting of what is being said. We wont experience the wrath of God because we are saved and in Jesus. This has nothing to do with rapture.
            Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego went “through” the fire and not a hair on their head was singed, why is this so hard to understand? They weren’t raptured out of the fire, they went through it with the help of God.

            Here is the “Cup of Wrath” that is actually being talked about in Thessalonians 5:9.
            Definably not the “tribulation of satan” and not to be confused as such..

            This is just another example of the complete twisting and contortion of our Fathers word.

            Scripture references for “THE “CUP OF WRATH”

            Revelation 14:10
            The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
            Revelation 16:19
            And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath

            Zechariah 12:2
            Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
            Matthew 26:39
            And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
            Matthew 26:42
            He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
            Jeremiah 25:15
            For thus saith the Lord God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
            Jeremiah 25:17
            Then took I the cup at the Lord’s hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the Lord had sent me:
            Revelation 14:10
            The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

            MV 2015 TheRemnantseed

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:50 am #

            Debunking the Rapture Theory, part 3

            Scripture reference:
            Revelation 3: Philadelphia
            10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL of THE WORLD, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

            Smyrna
            Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

            matt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

            24; 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

            42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

            Mark 13:
            10And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
            11But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that HOUR, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.
            . 12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. (satan)
            13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
            In essence the pre-trib believers are claiming that they won’t be delivered up because they will be gone in a rapture. Their whole understanding of this “hour of temptation” is not understood because you cannot be delivered up if your gone in a rapture. Only Christians who know the truth can be delivered up before death satan and not non believers. Why would Christians or non believers be delivered up to death if they already believe the anti-christ is Jesus? Can you See the flaws in this logic? If All Christians are gone in rapture who will be left to deceive? Look at these words “ALL THE WORLD”, it means just what it says.
            Nobody will escape but will be kept from the “HOUR of blasphémos” or temptation” if you are in Jesus. To use modern vernacular I would say it like this: If you are asked; Would you let the Holy Spirit speak through you? Or, would you Tempt Him.
            Another hidden truth in the Greek, is the word “Temptation” One meaning in Greek is “blasphemy” and the other is “Salem”, or “King of Salem”

            A few words that are the key to understanding in Revelation 3:10;

            KEEP
            ◄ 5083. téreó ►. … 5083 tēréō (from tēros, “a guard”) – properly, maintain (preserve);
            (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact. …
            Strong’s Greek: 5084. τήρησις (térésis) — a watching …
            … being kept intact. See 5083 (tēreō). [5084 (tḗrēsis … keeping [the] commandments
            of God. 3 Occurrences. 5083. 5085.

            PATIENCE
            ◄ 3114. … Cognate: 3114 makrothyméō – properly, long-tempered (to defer anger),
            refusing to retaliate with anger, because of human reasoning. …
            Strong’s Greek: 3113. μακρόθεν (makrothen) — from afar …
            … stood at a distance, KJV: by sea, stood afar off, INT: trade by of distance
            stood. 14 Occurrences. 3112. 3114. Top of Page. Top of Page.
            Strong’s Greek: 3115. μακροθυμία (makrothumia) …
            … account [that] the longsuffering of our INT: Lord of us patience salvation esteem
            you. 14 Occurrences. 3114. 3116. Top of Page. Top of Page.

            TEMPTATION
            ◄ 989. blasphémos ►. … HELPS Word-studies. Cognate: 989 blásphēmos – what is blasphemous
            (reverses spiritual and moral realities). See 987 (blasphēmeō). …

            HOUR
            ◄ 5610. hóra ►. Strong’s … 4). Thayer’s Greek Lexicon. STRONGS NT
            5610: ὥρα ὥρα, ὥρας, ἡ, from Homer down, the Sept. …

            Strong’s Greek: 5611. ὡραῖος (hóraios) — seasonable …
            … 5611 hōraíos (from 5610 /hṓra, “an hour, the time of fulfillment”) – properly, a
            particular hour (a “season” of time); (figuratively) beautiful in timing …

            A kin word to TEMPTATION

            ◄ 4531. saleuó ►. … Englishman’s Concordance. Strong’s Greek 4531
            15 Occurrences ἐσάλευσεν — 1 Occ. ἐσαλεύθη — 1 Occ. …
            Strong’s Greek: 4532. Σαλήμ (Salém) — Salem, the home of …

            The tribulation however will come upon “all” the world. It should be every believers desire to be delivered up before death to let the Holy Spirit speak through you to enlighten the world as to who antichrist is. Not escape in a fly away rapture like a coward.
            Just look at Smyrna, They were told to get ready to be delivered up to anti-christ and not to get ready to fly away to escape the coming tribulation. What makes the other churches any different?
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:51 am #

            The Rapture doctrine debunked part 5

            Scripture reference: 2 Thessalonians: 2:1> Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
            2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
            > It seemed the first letter had confused many in Thessalonica and Paul hastily wrote this second letter, to clarify the second coming of Jesus Christ.
            3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
            > There is only one “wicked man of sin” or “son of perdition”. Perdition means ‘to perish” and there is only one son of perdition and that is satan himself. That day (second coming) will not come until “AFTER” that wicked man of sin be revealed.
            4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
            5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
            6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
            > The angel Michael is withholding satan in heaven so that he (satan) will be “revealed in his time” and cast down to earth.
            7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
            >Many Christians in the world today are deceived by false doctrine. This “mystery of iniquity” is a mystery to those who haven’t studied to show themselves approved, rightly dividing the word of truth. Satan is the mystery of iniquity and he is at work in the church today. “He who now letteth” (Michael holding satan) will let until he be taken out of the way. (satan cast out of heaven to earth).

            8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
            >”Wicked be revealed”> (tribulation of satan) “Whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth”> accomplished by (Two Witnesses and The Elect when they are delivered up)and finally:”With the Brightness of HIS coming”> is the Wrath of God at the Seventh trump in that order. This is a chronology of the end times that most read right over.
            9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
            > Who is HIM? It is Jesus. The text says AFTER the working of satan. This is another obvious clue as to the chronology of Jesus return. It is “after” the workings of satan and not before.
            10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
            > These people did not care about where they got their “truth” from, just as long as it tickled their ears and made them feel good. Most of these Christians read other men’s books about the Lord instead of reading Gods word for themselves.
            11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
            > Do I need to clarify this? Just hope and pray that you are not part of this group that has been sent strong delusion. Study the WORD of GOD for yourself!
            2 Thessalonians is a clarification by Paul about the second coming of Jesus Christ. If there were two comings or an appearance and a coming or a rapture don’t you think the scholar of scholars would have mentioned the word rapture in his letter to Thessalonica?
            Why do you think one of satan’s names is “anti-christ”? If satan came after Jesus return, how would he be able to imitate Jesus, with Jesus here? Playing his role of ant-christ, or instead of Jesus can only be done “before” Jesus comes back in the real second coming. There is no need for an “actor” or a “phantom”, if you have the “real thing” (Jesus).

            How pre-trib rapture believers interpret 2 Thessalonians 2:7
            7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
            A fundamental mistake is made in their interpretation because they inject the church and the Holy Spirit in where the word “HE’ is. The subject is satans appearance and the chronology of Jesus return’. The subject here is not the church or the Holy Spirit; it is the chronology of satan’s return to the earth as he is held in heaven by Michael.
            The “He who letteth” is Michael, not the church. The “He” who be taken out of the way is not the Holy Spirit being taken from the earth; It is SATAN himself being cast to the earth by Michael. How can you “withdraw” the Holy Spirit who is ubiquitous? Nonsense!
            This is a blatant twisting of the Word of God and to say that the Holy Spirit is satan? This type of misinterpretation violates all of the laws of reading a simple novel let alone the Word of God. They butcher the Word of God by not sticking to the fundamentals of reading, Who, What, When, Where and How.
            Here is what Paul is referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 in: Revelation 12: 7> and there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
            8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
            9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
            10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
            11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death
            To be an over comer, you have to be here on earth to “overcome” by the blood of the lamb, in Jesus name.
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 9:03 am #

            page two

            The movies “Left Behind” and “Late Great Planet Earth” show an earlier version of this scenario. So their views are changing to fill in the gaping holes in their logic. The fact is the Christian church did not teach a pre-tribulation rapture for the first 1800 years of Christianity. This false doctrine has been espoused by Pentecostal, Charismatic, Calvary and other churches and it has now become mainstream doctrine. The same logic in their views of the gifts of the spirit applies to their views on the second coming and they are flawed in their interpretation. The gifts of the spirit are not operated in the flesh nor discerned in the flesh. The same goes for the Word of God.

            From the beginning, we as Christians have had to endure persecution and the wrath of Satan and this generation is no different. The wrath of God won’t be directed at us if we are in Jesus. The gospel must be preached into all the world and then the end will come and no sooner.

            PARABLES ABOUT END TIMES

            John 2:18 and II Thessalonians 2:7 are closely tied together and Satan in his role as antichrist is the main clue as to how the Second Coming will take place. Antichrist means Instead of Christ, he will claim to be Jesus. If Christians are gone in rapture there would be no need for Satan to play this role. The return of Jesus is explained in carnal terms referring to us as the bride, chased virgin, espoused to one husband and so on and are about us remaining faithful to God through the tribulation or deception of antichrist. If we are gone there is no need to remain faithful.

            Mark 13, Luke 21 and Matthew 24 all speak of the end of this age and are parables hidden to the unlearned. Pray that your flight be not in the winter: don’t be harvested out of season. Or wait for the true Jesus.

            The ten virgins in Matthew 25 are about God’s children that have enough oil or truth to endure until the end. After being away for 2000 years and Jesus comes back and His bride is with child, He wouldn’t be happy would He? The next verse explains what will happen if you worship Satan. You will “give birth” to a spiritual child out of adultery with none other than Satan.

            Mark 13:12

            Now the brother shall betray the brother to death SATAN, and the father the son: and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. (or Satan).

            Matthew 24:19

            And woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days.

            This means you have been in bed spiritually with Satan himself and giving suck means you have been nursing along his work even turning in your relatives in to death (Satan) thinking that he is Jesus Christ.

            Matthew 24:40

            Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

            Matthew 24:39-41, Luke 17:36

            Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The subject is Noah’s flood. Who is taken you ask? The one taken is the one taken in the flood and the one left is the one that got aboard the Ark that is symbolic for the world. The one taken is not taken in rapture but taken away in the flood. The one who stays is symbolic for those who stay on the earth to do the Lords work. The “flood” is also symbolic for the flood of lies in the end times that includes the rapture doctrine

            Matthew 24:41
            Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. This is another scripture that is totally taken out of context. The one taken is swept away in the flood and the one left is safe on the Ark. How can you get rapture out of this?
            These are all parables and must be understood as such. Jesus is talking about His return as the Groom and we are the bride and that is why you see all these carnal terms to be applied in the spiritual sense. To fully understand what is being said you must understand the Jewish wedding ceremony. We are to remain faithful until the true Groom returns.

            You have to be here on earth and not gone in rapture for these scriptures to be true;

            • Matthew 24:1 Gospel to all the world
            • Matthew 24:9 Delivered up to be afflicted
            • Matthew 24:13 Endure till the end
            • Matthew 24:15 Abomination desolation Satan
            • Matthew 24:20 Flight not in winter
            • Matthew 24:22 Days shortened for elect
            • Matthew 24:23 Lo here is Christ
            • Matthew 24:24 Very elect deceived
            • Matthew 24:26 He is there or secret chambers
            • Matthew 24:29 Immediately after tribulation
            • Matthew 24:30 ALL the tribes
            • Matthew 24:31 The elect from four corners
            • Matthew 24:32 Parable fig tree
            next page

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 6:15 pm #

            Mark,
            You are dead wrong about the early church not teaching the rapture.
            The pre trib rapture has been taught since Paul revealed the “mystery”. I would offer these excerpts as examples of this;

            The reason the Pre-Tribulation concept of the timing of the Rapture was delayed in its refinement until the 19th Century was because the Roman Catholic Church adopted St. Augustine’s amillennial viewpoint of prophecy hook-line-and-sinker around 430 AD. In his book, The City of God, Augustine spiritualized Bible prophecy and then argued that the Millennium began at the Cross and would continue until the Second Coming.
            This spiritualizing approach to the interpretation of Bible prophecy proceeded to dominate theology for the next thousand years. Protestants adopted it after the Reformation and expressed it in the Postmillennial view that emerged in the mid-17th Century. Both Amillennialism and Postmillennialism are based on the assumption that Bible prophecy does not mean what it says.
            The discovery of the distinction which the Bible makes between the Rapture and the Second Coming had to await the revival of the application of literal interpretation to Bible prophecy. I say “revival” because the writings of the Church Fathers during the first 300 years of church history (100 AD to 400 AD) reveal that they interpreted prophecy for its plain sense meaning. Accordingly, they were nearly all Premillennialists. In fact, Justin Martyr (110-165 AD) went so far as to suggest that anyone with a different viewpoint was heretical.
            The revival of literal interpretation began in earnest among the Puritans in the 17th Century, and it quickly led to an understanding that the Rapture would be an event separate from and preceding the Second Coming. Puritan leader, Increase Mather (1639-1723), argued “that the saints would be caught up into the air” and thus escape the world’s final conflagration.
            One of the early Church Fathers, The Shepherd of Hermas, writing in the early 2nd Century, makes an interesting observation about “the great tribulation that is coming.” He says, “If then ye prepare yourselves, and repent with all your heart and turn to the Lord, it will be possible for you to escape it, if your heart be pure and spotless, and ye spend the rest of the days of your life in serving the Lord blamelessly.”
            In medieval times evidence of pretribulational thinking can be found in the recently discovered sermon attributed to Ephraem the Syrian. This sermon, which was written sometime between the 4th and 6th Centuries, encourages believers to prepare themselves for meeting the Lord because “all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.” Scholars believe this text was derived from the writings of the original Ephraem who lived from 306 to 373 AD. He was one of the leading theologians of the early Byzantine Church.
            It is very likely that there were always some forms of premillennialism and pretribulational thought throughout the Middle Ages but, if so, these viewpoints had to be expressed underground because they violated Catholic dogma. Sects like the Albigenses, Lombards, and the Waldenses were attracted to a literal interpretation of the Bible, but little is known about their detailed beliefs because the Catholic Church declared their writings to be heretical and destroyed them.
            So it seems Mark that you have much in common with the rcc. Another heretical group.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 15, 2016 at 9:04 am #

            page three
            Mark 13 and Luke 21 all reiterate the Second Coming. This is not just for the Jews but it is for all of the children of God.

            The pre-tribulation people use the eminent return of Jesus as a big reason as to why they should be ready and live a holy life because He could return at any moment. The same goes for death and we can be snatched away at any time. What about all the people before the generation of the fig tree? What about all the people before the appearance of antichrist? They had no hope of the eminent return of Jesus because these events in
            II Thessalonians 2:3 had not occurred. It states that man of sin must be revealed (Satan) before Jesus can come back in His second return. No Christian could in past times or now have any expectation of Jesus eminent return. To say right now, “He could come back at any moment” is just not sound doctrine. The “Man of sin” (Satan) must first be revealed. Paul could not have made it any clearer. Have you seen Satan in person lately? The world is being transformed for Satan’s entrance as the false Jesus and many will be deceived. He will come to deceive Christians, not non Christians, as they are already deceived. Christians have to be here on this earth for this to Occur. If their gone in pre-tribulation rapture, this couldn’t happen.

            Ezekiel teaches of a time when super preachers would teach Gods children to fly to save their soul. No other time in history have we had a teaching like the rapture that in essence teaches people to fly away? Listen as Ezekiel speaks to the whole House of Israel where ever they are :

            Ezekiel, 13:20

            Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.” All of Ezekiel 13 should be read to get the full context. There is a striking resemblance to the churches of today.

            Our motivation as Christians should be out love for our Father and wanting to please Him because of that love. We are the generation of the FIG TREE and have been chosen to stand and fight against Satan in this the final battle. What a privilege!

            As in any war, you have to know your enemy; and when you fight, you need all of your best warriors (People armed with two edged sword). We are here in this last generation to stand up for God, not run and hide. I would rather be prepared for the tribulation and it not happen rather than being prepared for the rapture and it not happen. If you think you will be gone in the rapture and it doesn’t happen, you will be deceived easily and could be in danger of losing your soul if you worship Satan. This is the final battle; Satan is prepared, are you?

            Acts 3:20-21

            20 “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:”

            21 “Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”

            “So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation” (Hebrews 9.28 ), “And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming” (1John 2:28). “Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels”

            II Thessalonians 1:6-7

            “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven” (Mark 13:26-27). It is this gathering of believers to the Lord, as he is returning, that is often misinterpreted as proof of a coming rapture

            Also revealed in scripture is the length of the tribulation: The Tribulation of anti-christ has been shortened to one hour or five months and even shortened to two and one half months, else even the elect would be deceived.

            Revelation 3:10

            Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon the entire world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. This doesn’t mean they will be raptured, it means they will be spared from the wrath to come. Notice it says, ALL THE WORLD!

            Revelation 9:5, Revelation 17:12 and Revelation 3:9

            And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented FIVE MONTHS: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

            And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men FIVE MONTHS.

            Revelation14:7

            Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the HOUR of his judgment is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

            Jesus again is talking about His Second Coming; there is only one “Last Day!”

            • “And this is the Father’s will who has sent me, that of all whom He has given me I should lose none, but should raise him up again at the last day.” (John 6:39)
            • “And this is the will of him who sent me…that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him may have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day”. (John 6:40)
            • “No man can come to Me, except the Father who has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:44)
            • “Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:54) No mention of a rapture, only the “last day”

            Revelation 17:12

            And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings ONE HOUR with the beast. Check out this word “hour” and you will find it not to be a literal hour.

            These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
            The chosen and faithful are the saints that are with Him, they’re not gone.

            Satan will also be released again after the millennial rein Of Christ Revelation 20:7 to test Gods children again, If you can believe this you should be able to believe it happened before in the first world age in the great Katabole). This is a Greek word meaning: “Casting down” or “Overthrow”. (Strong’s concordance #2602 and 2598). Appendix 146 in the Companion Bible by EW Bulinger.

            Satan and his angels will be cast down to this earth again Rev 12-9 and it will be as the days of Noah. The flood of lies has already been cast out after the whole world. Are you in Gods army? Or Satan’s army?.

            IF YOU ARE A PASTOR-TEACHER-LEADER AND YOU CAUSE ONE OF GOD’S CHILDREN TO WORSHIP ANTI-CHRIST WITH THIS FALSE DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE, THEIR BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS. IF THE RAPTURE DOESN’T TAKE PLACE, CAN YOU IMAGNE HOW THESE POEPLE WILL FEEL WHEN THEY KNOW THEY HAVE BEEN LIED TO? YOU SHOULD BE PREPARING YOUR FLOCK FOR THE COMING DECEPTION OF ANTI-CHRIST INSTAED OF TEACHING THEM TO FLY AWAY. WE ARE RAPIDLY APPROCHING A TIME OF GREAT TURMOIL AND WE WILL SEE A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT COME TO POWER. AMERICA IS BEING DISMANTELED AS I WRITE AND THE WORLD IS BEING PREPARED FOR THE ENTRANCE OF THE ANT-CHRIST.

            If you have read this than you are now responsible for what you do with the knowledge that has been revealed to you. This is not just a debate about pre or post tribulation, it’s about people’s eternal soul.
            There is a great sifting taking place and only the Churches that wait for the true Christ will be left.
            Revelation 2:20;

            Do not add or take away from the WORDS of the BOOK the BIBLE

            Prepare yourself with the Word of God and the word of your testimony.

            This is it…….The day of the LORD is at hand.

            MV 2015 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 16, 2016 at 8:46 am #

            From Beginning to end

            A six thousand year old earth?

            A pre-tribulation rapture?

            I have two verses from the Bible that without a doubt prove that calvary chapel is steeped in false doctrine.

            Mathew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
            2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

            Chances are if you get the beginning and the end wrong you will most likely do the same with middle as well.

            In order to prove both of these false doctrines much of the Word of God must be taken out of context to prove this false narrative.

            To add and subtract from the Word of God is in violation of Revelation 22:18 and calvary has been weighed in the balances and found wanting.

            The book TheRemnantSeed will rolling off of the presses soon and you at calvary will be comforted to know that we at the Elijah Ministries will be passing them out to the congregants of calvary.

            I have made public this transcript for all to see in a much bigger forum than BC so that the truth can expose the false doctrine that is so prevalent in the modern church.

            >Read below what Peter has to say about the subject of the three world ages and the people that are willingly ignorant of this fact.

            2 Peter 3:16
            As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
            1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
            2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
            3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
            >Scoffers are people who mock the true gospel and also people who mock Christians.
            4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
            >This verse is in no way speaking of a pre trib rapture. The text is speaking of Christians who believe a lie that are mocking those with the truth and in some cases it is the other way around as well.
            >This is the first of the two verses I mentioned that indict the leadership at calvary.
            5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
            >The words >”willingly ignorant”The above verse is speaking of the first world age.
            7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
            >Speaking of this earth age in the first half and in the second half it is speaking of the age of Judgment to come
            Recap>>> first world age; 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
            >Second and Third world age: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
            >The text is as plain as day if you rightly divide it and coo berate with the other verses in the Bible that speak of the dispensations of time.
            8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
            9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
            >The 144,000 are being sealed as we speak. When this is done then the end will come.
            10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
            >The elements are the evil rudiments of this world. Guess what calvary? God can destroy them while you are still on earth in the flesh! His wrath can be spared you even while standing right next to the evil rudiments. Do not limit God with your small thinking!
            >The next verse out of the two is Matthew 24:29 immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
            Matthew 24:29 is the only place in the Bible where a POST TRIBULATION Gathering back to Christ is mentioned.
            Jesus Himself gave us this chronology so who are we to change it?
            If there was a pre tribulation rapture don’t you think Jesus would have been more specific in His address to the disciples?
            The pre tribulation rapture is a second guessing of Jesus Christ Himself.
            MV 11/16/2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 6:28 pm #

            Mark,
            You said;

            A pre-tribulation rapture?

            I have two verses from the Bible that without a doubt prove that calvary chapel is steeped in false doctrine.

            Mathew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
            2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:”
            What proof? Ridiculous.

            It is you that is adding to the scripture in these “interpretations” you are giving here.
            It is you that is in danger of the consequences of the verses that speak of not adding to or taking away from the words of this book.
            Peter does not say what you said. He speaks of the creation that was from the beginning. Just add the ages together from Adam till Jesus. It’s not that hard. God gave it that way for a resason. To make it easy for us pea brained humans to refute the so called science that would try to deceive us.
            Like I said. I will take God’s word over Man’s word every time.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:04 am #

            You only understand a small portion of Gods word because you put God in a box

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:07 pm #

            Mark,

            “You only understand a small portion of Gods word because you put God in a box.”

            That’s true if you define that “box” as the context of the scriptures.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 16, 2016 at 8:54 am #

            If you are raptured and gone from the earth how will these scriptures be fulfilled?

            A Fire already Kindled

            Matthew 13.9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
            Luke12 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
            >This fire is the fire in your heart for the Lord Jesus.
            50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
            51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
            > Many think the Gospel is a Gospel of peace only. Christ said it would be the great dividing line between the real followers of Christ and the fakes.
            52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
            53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
            >Entire families, churches, nations and the world are being split at this very moment by this great dividing line of truth and lies that is being drawn in the sand right now by Christ himself.
            54 And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.
            55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.
            56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
            >How many are blind to the evil of the world we live in. Now God has withdrawn His protection from the USA and the House of Israel. We are under His judgment now.
            57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?
            >Most have lost the ability to tell the truth all over the world. Lies are now the truth.

            58 When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison.
            >Be careful of what you say and who you say it too, because now in America you can be thrown in jail for so called “hate speech”.
            59 I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.
            >America…you will pay for your unrepentant heart and the sins that have piled up before God and have now become a stench in the nostrils of GOD.
            Matthew 13:
            10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
            11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
            >The mysteries of heaven are not given to all
            12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
            13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
            14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
            >Many in the land are deaf and dumb and unable to receive instruction from God.
            Malachi 1:
            10 Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.
            >Many churches in America offer up strange fire on the alter of God to their destruction.
            2:7 Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
            >Woe unto those who call evil good and good evil.

            4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
            >Elijah has come and gone and the remnant is carrying out the instructions given by him from the WORD of GOD.
            6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
            >The true word of God will be a stumbling block to many in the end times. The truth will be offensive to many and turn them away from the true Father.
            Matthew 13:15 For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
            16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
            >The remnant has eyes to see and ears to hear.
            17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
            >The elect of God have the KEY of David to unlock doors that no man can shut and lock doors that no man can open. This is the mystery of God from the foundation of the WORLD or Cosmos.
            Malachi 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
            >True saints of God think about the Lord day and night.
            17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
            >These Jewels are the elect of God
            18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
            >This day is coming soon.
            Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
            >The day will come when evil is burned in the fire
            2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
            3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
            >In the end we Christians are the winners and all evil will be gone. Just as the LORD GOG said it would be.
            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 6:33 pm #

            Mark,
            These refer to Israel. Not the church. Israel will be here for the trib. They are who the trib is for. Jer.30:7

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:06 am #

            Here is wisdom about the Tribes
            The House of Israel and the House of Judah.

            Two separate houses until Ezekiel 37 comes to pass and the twigs are joined back together.

            >Many modern theologians make a common mistake of thinking that all of the twelve tribes of Israel are of the tribe of Judah; the verses below prove the House of Judah and the House of Israel are separate houses at this time until the two tender twigs in Ezekiel 37 will be joined back together in the future.

            Ezekiel 37 16 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.
            >The fact that the two houses are listed separately makes it apparent that they are not the same House or family at this time. Anytime the bible speaks of the House of Jacob it is speaking of the “whole house of Israel” including Judah and all of the other tribes combined.

            Jeremiah 3:18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
            Jeremiah 5:11 For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the Lord.

            Jeremiah 11:10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.

            Jeremiah 11:17 For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

            Jeremiah 13:11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the Lord; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

            Jeremiaha 31:27 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

            Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah

            Jeremiah 33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
            Ezekiel 20:5 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the Lord your God;

            Zachariah 8:13 And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.

            Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
            Isaiah 2:5
            O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord.
            Isaiah 2:6
            Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.
            Isaiah 8:17
            And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
            Isaiah 10:20
            And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
            Isaiah 14:1
            For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
            Isaiah 29:22
            Therefore thus saith the Lord, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
            Isaiah 46:3
            Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:
            Isaiah 48:1
            Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.
            IIsaiah 58:1
            Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
            Jeremiah 2:4
            Hear ye the word of the Lord, O house of Jacob, and all the families of the house of Israel:
            Jeremiah 5:20
            Declare this in the house of Jacob, and publish it in Judah, saying,
            Ezekiel 20:5
            And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; In the day when I chose Israel, and lifted up mine hand unto the seed of the house of Jacob, and made myself known unto them in the land of Egypt, when I lifted up mine hand unto them, saying, I am the Lord your God
            Ezekiel 28:25
            Thus saith the Lord God; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jaco
            Ezekiel 39:25
            Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

            MV 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:10 pm #

            Mark,
            You said yourself that when Jacob is used in referrence to Israel it is referring to ALL of Israel.
            That is why we know the “time of Jacob’s trouble” is for all of Israel. And not the church age saints.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:07 am #

            The Abraham Covenant

            Modern day theologians misquote the Abraham covenant on a regular basis and have replaced the true gospel with a fake. The true Abraham covenant started when Abraham was willing to sacrifice his only son Isaac by the instruction of God. After God witnessed the obedience of Abraham he made a covenant with Abraham that God would bless the seed in Isaac and that his descendants would become as numerous as the sands of the sea and stars of heaven. Through the promised seed of Isaac, the whole world would be blessed.
            This contradicts the mainstream replacement theology that the northern tribes were completely wiped out and only the Jews are left from the original 13. This is completely untrue, where do you think the northern tribes migrated too? They migrated over the Caucus Mountains to Europe and the USA, Canada and everywhere around the world just as God promised Abraham. The daughters of Zedekiah (Scota was one of them) were the patriarchs of Scotland Ireland Whales, England and the USA. This exclusion of the other 12 tribes is the modern day replacement theology that will deny the existence of the other 12 tribes and place the tribe of Judah in their stead.
            This goes completely against the true Abraham covenant that God will multiply all of the 13 tribes and scatter them all over the earth as in Hosea. God hates this theology because it teaches the children of the true HOUSE of ISRAEL that they are gentiles and not of the promised seed of Isaac, therefore denying them their true heritage in the family of the original HOUSE of ISRAEL and the 13 tribes of Israel the family and linage of God.

            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:12 pm #

            Mark,
            “Modern day theologians misquote the Abraham covenant on a regular basis and have replaced the true gospel with a fake.”

            This is strictly your opinion apart from any Biblical evidence.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:08 am #

            Abrahams Child

            Matthew 15:24
            I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
            In America Christians are completely unaware of who they are. Most Christian theologians fail to identify America in Bible prophecy and are in ignorance as to whom the House of Israel is and where the house of Israel is.
            The USA is comprised of the House of Israel who are from Isaac the seed of promise through Abraham and may be his direct descendants. Isaiah chapter 18 goes in to great detail as to who the United States is and just because it doesn’t name the USA by name doesn’t mean it isn’t speaking of the greatest nation that ever existed. The House of Israel and the nation or land of Israel is completely different and modern theologians can’t make the distinction between the two.
            The House of Israel is the Christian nations or peoples and the “land” of Israel is the nation of Israel, the home or land of the original 13 tribes. The Jews or Judah is only one of the 13 tribes which all are the rightful owners of the land of Israel.

            Modern theologians fail to make the distinction between the LAND and the PEOPLE of Israel. The word “HOUSE” almost always means FAMILY in Hebrew or Greek. The House of Israel is the FAMILY of Israel or the family of Jacob. Israel is the new name God gave Jacob after Jacob wrestled with God all night and won the wrestling match with God. Jacobs’s new name is now Israel. Israel was very special to God. God knew the plans He had for Israel through the HOUSE OF ISRAEL or the 13 tribes of Israel. OR the FAMILY of Israel who was Jacob.
            The family of Israel (Jacob) has been scattered throughout the world and are not aware of who they are. Many are here in America and are not aware of who they are and what their true heritage really is. Many are direct descendants of this one Israel and are not aware of their blessings as part of the family of Israel. This fact has been hidden away from most of the modern theologians as they have subscribed to a revisionist theology that claims the Jews or Judah is the only tribe that is traceable through history and that the other 12 tribes have somehow disappeared in to thin air.
            The two separate captivities that separated Judah and the other 10 tribes as Jeremiah 24 and Ezekiel 37 state are separated and scattered at this time.
            Many of Judah is here in America and all over the world and many of the other twelve tribes are here in America and all over the world as well. We have been a blessing to the entire world through Abraham Isaac and Jacob just as God said to all of the descendants of Abraham. We would become as numerous as the stars of heaven and the sands of the sea.
            This is what Abraham did that caused God to bless him so much and that we are a part of that blessing and the Heritage of God:
            Genesis 22: 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
            10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
            11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
            12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
            Isaac the son of Abraham was this son that was on the alter of God and he became the seed of promise and that Jacob was the son of Isaac. The House of Israel is the Family of Israel; the 13 tribes are the literal seeds of promise. Here is God speaking to Abraham and his descendants in Genesis 22:
            17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
            18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
            This is the heritage that is given to the children of Israel all over the world.
            Ezekiel 37 16 Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 16 “As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’ 17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

            In the future the two sticks will be joined back together.

            Jacob’s new name given by God was Israel and it has nothing to do with the Nation or land of Israel. There is a big difference between the land, or, (terra-firma) of Israel and the people of Israel. There were special promises made to the literal seed of promise in Isaac and later through Jacob. If you are unable to separate the “house of Israel” and the land of Israel you will misinterpret most of the promises given to Jacob’s children who are the “house of Israel”.

            Ezekiel 3:4 Then He said to me: “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them.
            5 For you are not sent to a people of unfamiliar speech and of hard language, but to the house of Israel,
            6 not to many people of unfamiliar speech and of hard language, whose words you cannot understand. Surely, had I sent you to them, they would have listened to you.
            7 But the house of Israel will not listen to you, because they will not listen to Me; for all the house of Israel are impudent and hard-hearted.

            MV 2016 The Remnant Seed

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:15 am #

            The Soothsayers The liars

            Isaiah 56:10
            His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
            Acts 16:16 |
            And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

            The pulpits of America are full of these “SOOTHSAYERS”
            They cloud the truth of Gods word and lull the sheep to sleep.
            Just turn on your TV and you will see the definition of a Soothsayer.
            They would rather lead people to their church rather that lead people to Jesus. They coup the sheep all up in building and starve them all to death for the Word of God.
            What’s wrong with America is what’s wrong with her Churches. They have lost their salt
            and are no longer relevant today. Christianity has lost its credibility in the eyes of the world because of the Christian Circus they see today, all in the name of God. They treat God as if He were a vending machine and the god of self help to new and better you.
            They have begathons that last for days and most of the money lines their dirty pockets.
            They want all the blessings of God but never take the time find out what those blessings are. They are dry bones with no life in them (spiritually dead) and have none understanding in them of the true nature of God. America’s people would rather hear a soothsayer, because the true Word of God is an offence to them. A rock of offense and a stumbling block to be clear. The world has become OFFENDED by the true Word of GOD.

            Strong’s Concordance #1505 Hebrew word for Soothsayer
            gezar: to cut, determine
            Original Word: גְּזַר
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: gezar
            Phonetic Spelling: (ghez-ar’)
            Short Definition: diviners
            cut out, soothsayer
            (Aramaic) corresponding to gazar; to quarry; determine — cut out, soothsayer.
            see HEBREW gazar
            Strong’s Concordance #6049 Hebrew word for Soothsayer
            anan: bring
            Original Word: עָנַן
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: anan
            Phonetic Spelling: (aw-nan’)
            Short Definition: bring
            bring, enchanter, observer of times, soothsayer, sorcerer
            A primitive root; to cover; used only as a denominative from anan, to cloud over; figuratively, to act covertly, i.e. Practise magic — X bring, enchanter, Meonemin, observe(-r of) times, soothsayer, sorcerer.
            see HEBREW anan #6051 Hebrew word for Soothsayer
            anan: a cloud mass, cloud
            Original Word: עָנָן
            Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
            Transliteration: anan
            Phonetic Spelling: (aw-nawn’)
            Short Definition: cloud cloudy
            From anan; a cloud (as covering the sky), i.e. The nimbus or thunder-cloud — cloud(-y).
            see HEBREW anan
            manteuomai: to divine

            Strong’s Concordance# 3105 Greek word for Soothsayer
            mainomai: to rage, be mad
            Original Word: μαίνομαι
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: mainomai
            Phonetic Spelling: (mah’-ee-nom-ahee)
            Short Definition: I am raving mad
            Definition: I am raving mad, speak as a madmanbe beside oneself, rage
            Middle voice from a primary mao (to long for; through the idea of insensate craving); to rave as a “maniac” — be beside self (mad).

            manteuomai: to divine #3132 Greek word for Soothsayer
            Original Word: μαντεύομαι
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: manteuomai
            Phonetic Spelling: (mant-yoo’-om-ahee)
            Short Definition: I practice soothsaying
            Definition: I divine, practice soothsaying, suggesting the fraud involved in the practice.
            soothsaying.
            From a derivative of mainomai (meaning a prophet, as supposed to rave through inspiration); to divine, i.e. Utter spells (under pretense of foretelling — by soothsaying.
            see GREEK mainomai
            >>>>
            >The Gainsayer<
            Strong's Concordance #483 Greek word for (gainsayer)
            antilegó: to speak against, hence to contradict, oppose
            Original Word: ἀντιλέγω
            Part of Speech: Verb
            Transliteration: antilegó
            Phonetic Spelling: (an-til'-eg-o)
            Short Definition: I speak or say in opposition, contradict
            Definition: I speak or say in opposition, contradict (oppose, resist).
            contradict, deny, speak against.
            From anti and lego; to dispute, refuse — answer again, contradict, deny, gainsay(-er), speak against.
            see GREEK anti
            see GREEK lego
            Joshua 13:22 |
            Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, did the children of Israel slay with the sword among them that were slain by them.
            Isaiah 2:6 |
            Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.
            Daniel 2:27 |
            Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
            Daniel 4:7 |
            Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
            Daniel 5:7 |
            The king cried aloud to bring in the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers. And the king spake, and said to the wise men of Babylon, Whosoever shall read this writing, and shew me the interpretation thereof, shall be clothed with scarlet, and have a chain of gold about his neck, and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.
            Daniel 5:11 |
            There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers;
            Micah 5:12 |
            And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:

            There are many “soothsayers” in the world as well, they mock the children of God and mock His Word. Just look at the world around you, it seems as if everybody speaks with a political narrative and will stop at nothing to get their way. They use mass murder to inject their sick ideas on the American people and they all sound like computer algorithms with their politically correct speech. All the while people are suffering and family members are wondering if their loved ones are alive and all these no-goods can do is inject their politics into an already terrible situation. Everything carefully designed to deceive the American people and strip us of our Christian Heritage as a nation. Most Americans are falling for this false “narrative” hook line and sinker and have lost the ability to tell a truth from a lie. The air is so thick with lies I can hardly breathe anymore. Lord help us.
            .
            MV 2016TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:15 pm #

            Mark,
            “Matthew 15:24
            I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
            In America Christians are completely unaware of who they are.”

            More opinion based on the twisting of some scriptures.

            Blessings:-}

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:17 pm #

            Mark,
            “Christianity has lost its credibility in the eyes of the world because of the Christian Circus they see today, all in the name of God.”

            When has the world ever believed the church had credibility? Never.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 11:18 am #

            The rapture, a carnal view of death
            To Catch Away
            > The separation of soul and spirit is a difficult concept to grasp because people want to drag the flesh half way into heaven when they die. In the moment in the twinkling of an eye means just that, when you die, you are changed instantly, not in an half hour or two hours and you won’t be floating on a cloud at a big wedding ceremony in heaven before you die. God is ubiquitous and can appear to us in dreams and visions or also in persona. Many will be surprised as to how this all takes place but it cannot be understood by a carnal mind because those who worship God must worship Him in spirit and truth.
            When looked at purely from a soul-ish or carnal sense, the rapture makes no sense.
            As Jesus explains the consummation of the end of this earth age he uses the Jewish wedding as an example.
            There are no secret rendezvous with the groom before the wedding in His example
            When the wine is shared between the father and the new son in law and the deal is sealed the Groom will then go and prepare a house for the bride as she waits for him to return and take her to wife. (mansion, or resting place).
            There is no mention of multiple appearances by the Groom before the wedding actually takes place. During this period of time there is no eye to eye contact between the bride and the groom. Only after the wedding takes place are they allowed to see each other again. There are many accounts of guys standing outside the bride’s door trying to make her a better offer. All the while the Groom was away building her a house for their new life. Much emphasis was placed on the bride remaining a virgin and waiting patiently for the Groom to return for her.
            The rapture believers teach that sometime before the (tribulation of anti christ) the bride is raptured or snatched away and all who believe fly out of here.
            So in essence the Rapture dogma actually teaches the bride to sneak off with the fake groom (satan) before the real GROOM returns.
            The tribulation period is symbolic of the waiting period for the bride in the Jewish wedding ceremony. She is not taken by the Groom before the waiting period, only after he has made a place for her will He return and take her to wife.
            You could say the same for the five foolish virgins. They listened to the voices of fake groom outside their door and were seduced by his lies. Why you say….?
            All because they did not study Gods word or His love letters to us. Your lamp is your knowledge of God and relationship with God. The amount of oil you have is the amount you have studied Gods word for yourself and the truth He has given you.
            The five foolish virgins believe the rapture to be true when it is just the opposite.
            The mainstream Christian church is teaching people to fall for the first groom.
            This is why people will be praying for the mountains to fall on their heads at the end.
            They will find out at that time they have actually worshiped satan himself.
            MV 2015 TheRemanantSeed

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 2:22 pm #

            Mark,
            “So in essence the Rapture dogma actually teaches the bride to sneak off with the fake groom (satan) before the real GROOM returns.”

            No, the pre trib rapture teaches that we will meet the Lord in the air as the scripture says.
            “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Thes.4:17

            Not on the earth like you believe. You have set yourself up for trusting the AC.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 16, 2016 at 9:02 am #

            The Messenger to the
            The Seven Churches
            Revelation chapter 2 and 3

            In my studies and prayer time I have been able to see a deeper meaning in Jesus’ message to the seven Churches of the book Revelation. The names of the 7 Churches are simply a way to categorize the doctrine that was being taught at the time and also in the future.
            The “seven age” theory doesn’t fly because in order for this theory to be true each “age” would have had to be specific to the sin mentioned to each Church. In other words the Church of Ephesus was only leaving their first love and they had no other sin.
            This is an overly simplistic theory that doest not work in the “real world”. Of course they had all the other sins that go along with being in the flesh, just as the other Churches would as well.

            >>>This is all about doctrine and makes no mistake about it.

            One must remember that Smyrna and Philadelphia had no faults and were in good standing with the Lord. You want to be in one of these two Churches.

            The other five Churches show a steady progression downward as the believer-leader departs further and further away from the truth. Finally the believer or body of believers enters into the Laodiceian state of mind. Jesus is actually using a modern metaphor in addressing them that most look right over. “Spew you out of my mouth”. In other words; you make me sick to my stomach.

            >But notice this beloved, He never said Get away from Me….Yet

            The Angel or messenger is most likely someone from outside the body of believers who is from the Remnant or the Elect. The messenger will be lead and driven by the Holy Spirit because they have been “called”. They will relay a message of correction or praise from Jesus to the leader or one of the members of the “body” of believers to deliver a message from God. This started back in the beginning of the Church and is going on even more today because we are in the Last Days.

            The messengers are being sent forth all over the world at this moment to warn the Churches of their sin and idolatry.
            Repent!!! Else the Lord takes away your Candle stick!

            There is coming a great shaking in the Church and the modern day Church as you see it will be no more. The modern day super preachers with their mega churches have robbed the coffers of God and have desecrated the temple with their idol worship for long enough. It will end soon and their folly will be exposed as a woman with her skirt over her face.
            Many candlesticks will be removed and these false teachers will be exposed for what they are. Their parishioners will be ripped away from this congregation of lies and deceit and God will forgive His little children.
            But woe unto you pastors and teachers who teach falsely for filthy lucre and lead the children of God astray.
            The false teachers-Leaders from all ages will be the first to be judged in the great white throne judgment.
            Ezekiel 13;
            Speaking to the whole House of Israel of today (USA)
            17 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
            18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
            19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
            20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
            >>>This is a specific reference to the modern day rapture fairy tale. God hates it because it teaches His children to fly away to save their souls.
            >>>No other time in history has the rapture ever been taught. It is the great fake wedding invitation that will lead you straight to the wedding of satan the first groom. Will you be with spiritual child when the true Christ returns?
            21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
            22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
            23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

            How many will ignore the warnings?
            It is my prayer that all will hear and heed….

            MV2015 TheRemnantSeed

          • mark November 16, 2016 at 11:21 am #

            The history of calvary is a very shady one. One of the early founders of calvary was a pot smoking homosexual who had many devils. His name was Lonnie Frisbee.
            He died from complications of aids.
            Chuck compared this man to Samson
            What an insult to Samson.
            This man brought many into calvary in the beginnings.
            Gregg Laurie was one of his students and heavenly influenced by this man.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Frisbee

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 6:46 pm #

            Mark,
            You said “What an insult to Samson.”
            Really? Just how moral does the Bible say Samson was? Not too as I recall.
            I will not defend the man. But, I will defend the doctrines they taught that line up with the scriptures. Like the pre trib rapture and by faith alone.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 14, 2016 at 12:10 pm #

            Here is the definition of a Christian who falls away from the faith. It is already happening. Your claims again are nonsense.
            The great Apostasy
            Falling Away

            The pre tribulation rapture believers are now using 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as a desperate attempt to inject a false premise into the meaning of the great Falling Away or Apostasy.
            Their attempts to claim the words falling away mean rapture or flying away are ridiculous and typical of these fairy tale mongers who believe this false doctrine. Both of the words “falling” and “away” have the same meaning; they both mean Apostasy as if God were actually saying it twice to emphasis the point of the great falling away.
            Pre trib rapture believers mistakenly believe that instead of a “falling away”, they will be “flying away” and raptured at this time and that these scriptures are saying they will be gone from the earth in a great escape.
            This couldn’t be further from the truth, as these scriptures are referring to the appearance of the anti-christ on the earth. Very simply these scriptures are saying: Jesus Christ will not return until after the anti-christ appears, claiming to be god.
            The eminent return of Jesus Christ can not be eminent until after the anti-christ-appears. The rapture believers have completely twisted and contorted this chronology and turned it 180 degrees off to make it fit this fairy tale. They also mistakenly claim that Paul was reassuring believers at the time that the rapture hadn’t happened yet. This is laughable and that is the only way to describe this flawed theology.

            Paul was very simply teaching in his hastily written 2nd letter to the Thessalonians that Jesus would not return until AFTER that wicked man of sin be revealed and the great FALLING AWAY would take place (first) as the whole world would be in danger of worship of the anti-christ like a great WHORE… The anti-christ comes first and then Jesus comes after that and there is no way around this fact.

            Strong’s Concordance # 646 (Falling) Greek word: Apostasia
            apostasia: defection, revolt
            Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: apostasia
            Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee’-ah)
            Short Definition: defection, apostasy
            Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.
            falling away, apostacy
            Feminine of the same as apostasion; defection from truth (properly, the state) (“apostasy”) — falling away, forsake.
            see GREEK apostasion

            Away: Strong’s Concordance# 646 Greek word: Apostasia
            apostasia: defection, revolt
            Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
            Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
            Transliteration: apostasia
            Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee’-ah)
            Short Definition: defection, apostasy
            Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.
            There is no way you get “flying away” from the words “falling away”
            How far will they go to prove a false premise? I have seen it all (almost)
            I have been to countless churches and ignorance is rampant.
            Amos chapter 8. There is a famine in the land for the true word of GOD

            MV 2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 17, 2016 at 12:02 pm #

            Mark,
            “The pre tribulation rapture believers are now using 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as a desperate attempt to inject a false premise into the meaning of the great Falling Away or Apostasy.
            Their attempts to claim the words falling away mean rapture or flying away are ridiculous and typical of these fairy tale mongers who believe this false doctrine.
            Both of the words “falling” and “away” have the same meaning; they both mean Apostasy as if God were actually saying it twice to emphasis the point of the great falling away.”

            Do you even know how they came to this conclusion? They actually make a very interesting point in their research about this verse. Not saying for sure that they are correct, but it comes from real study. Something I see from your “book” you are not accustomed to.
            And the word “falling” and “away” do not mean the same thing. They are actually two very different words. Only when used together as they are here do they mean specifically apostasy.

            “Very simply these scriptures are saying: Jesus Christ will not return until after the anti-christ appears, claiming to be god.”
            This statement shows you have dyslexia.

            “The eminent return of Jesus Christ can not be eminent until after the anti-christ-appears.”
            This comment shows that you can’t pass an elementary school spelling bee. And that you are dyslexic.
            How can Christ’s return be imminent when the scripture tells us to the day when He will return once the trib has started? Anyone who knows the scripture that is here during the trib will know exactly the day Christ will return. And now you know how to spell imminent.

            “They also mistakenly claim that Paul was reassuring believers at the time that the rapture hadn’t happened yet. This is laughable and that is the only way to describe this flawed theology.”
            If this passage was to reassure them that Jesus had not returned yet, instead of the rapture, wouldn’t they be able to confirm that themselves by simply going to where it was being said that he had returned to? Of course they could have confirmed that for themselves. And that is one reason this must be referring to the rapture and not the second coming.
            Who’s laughing now? 😀

            If you could refrain from your childish antics and relate to others with respect and grace you would not be ignored by most at this site. As well as others at other sites I suspect.

            What you are spouting off with here is strictly opinion with zero proof. And not a very educated one. You really need to grow up.

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 10:06 am #

            OK I sense a different spirit behind the writing so now i will take the gloves off.
            Whoever Ed is……. is irrelevant.
            Do you even know how they came to this conclusion? They actually make a very interesting point in their research about this verse. Not saying for sure that they are correct, but it comes from real study. Something I see from your “book” you are not accustomed to.
            And the word “falling” and “away” do not mean the same thing. They are actually two very different words. Only when used together as they are here do they mean specifically apostasy.
            “Very simply these scriptures are saying: Jesus Christ will not return until after the anti-christ appears, claiming to be god.”
            This statement shows you have dyslexia.
            >How do get Christ appears first from this? How can you just ignore Matthew 24;29?
            “The eminent return of Jesus Christ can not be eminent until after the anti-christ-appears.”
            This comment shows that you can’t pass an elementary school spelling bee. And that you are dyslexic.
            >Funny you are now using my tactics. It will not work. You are the one who needs to go back to grade school. Everything you people quote you get it wrong. Ragging on my spellin? Come on man my eyes are bad.

            How can Christ’s return be imminent when the scripture tells us to the day when He will return once the trib has started? Anyone who knows the scripture that is here during the trib will know exactly the day Christ will return. And now you know how to spell imminent.
            “They also mistakenly claim that Paul was reassuring believers at the time that the rapture hadn’t happened yet. This is laughable and that is the only way to describe this flawed theology.”
            If this passage was to reassure them that Jesus had not returned yet, instead of the rapture, wouldn’t they be able to confirm that themselves by simply going to where it was being said that he had returned to? Of course they could have confirmed that for themselves. And that is one reason this must be referring to the rapture and not the second coming.
            Who’s laughing now? 😀
            You are a completely different person than I was debating the other day and you are just as ignorant as he is. Now you have to resort to antics and then claim it the other way around. Why are you imitating me? Im flattered, fluttered. You suspect wrong as usual.
            >In response to laughable? Believers at the time were expecting Christ to come back at any moment.
            >Christ was merely confirming to them that His return could not be “eminent” until after the anti-christ is revealed. How difficult is that to understand? Many thought they had missed His return as well so these scriptures have a twofold meaning.
            If you could refrain from your childish antics and relate to others with respect and grace you would not be ignored by most at this site. As well as others at other sites I suspect.
            What you are spouting off with here is strictly opinion with zero proof. And not a very educated one. You really need to grow up.
            Spewing is more of what I would call your remarks just as Jesus said in Revelation 3:16
            You and yours are part of the church of Laodiceia.

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 1:38 pm #

            Mark,
            Yes, I replied to you in the manner you speak to others, except mine contained a large element of humor. At least to me. And the “different spirit” you speak of is the same spirit that comes through from the way you speak to others. Enough of that childishness.

            You said;
            “>Christ was merely confirming to them that His return could not be “eminent” until after the anti-christ is revealed. How difficult is that to understand? Many thought they had missed His return as well so these scriptures have a twofold meaning.”
            Can we have some scriptural support for this please? You NEVER offer any. Just your opinion.

            Here is what the scripture that speaks to this issue says.
            2Thes.2:7,8- “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
            This happens BEFORE the AC is revealed as you will also see in the next verse here.

            “And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:” See the progression?

            The only difference between what you are saying and what I am saying is that you do not believe the “he who letteth” is the church age believers, and I do. Because of what I believe the church age is designated as (Eph.3:2-5) and what the final discipline for Israel is (Dan.9:24 and Jer.30:7). The time of Jacob’s trouble.
            And because the gates of hell can not prevail against the church, but the AC does. (Mt.16:18 and Rev.13:7)
            There are others but I think you get my point. The differences are clear.

            You said yourself that Jacob represents ALL of Israel. And that is exactly who Jeremiah says are those the trib is for. Not the church age believers, whether they be blood descendants of Israel or not.

            Then you said “Many thought they had missed His return as well so these scriptures have a twofold meaning.”
            If Paul, not “Christ” as you said in your reply, was reassuring them that Christ’s return was not imminent, then why the cause for concern? Would a true Christian be alarmed or worried at the idea that Christ’s return was imminent? Or overjoyed and excited?

            Therefore the idea that he had to assure them that Christ’s return was not imminent can not be the context of his statements here. It can only be that they were anxious because they thought they had missed the rapture. And now there was nothing left to hold back the reign of the AC. Because they uderstood that “he who letteth” was the church. And now the fact that they were left behind to face the AC would lead them to the conclusion that they had never really trusted in Christ.

            This is why Paul made sure they understood what needed to happen before the AC comes to power.
            The only way to understand why this was a big deal to them is to understand that “he who letteth” is the church age believers.

            But when you say this is a salvation deal breaker issue, you are saying that believing wrongly about the timing of the rapture means you are not a Christian. This is not supported in the scriptures. Otherwise Paul would have had to go to the Thessalonians and help them get saved. Instead of simply straightening out this part of his teaching that others were telling them was wrong.

            This issue is not a salvation issue. Therefore Christians can disagree without losing their salvation.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 8:26 pm #

            Really Ed I am worn from trying to help you and I’m done with you and your cohorts.
            The seeds have been planted in your church and they are like hot coals of fire that cannot be put out.
            Yes your organization is about to have its candle stick removed and it is happening we speak.
            broderson is just the beginning.
            You are a shining example of the ignorant people I meet in my travels to the Churches.
            I have heard it all and seen it all.
            When the anti-christ gets a hold of you and others it will be a rupture alright.

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 3:27 pm #

            Howzit Ed
            If we are born again we will not hear a false christ.
            >Then how is it possible for the anti-christ to fool the elect? Why there is so much emphasis on deiced if there is none as you say? It is because it is possible..pure and simple.
            There is no scripture that says what you said here. You have developed this line of thinking by assumption alone. There is no scriptural evidence to support these assumptions. The AC is never referred to as a “fake bride groom”. So your final point here is moot.
            You also said;
            “They will not worship the anti-christ or satan or marry the wrong bride groom. They know the voice of their redeemer and the voice of the fake groom as well. They are wise virgins who have studied to show themselves approved.”
            >Ed there are many esoteric points made to the deeper scholar in the Bible.
            >The word ANTI means “instead of or against” in the deeper meaning. The Greek word even goes to point of definition of being a PHANTOM or an “exact copy”
            >It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that satan will make an attempt to imitate Jesus..
            > Who else do you think he will imitate?
            There is nothing, not one thing in the scripture that supports this. In fact, the scripture never says the 5 foolish virgins lost their virginity. The passage actually says the opposite of what you say here. It says that they ALL, all 10 of them heard of the bride groom coming. “And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then ALL those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.” Mt.25:6,7
            Who do you think showed up at the wedding? It was the 10 virgins of course. Who made it to the wife status? Only the wise virgins did. Where did the foolish virgins go too? It is not mentioned but it is logical to assume they were the ones who were told to get away by Jesus
            >Who do you think happened to them? They did not make it to the wife status as the firstfruits did.
            >You should know the difference between my commentary and the text so that is nonsense.
            You said;
            “Anti-christ is simply the fake christ. No more, no less. He will imitate the real Christ in every way. Many will take him as their husband and lose their virginity as the five foolish virgins did because they did not know the voice of the true Bride Groom. They did not read about the great wedding invitation sent them by almighty God in His Holy Word.”
            There is nothing, not one thing in the scripture that supports this. In fact, the scripture never says the 5 foolish virgins lost their virginity. The passage actually says the opposite of what you say here. It says that they ALL, all 10 of them heard of the bride groom coming. “And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then ALL those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.” Mt.25:6,7
            And as I said before, if we are born again we will not hear a false christ. Never.
            >The wedding is a metaphor. The key to understanding who the anti chrst is –is in the word ANTI.
            Why is this so hard to understand? Phantom Jesus Phantom Christ.
            Who is our groom? Jesus of course. Who is the bribe? Us of course.
            Why would satan not want to play this final part? The fake jesus.
            If you worship him as God you are in big trouble.
            I did not say that this is a salvation issue but fear not He who call kill your carnal body but HIM who can destroy your soul.
            MV

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 6:32 pm #

            Mark,
            The “elect” is not the church age believers.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:01 pm #

            I need to give a lesson on pre destination? Again Ed you got it wrong and here is my study.
            But you have to be aware that there is a dispensation of time that occurred before this one
            The Elect of God

            The elect of God were chosen before the foundation of this world age. They were justified in the first world age or Cosmos. They stood against satan in the great overthrow or rebellion of satan in the first world age.
            >The Greek word for this great rebellion is “Katubol” which means “casting down” or “rebellion”. 1/3 of the children of God actually worshiped satan as god in this great rebellion and 1/3 didn’t care one way or the other but the last 1/3 stood against satan in an epic battle that ended up with God completely wiping out the whole mess and now here we are. We are in the second heaven-earth age and about to enter into the final heaven-earth age.
            Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
            4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
            >The verses above describe this great rebellion of satan in the first world age.
            >The verses below describe who these people are that are alive and well on the earth today. Many think they have an understanding of who these people are but are blind to the truth about the three heaven-earth ages. The elect are the ones that stood against satan in the great rebellion and will do it again in this world age. Elect simply means that they were elected because of what they did in the first world age. It has nothing to do with what you have done in this earth age as many believe. If you are one of Gods election He will let you know for sure as most of us have known from birth who and who’s we are.
            >The election of God has been set aside to do the work of the Lord on the earth. They do not have free will as the rest of Gods children as they are pre-destined by God to carry out His will in the earth.
            >There are special promises to the elect of God in the verses below and to those who would try and harm the elect of God there are special promises for you too
            Romans 11:28
            As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.
            2 John 1:1
            The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
            Luke 18:7
            And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
            Romans 8:33
            Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth
            Romans 11:7
            What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
            1 Thessalonians 1:4
            Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
            Titus 1:1
            Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
            1 Peter 1:2
            Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
            Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
            4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
            5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
            6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
            7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
            8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
            9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
            10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

            >The Elect of God are a peculiar people because they have foreknowledge of the first world age. God has given them special insight into the truth through foreknowledge.

            >Have you ever wondered why God hated Esau even before his birth?
            > Then there are the prophets who were ordained before they were even in their mother’s womb. Remember Jeremiah? Or what about Cyrus?
            God knows what we did in the first world age and these people were judged based on the foreknowledge of God.

            >>>This essay is a public statement of my faith<<My faith that the Lords will be done on earth as it is in heaven to those who would try and harm one of Gods Election.

            MV 10/19/2016 TheRemnantSeed

          • Edwitness November 13, 2016 at 7:40 pm #

            Mark,
            The “elect” is Israel. Romans 9-11.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 13, 2016 at 7:54 pm #

            Who do you think Israel is?
            Your mixed up about the House of Israel and who they are.
            most of the elect just happen to be the literal seed of promise in the carnal sense.
            They were “justified” in the first world age because of their stance against satan.
            Israel would be better rendered in that text Jacob. The whole house

          • Q November 18, 2016 at 6:23 pm #

            Wow! Did this thing go off the rails.

            Edwitness, you are a very patient man and correct.

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 7:02 pm #

            Q,
            Thank you brother/sister? I guess I never considered that you might not be a man:-)

            God is good 😀

            Blessings:-}

          • Q November 18, 2016 at 6:26 pm #

            mark,

            Your posts are to long for this format – most people won’t even read them.

            And the thread has been hijacked from the topic.

          • Edwitness November 18, 2016 at 7:07 pm #

            Q,

            He is reprinting his “book” here because he thinks that way at least someone might read it. That’s why his comments seem so looooong. If you read any of it you have seen that it is long on opinion and short on evidence.

            Blessings:-}

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 8:38 pm #

            Sorry to say you are long on wind and short of @#$*&

            I am gone but the transcript will live on

          • mark November 18, 2016 at 8:36 pm #

            I am done with the warnings.
            have a great life

          • Q November 19, 2016 at 5:30 pm #

            Edwitness, I read very, very little. I did read some of your comments… If he has a book and wants it online he could just post it and leave a link.

            BTW Man.

          • Q November 19, 2016 at 5:35 pm #

            Brother Q 🙂

            (this to meet 15 letter quota)

          • Edwitness November 19, 2016 at 5:59 pm #

            Q,
            God bless you my brother:-D

  19. Jennifer Mason November 8, 2016 at 10:25 am #

    No matter what Brian Broderson proclaims about no divisiveness or one camp against another, out of the mouth the heart speaks. Proverbs 6:12-14
    And here lies the crux of Mr. Broderson’s rebellious heart; pay special attention to the last sentence of the qoute.
    “You know the last 10 years of pastor Chuck’s life in ministry, um, probably almost every sermon on a Sunday was seriously a doom and a gloom message and it was basically the world’s going to hell but the Lord’s coming so just you know buckle your seat belt, hold on and we’re all gonna be out of here. And so once a month I would preach and I would literally get up and try to counter what was happening for the other 3 weeks…”

    It’s not a rebellion against Calvary Chapel or Chuck Smith, Mr. Broderson’s harbors rebellion against God. This type of behavior is typical of men and women whose hearts are in rebelliousness against God.
    It sort of reminds me of the two brothers who had the same father and mother, they were both taught the way of the Lord but one denied God’s prescribed way to honor Him but instead he followed his own way which was ‘the way of Cain.’ (Does this story sounds familiar?)
    Yet, the other brother did that which pleased God; faith coupled with obedience, can’t have one without the other. Hebrews 11:4.

    • Mark M (aka waterdog) November 8, 2016 at 12:57 pm #

      Excellent insight – thank you

    • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 3:12 pm #

      Jennifer…..Good points.

      Plus, Brodersen was just recently on his talk show titled “Things That Matter”(You Tube), discussing CIVILITY in the church among brothers.
      He went into this long diatribe about how too many of us gossip and slander one another.

      Problem is…Brian forgot how he hd just recently slandered and gossipped about Pastor Chuck Smith by calling his sermons ones of Doom and Gloom for three out of the four Sundays and then Brian had to come in on the fourth Sunday and correct everything Chuck had messed up. Brian had to “right the ship” (my words) for Chuck.

      A bit hypocritical I would say to Brian. In fact I wrote this same comment on the You Tube video and challenged Josh Turansky (the show’s moderator) NOT to delete it. Guess what ? It has been deleted.

      Blessings.

      Pastor Robert Trohon
      La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
      Managua, Nicaragua

      • Mark M (aka waterdog) November 13, 2016 at 6:09 pm #

        Pastor and Brother – I so agree with your comments and the heart of them. What Brian said about Pastor Chuck to set up his justification shows the heart of the direction of resigning from CCA. If character and integrity are important to him I would suggest that he start a new work from the bottom and not use the assets and ministry the Lord gave Pastor Chuck, then his break would be clean.

      • Carri February 17, 2017 at 3:53 am #

        Brother Robert, if you are a Calvary Chapel pastor, you shouldn’t be discussing private Calvary matters on a forum/blog like this. Go find another Calvary pastor to talk to. You are slandering a brother in Christ (Brian) without knowing all the facts.

        • Amy Spreeman February 17, 2017 at 4:26 pm #

          Hi Carri, I actually DO know the facts about Brodersen, and he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing who has split your CC movement right down the middle. The proof has already been documented on our site as well as others. I am not going to bring the evidence to you, but suggest you be a Berean and find it yourself. Start here: http://bereanresearch.org/calvary-chapel-women-pulpit/ — and then scroll down to the “Red Flags of Concern” links. You will be quite heartbroken at what you learn. Again, all of this is documented. Do not get angry at those sounding the alarm when your heart should be broken and outraged at how Brodersen has shipwrecked the faith of so many sheep.

          • Amy Spreeman February 17, 2017 at 4:27 pm #

            P.S. Also Robert is not engaging in slander.

          • Kim February 17, 2017 at 6:59 pm #

            Thank you, Amy, for backing me up. I am trying to encourage Carrie to research. I appreciate you told her the same thing.

          • Carri February 18, 2017 at 3:55 am #

            Amy Spreeman, I have done research on the “red flags” people are talking about with regards to Brian. I still don’t see any real evidence; just people jumping to extreme conclusions. Yes, Brian is letting more women be used in places of ministry that traditionally men did. Things like giving the announcements etc. BUT he does not believe women are to be pastors or elders and occupy that position of authority. You’d be surprised at some prominent Pastors like John MacArthur who have had women like Joni Erickson Tada in his pulpit teaching/sharing. I think it is allowed because she isn’t in the place of a Pastor leading the congregation. Our Calvary pastor years ago had Elizabeth Elliot share in his pulpit. We also had a missionary our church supported share in the pulpit. I think all that is fine and still falls in line with complimentarian beliefs.
            I don’t blame Brian from wanting to break away from a group of men trying to control CC and keep it the way Chuck always did it. That is unbiblical. Chuck was not always right in many things, so why copy his mistakes. But many are twisting what is going on and making Brian the scapegoat. Why not look into what the CCA good old boys are doing? Many have resigned, have stepped down due to sin and probably agree with Brian. Brian has not caused this split. It was inevitable.Splits have happened down through the history of the Church and in many ways, it has turned out to be a good thing. A very good thing.

    • Carri February 17, 2017 at 3:58 am #

      Jennifer, you have very faulty reasoning. Your judgment is wrong and based on your imagination and not the facts.Your great swelling words are…………..empty.

  20. Judy November 8, 2016 at 1:06 pm #

    Calvary Chapel is not splitting up – Don’t be divisive!!! Pastor Brian is merely stepping down personally from his leadership role in the Calvary Chapel Association Why would you try to undermine God’s work by publishing this?

    • Edwitness November 9, 2016 at 5:31 pm #

      Judy,
      Brian’s own words were “So although I have resigned from CCA, I will continue to lead…” This keeps him in the leadership position without the accountability he would have as a board member.
      That is not just stepping down from his membership with CCA.

      • Carri February 21, 2017 at 2:28 pm #

        Each Calvary pastor is supposed to be accountable to their own church elders and board not the CCA. The CCA doesn’t want the responsibility to have to handle every church issue or legal liabilities. So to say Brian no longer has accountability is not true. He has his own church board of elders.

  21. Kelly andresick November 8, 2016 at 3:02 pm #

    This does not appear to be a God instructed move. This appears to be man moving on his own….the witness its leaving is destructive and does not glorify God. Scripture is too often misused to justify mans agenda and the tree can’t be seen for the Forest. Chuck was patient man and stuck through a lot of bad stuff but he stayed put and trusted God. That’s the model of man in right position before God.

    • Robert Trohon November 13, 2016 at 3:14 pm #

      Great point Kelly.

      Blessings.

      Pastor Robert Trohon
      La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
      Managua, Nicaragua

    • Carri February 17, 2017 at 3:49 am #

      Kelly, are you forgetting Pastor Chuck broke away from his denomination years before he pastored Calvary Chapel? He too felt restricted by their control. Chuck was a rebel in his day and wanted to be led by the Holy Spirit in his ministry just like Brian does.

  22. Esperanza November 8, 2016 at 3:06 pm #

    Thank you SO much for this! I have been a part of my local Calvary Chapel for 10 years now. There have been things that I have questioned, especially the nepotism and lack of accountability financially but the teaching has always been sound. This past year, I began to notice some serious lack of discernment issues, the direction of our Worship team (running headlong after Bethel/Hillsong), and an overall lack of passion in our Pastors teaching.

    I wrote an email to one of our Pastors a few weeks ago. He has been in the process of meeting with people prior to having a meeting with me. I sent an updated email yesterday regarding Brian Brodersens comments regarding not teaching Old Testament, not “banging the drum” of prophecy, etc. And the chiming in by Daniel Fusco – a personal friend of our pastor. This not wanting to teach the Old Testament only confirmed what I’ve been observing and you and others have been discerning for a while now – the associations with NAR and the false Prosperity Gospel teachers leads these people down this dark path.

    I also noticed when I listened to the audio clip from the Northwest Pastors conference, that the audience erupted in applause when Pastor Sandy Adams defended teaching the entire bible. There was only silence when Brian Brodersen was promoting his bizarre ideas of not teaching from the Old Testament or teaching about prophcy.

    I believe Brian Brodersen was forced to make this seemingly abrupt decision because of the backlash from his teachings at the Northwest Pastors conference.

    I am praying for wisdom for all involved, that they will stick to teaching the whole bible, nothing to do with Chuck Smith, but because it is the only way to teach.

    Thank you so much for faithfully reporting this, especially while enduring “sheep attacks” from people who have idolized Chuck Smith, Brian Brodersen and Calvary Chapel as a whole.

    May God bless you and strengthen you!

    • Jerod November 9, 2016 at 3:15 am #

      Sounds …. familiar. Would love to know where you fellowship, we may know one another. Then again, maybe not.

  23. CG November 8, 2016 at 8:11 pm #

    He says at the end of the letter that this is NOT a call to choose sides. Why then is it stated that he’s calking on like-minded pastors to follow him in the intro? Berean my foot!

  24. Don Steigerwald November 9, 2016 at 1:34 am #

    This article seemed at first informative, only to turn harshly as a hit piece against Broderson. May God have mercy upon your soul. (He will, He always does.) Peacemakers are not peacekeepers. Broderson seems to have taken the path of peacemaker by his decision. I believe that’s Godly, therefore, good, so i applaud his brave move and support it.

  25. Anon November 9, 2016 at 1:57 pm #

    https://banelitheshortpolock.wordpress.com/2014/08/

    Anybody else feel like this?

    • Robert Trohon November 9, 2016 at 3:40 pm #

      A lot of truth in what your referenced article says, ANON. It is frustrating to not find a true, brotherly-loving church, where deep relationships can be established. But those churches are out there. Have you tried looking for one, or prayed for one?..I pray our great God will assist you and your family in finding one. Blessings.

      Pastor Robert Trohon
      La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
      Managua, Nicaragua

      Facebook: Robert Trohon

      • Jerod November 13, 2016 at 12:00 pm #

        Yeah, that’s all of us, it’s, how we treat each other. I pray the places where we are can become what we need.

      • Jerod November 13, 2016 at 4:43 pm #

        I will say though the writer seems to have been dealing with resentment. I really should have been more careful before I posted the link. Thanks anyway.

        Jerod

  26. noel rochford November 10, 2016 at 2:21 pm #

    Yes trying to find a church OUT THERE is quite a task . I was a saint who fellowshiped and leader a husband a father and a BROTHER in CHRIST who only wanted to serve the LORD in SPIRIT AND TRUTH.. Some 33yrs now . So to all those who will follow the WAY of the LORD. In the beggining at PENTECOST the first CHURCH. New Test GENISES a NEW WAY spoken by the PROPHETS always promised by THE GOD OF ALL ISRAEL not only to the JEWS but also the GENTILES with the preaching of PAUL. All who spoke truth were persecuted and KILLED. All being dead but still SPEAKS / SPEAKS /SPEAKS. ECL 3 states SEASONS my bretheren for every purpose under HEAVEN. Read MT24. LO he is here there every where BELIEVE THEM NOT . Adressed by CHRIST himself on last days TIMES and SEASONS. BUT for the ELECTS SAKE????? what is his answer. HE has to Cut it short. Or amplified AMPUTATE IT because they could be DECIEVED ALSO.?????IF POSSIBLE. We have to ask ourselves like when MOSES DREW THE LINE for ISRAEL. Come and stand here with ME or over there with the dissenters most were LEADERS then .It is Known as KORAS rebellion. It didnt go well for them niether will IT NOW. Please read the book of JUDE. SELAH every one.

  27. Robert Trohon November 12, 2016 at 2:07 am #

    Hi Calvary Chapel Guys and Gals !
    God bless you all, my brothers and sisters.

    I am going with Calvary Chapel Association (CCA), not the Calvary Chapel Global Network.

    I would like to know:

    1. Who will be our new “leader?” (other than God of course.)
    2. How can we send donations to the CCA to start building up funds that we seem to be losing as Brian Brodersen and CCCosta Mesa split off?
    3. Are we going to have a new name? (What about —-The Way?…kinda joking, sorta, but not really)
    4. Is anyone on our side of the fence actually approving the Whosoevers? (sorry Pastor Raul Ries) After some significant research on them, I have to say I am quite hesitant to give them my stamp of approval. Although this point is not a deal-breaker for me and my committment to CCA.

    May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with us all.

    Pastor Robert Trohon
    La Via-The Way (Calvary Chapel)
    Managua, Nicaragua

    Facebook: Robert Trohon

  28. noel rochford November 12, 2016 at 2:33 pm #

    To Robert. Paul spoke of another GOSPEL didnt he already in the first PENTECOSTALS .JEW and GENTILE well we all should know how that came about the CIVIL wars that came from a divided house of ALL ISRAEL . Rember that SOLOMON had held all the workers ORDAINED to build the TEMPLE of WORSHIP for all of ISRAEL not just JUDAH / LEVI +a half TRIBE…The imposed work forcekept on building more and more and more untill the PROBLEM as 1 said ISRAEL TO YOUR HOUSES we have no part in JUDAH . But the had a way out of this if they went to the old men what should we do.JERABOAM/ REABOAHM then he the KING went and asked the young men WRONG MOVE for ALL CONCERNED the WHOLE HOUSE OF ISRAEL here at this moment. They should have listened to the OLDIES MESSAGE they chose not to .If you want read 1 KNG12/10 2CHR 10/10 .The division then caused IDOL WORSHIP ON BOTH SIDES EVENTUALLY. The northen tribes were taken into captivity and dispersed and JUDAH followed soon after into BABYLON because they did not follow GOD and his PROPHETS a bit like what is going down today IN “CHRISTIANITY” global. A ??? or 2 GOD/ ADAM then GOD + ADAM/ EVE then GOD+ ADAM+EVE . THEN LUCIFER+EVE- ADAM then GOD – ADAM+EVE +LUCIFER======ls what DIVISION causes seperation HEY. LOOK at CAIN /ABEL division here also . Then ALPHA now OMEGA are we ready for the new ALPHA . PRAISE GOD for his steadfastness and longsuffering for HUMANITY has a time of reconing. IF JUDGEMENT STARTS FIRST IN THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD HOW THEN IS THE SINNER SAVED . 1 PT 4/7. TIME IS COME. No different in EZEKIELS TIME . GOD STARTED IN HIS TEMPLE to get 7000 who didnt bow their knee to BAAL. If he did it then he will do it NOW for the ELECT in MT24 . ALL of the OLD TES is only a SHADOW of how GOD is raising up his people of NOW. Read about GOD dealing with disobedience and rebellion EXAMPLES to us the CHURCH TODAY admonishments all of them. NOW concerning DISIPLINE .A loving FATHER will disipline a SON and DAUGHTER because he LOVES THEM now he shows us his LOVE and what pleases him will we take his correction. DIVISION comes not from GOD but the ACCUSER. WAKE UP TO HIS PURPOSES. PAUL said WE ARE NOT \ ignorant / to his DEVICES this is his TIME to work DECEPTION. STAND FOR GOD OR FALL FOR WHAT??????? SELAH.

  29. Jerod November 13, 2016 at 4:26 pm #

    So there have been a few folks reading my comments here who I fellowship with.

    No one has rebuked me, but God’s Holy Spirit has convicted me.

    I apologize and repent for my passive aggressive self aggrandizement. That has become clear to me (with the help of my wife) that some of what I have written on these pages has come from hurt, from uneasiness and worry over my children’s future – pride takes over and tells me I can handle my problems… in an online forum with faceless strangers. Kinda sad, really.

    I trust our pastor at or local Calvary. Yet spiritual warfare is very real and very subtle. Our church is dealing with the serpent who beguiles, coming through some of the worship and some folks who have gone into serious, even heretical, doctrinal error. I got a lot of backstory, and some very real assurances of our pastor’s stance on this issue. For most of us who attend our fine congregation, I can assure you it is what we’ve been praying for.

    We must pray for our pastor. He should not have to prove anything to us. We are each accountable to God to uphold, exhort and encourage one another. We will be held accountable for each idle word we communicate, for every thought we failed to take captive. I have been idle, he has not, as far as I can tell. So, friend, if you read this before I speak to you, please forgive me. There is nothing worth dividing over.

    I cannot repent for calling for Brian Brodersen to step down, though I am pretty sure my effort was impotent. I am thankful he made the decision for the CCA himself. The direction he has gone in regard to bible exposition and teaching is wrong. I don’t question his salvation. He is a brother. But he seems very confused or in rebellion. Not fit to lead 1600 churches into a time the Bible tells us will be more deceptive and persecuting than any in history. In the face of the Dragon, we need Elijahs, not Eliashibs.

    Thank you Robert Trahon.
    Your encouragement has helped immensely.

    Unplugging in the name of Jesus

    Jerod

  30. David Gifford January 21, 2017 at 11:15 pm #

    You really need to abandon the church service approach with the same alacrity that you would flee the Catholic Mass approach.

    Neither have been set up or commanded by God. As for the church service ritual, what we’ve come up with today is an exact duplication of the synagogue system that the Pharisees came up with long, long ago.

    We see what happened to Israelites after being marinated in this ritualistic pursuit of God for so long: utter spiritual blindness.

    The Messiah came to them, and they couldn’t even recognize Him! But for a handful, the entire nation…all of whom had “grown up in church”…had no idea Who He was. Furthermore, they rejected Him and handed the Lord of Life over to be killed…the ultimate blindness.

    There were thousands of men with degrees in Theology or PhDs in Divinity in Jesus’ time…how strange that He did not choose even ONE of them when He chose the 12. Funny that the modern day Western protestant church INSISTS on these academic qualifications, yet Jesus did not.

    Oh, yes, He did choose one Pharisee…Paul…but what happened there? This Pharisee declared the entire system he came out of to be, literally, garbage.

    The fact is that you are ALL blind, or nearly so. There are many of you who see people like trees walking around…better than being blind, true, but so far to go.

    ABANDON this nonsense. Leave the synagogue of the modern day Western protestant church. Ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you personally. Get to know Him intimately. See if what I am telling you is true or not.

    I can tell you it IS true, and I know this because He has taught me Himself. Cease crying out for a suitable Pastor to lead you. There isn’t but One Pastor, and that’s the King: Jesus Christ. You have HIM to lead you.

    Wait on Him, be open to Him, seek Him while He may be found. I can tell you personally that He loves chatting with and spending time with us, and that it exasperates Him to be getting a lot of lists.

    Repent of this Phariseeism and cling to Jesus alone, listen to Him, follow Him, and you will be surprised that the believers you find who have followed Him for decades and have never considered church services and catholic mass something to be entertained, but rather so much straw.

    • Edwitness January 22, 2017 at 2:43 am #

      David,
      I think you might be onto something here. When you think about some of the things Paul told Timothy it makes you wonder how close to the early church are the church services today?
      When Paul taught that women were to be silent in church, why didn’t he say anything to the men? Could it be that church was done in such a way that the men were expected to be talking with each other while the women listened? That because the men were the head of the family it was their duty to participate through discussion? Which is my understanding of what real fellowship is anyway. Then Paul instructed the women to learn at home from their husbands.
      When Paul told Timothy to not allow the older men in the fellowship to despise his youth, is it possible that when the believers were gathered together, the discussion that was part of how they did church had sometimes reflected this view of Timothy by them?
      What did Jesus tell the disciples about who was the leader of the group? Didn’t He say that for them to be great in God’s kingdom they must be the servant of all? Does it seem like serving when the pastor takes the highest seat while everyone else is to be silent?
      Just a few questions that come to mind when considering the early church’s practice of fellowship when compared to what we have come up with. I know I have had many questions when listening to the preacher. And I know I learn better when in a discussion than a lecture format. Just sayin’.
      Blessings:-}

    • noel rochford January 22, 2017 at 10:31 pm #

      Hey i am a AUSSIE wondering the same thing about the Ecclasia / CHRISTOS / annointed seperated called out ones SAINTS in the beggining it was called the WAY. CHRIST said i am the way++++++++. Now in the last days mth 24. Christ warns about many coming in his name and DECIEVING MANY the lying signs and WONDERS are all around us take heed the ELECT even we could be decieved but CHRIST will intrvene for the overcomers here and now children of GOD loved by the FATHER .SELAH.

  31. Joe July 2, 2017 at 5:19 am #

    I wanted to add to your long message discussions that my one favorite thing with others about Calvary Chapel is the bookstores they have or had that I still would go to in a second if I can . I love to read solid Christian literature as a believer !! I bought books years ago at their bookstores , one at one college location they had and if there is any information about their stores ( not the online kinds ) please feel free to share it with me if you can .I like to read , because I can focus on God’s Word and things associated with that focus on it . / Joe , just a brother Christian that is looking to Jesus coming again !

  32. Philip Blottenberger July 15, 2017 at 10:38 pm #

    I listen to Hope FM 97.5 FM in Baltimore. Thank God for that station which is mostly commercial free and has good preachers that preach the entire bible. Pastor Bill Luebkeman was used by God to build a radio ministry that is used to teach instead of preach.
    I used to listen to Pastors perspective on the way home from work and Brian on that show and I didn’t know that he is no longer faithful. But as I was listening, something in me was saying “this doesn’t sound right, that doesn’t sound right”, but I kept doubting myself. We are OK to disagree on some things for example “is it OK to celebrate Halloween” (which BB is OK and actually had a woman on the program say “we need to pray for those” who teach it’s not OK to have anything to do with Halloween (my thought was “pray for yourself lady”).

    Well now I finally understand. BB has fallen from the faith in some regard. How sad. Thankfully the program has been replace with a biblical one called “calvary live”. Thank you God for helping Pastor Luebkeman see that the Pastors Perspective was no longer a good show.

    When I ponder it all, it just reminds me that the head of the Church is not a man (sorry Peter), and the church will grow as the Spirit moves. May the Lord preserve Hope FM 97.5 a little longer. He knows we need here in this dry place.

    • Louise July 16, 2017 at 12:04 am #

      Brian hasn’t FALLEN from the faith. Don’t believe what you read on every so called discernment blog. Calvary Chapel has spilt is all. The doctrine is the same. It’s just style and methodology that is different. In many ways Brian is trying to fix the problems and imbalances Calvary has had for many years. So give him grace and don’t prematurely judge him without knowing the real facts.

      • Manny1962 July 16, 2017 at 8:39 am #

        Have you read the posts here? Brodersen is not preaching the unvarnished Gospels. Since you know the “real” facts, could you please outline them? What are the “imbalances’ you speak of? Thanks!

        • Louise July 17, 2017 at 12:16 am #

          No I will not go into the imbalances of Calvary Chapel in the past. That is non productive. This discussion is about Brian and the accusations being thrown against him. People can post all kinds of things about others on these ODM blogs and it doesn’t mean IT’S TRUE! Unfortunately all of you swallow everything you read or hear. Brian wants to reach the younger generation because we are losing them from the Church today. He is outreach oriented which is good. He wants to work with others who are outside Calvary Chapel which is good (as long as they are sound) Do YOU listen to Brian yourself? I do. No I do not attend his church but I listen to his live Sunday morning service and he is teaching verse by verse. He just finished the book of Galatians. I am a well studied Christian and I have good discernment. So far, Brian has NOT taught anything unbiblical. In fact, he has really grown in grace which is always a real shifting point. Be careful that you are not guilty of judging a brother based on falsehoods! You can’t trust these discernment blogs! I learned the hard way. They are a mixed bag and they can jump to false conclusions. Afterall, it’s only a person. I’ve been in the Calvary circles for many years and have seen alot of things go on through the years. I’m not gonna vouch for everything Brian does but he is still teaching the Bible verse by verse, both old and new testaments and is sound in his teaching. Listen to him yourself and discern it yourself. You may be surprised.

          • Kim July 17, 2017 at 1:31 pm #

            You need to look up youtube videos so you can see and hear things come out of his mouth.
            For me, this is not a pointing blame game. This is a true concern. He is following in Rick Warrens direction who is on board with the one world church. What does the Bible say about the one world church? New age tools have been brought into the church By ways of books, seminars, certain people at conferences. You need to read the book By Dr. David Newton; Entertaining Deception. The forward was written by Ricky Ryan. You can get it on Amazon. Read the book, see what it explains. I understand you want to be as optimistic as possible, believing in a Pastor. But what does it say in Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. Who is the elect? What is happening at Costa Mesa is trickling down to other CC’s. The evil must stop. Don’t look at this as an attack, research what materials are being used. Who are the people Brian hangs with? You need to look at the whole picture, not just at Brian. There is a lot of new age influence coming into CC’s all over. Some of these pastors have pulled out because they don’t want anything to do with Calvary Chapel GLOBAL Network. What do you think global means? Not out reach in the way you are thinking…out reach to bring the church to Rome. Research Research Research!!!

          • Louise July 18, 2017 at 4:19 pm #

            You are jumping to false conclusions about Brian’s use of the word Global. Come on! Brian knows better to be this so called leader into Rome that he’s accused of! He came OUT of RC. Just because he might do things with other people outside CC doesn’t mean he agrees with everything they teach. That is addressed in this video: https://calvarychapel.com/resources/article/view/things-that-matter-rick-warren-on-the-controversies-surrounding-his-life-and-ministry/

            And yes, I have been listening to the things he says and I’m reading the book Entertaining Deception. I’m not sure I can trust the author though. Just looking at the chapters; Specifically chapter 8 Challenging Calvary Distinctives. Really?!! So if someone doesn’t line up with those distinctives they are off?? This is where Calvary has been very narrow minded and proud. So yes, not sure I trust the Author of this book, but I will read it and discern. When you’re a missionary, you learn quickly that there is a broader work of God outside Calvary CHapel and that is it healthy to work with other Christians (as long as they are sound) For those who have never been a missionary, this may be hard for them to understand. Because both Brian and myself have been missionaries, we get it. Please listen to the video link I posted.

          • Kim July 18, 2017 at 4:49 pm #

            I already saw that video. If you look up other ones, Rick answers those questions differently. Rick is all for the Ecumenical Church. Why is he buddies with he Pope? Do you know where the Pope and the Catholic church are with ecumenism? If not, read up on that. A Good Person to Check out and listen to is Pastor Billy Crone if you want to gain knowledge on the Catholic Church and Rome and where they fit into the end times. Also, about all the cults and New Age information.
            Pastor Billy Crone can be found on youtube and also at his ministry “Get a life Ministry.”
            I understand there are different ways of teaching, but what my concern is, the root of the education. We have to look deeper then what the Pastor is saying. Sometimes they have not looked further and checked out the material they have chosen to use to teach others. What does God say? Watch! If you are not watching for yourself and loved ones, no one else is watching for you. Just do some more research. Don’t get so defensive. I have read up on all this stuff. I have researched for myself. I didn’t just go with hearsay. I found my own information. Check out Lighthouse Trails Research or Berean Research. You will see many things. Pray and open your heart to the truth, even when it hurts. I have discovered more than I wanted too, and I have grieved over some of them. What is happening now days is not fun or pretty, but we must be alert and watch!!

  33. Manny1962 July 18, 2017 at 8:03 pm #

    One thing I know and have seen regarding Rick Warren, he adjusts his answers to his audience. He’s duplicitous without doubt. Why would Brodersen be friends with Warren? What does scripture say about those that falsely teach scripture?

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